Supersessionism and Antisemitism

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
Hebrews 8


1Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. 4Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “SEE,” He says, “THAT YOU MAKE all things ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN WHICH WAS SHOWN YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN.” 6But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.



A New Covenant

7For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

8For finding fault with them, He says,
“BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,
WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT
WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;

9NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS
ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND
TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT;
FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT,
AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD.

10“FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS,
AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS.
AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD,
AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

11“AND THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERYONE HIS FELLOW CITIZEN,
AND EVERYONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, ‘KNOW THE LORD,’
FOR ALL WILL KNOW ME,
FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.

12“FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES,
AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE.”

13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
the Hebrew passage simply states that the Mosaic covenant is inferior and is passing away (present tense, not past tense). In both cases, the "New Covenant" referred to is future and not present. For example, everyone will know God. Does everyone know God right now????? Nope.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,790
✟322,365.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
the Hebrew passage simply states that the Mosaic covenant is inferior and is passing away (present tense, not past tense). In both cases, the "New Covenant" referred to is future and not present. For example, everyone will know God. Does everyone know God right now????? Nope.
Why would everyone need to know God right now? There were from the beginning those who had all the proof and God in front of them that still chose not to believe.

Also, if you cannot see that the same was written about much earlier in Jeremiah and that these verses are very clear. This is the Messiah that was promised to bring in the New Covenant that God had been promising.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
Why would everyone need to know God right now? There were from the beginning those who had all the proof and God in front of them that still chose not to believe.
Rabbinical Jews do not choose not to believe in Yeshua. They are blinded by God.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,790
✟322,365.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Rabbinical Jews do not choose not to believe in Yeshua. They are blinded by God.
Well I do agree that a remnant of Israel will be saved, now what the 'remnant' exactly is and who it includes I do not profess to know.

But then the Jews during Jesus days that did not believe are I'm not sure considered that remnant because their eyes were blinded and the time of the gentiles came to be because they did not believe, so I'm sure God considers it to be an issue. Not believing in the covenant that was pre-promised by God way back in Jermemiah and Isaiah.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
I just found this thread.

Every religion has their own beliefs and way of worship.
I believe some of those who are antisemitic are actually more against the practice of Judaism by converted Christians

Proselyte is an interesting study in itself, and is only mentioned 4 times in the NT, 3 of those in Acts:
[I may create a thread on that when time allows]


Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"proselyte"
occurs 2 times in 2 verses. 1 time each in Gospels and Acts
Matthew 23:15
'Woe to ye, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
because ye go round the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte,
and whenever it may happen -- ye make him a son of gehenna twofold more than yourselves
.

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"proselytes"
occurs 2 times in 2 verses, both in Acts:
Acts 2:10
“Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene,
visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,

Here is some info on the topic at these sites, relating more to Christianity than outside of it:

Christianity and antisemitism - Wikipedia
Jewish converts

See also: Jews for Jesus
The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), the largest Protestant Christian denomination in the U.S., has explicitly rejected suggestions that it should back away from seeking to convert Jews, a position which critics have called antisemitic, but a position which Baptists see as consistent with their view that salvation is found solely through faith in Christ.
In 1996 the SBC approved a resolution calling for efforts to seek the conversion of Jews "as well as for the salvation of 'every kindred and tongue and people and nation.'"

Most Evangelicals agree with the SBC position, and some have been supporting efforts specifically seeking Jews' conversion. At the same time these groups are among the most pro-Israeli groups. (For more, see Christian Zionism.)
Among the controversial groups that have found support from some Evangelical churches is Jews for Jesus, which claims that Jews can "complete" their Jewish faith by accepting Jesus as the Messiah.

Throughout the 19th century and into the 20th, the Roman Catholic Church still incorporated strong antisemitic elements, despite increasing attempts to separate anti-Judaism (opposition to the Jewish religion on religious grounds) and racial antisemitism. Pope Pius VII (1800–1823) had the walls of the Jewish ghetto in Rome rebuilt after the Jews were emancipated by Napoleon, and Jews were restricted to the ghetto through the end of the Papal States in 1870.
Official Catholic organizations, such as the Jesuits, banned candidates "who are descended from the Jewish race unless it is clear that their father, grandfather, and great-grandfather have belonged to the Catholic Church" until 1946.

Brown University historian David Kertzer, working from the Vatican archive, has argued in his book The Popes Against the Jews that in the 19th and early 20th centuries the Roman Catholic Church adhered to a distinction between "good antisemitism" and "bad antisemitism".
The "bad" kind promoted hatred of Jews because of their descent. This was considered un-Christian because the Christian message was intended for all of humanity regardless of ethnicity; anyone could become a Christian.
The "good" kind criticized alleged Jewish conspiracies to control newspapers, banks, and other institutions, to care only about accumulation of wealth, etc.
Many Catholic bishops wrote articles criticizing Jews on such grounds, and, when they were accused of promoting hatred of Jews, they would remind people that they condemned the "bad" kind of antisemitism.
Kertzer's work is not without critics. Scholar of Jewish-Christian relations Rabbi David G. Dalin, for example, criticized Kertzer in the Weekly Standard for using evidence selectively.

Anti-Judaism - Wikipedia
Anti-Judaism

"The terms 'anti-Judaism' (the Christian aversion toward the Jewish religion) and 'anti-Semitism' (aversion toward the Jews as a racial group) are omnipresent in the controversies over the churches' responsibility with regard to the extermination of the Jews" and "since 1945, most of the works on 'anti-Semitism' have contrasted this term with 'anti-Judaism'".[53][54]

According to Jeanne Favret-Saada, the scientific analysis of the links and difference between both terms is made difficult for two reasons. First is the definition: some scholars argue that anti-Judaic refers to Christian theology and to Christian theology only while others argue that the term applies also to the discriminatory policy of the churches [...]. Some authors also advance that eighteenth-century catechisms were "antisemitic" and others argue that the term cannot be used before the date of its first appearance in 1879. The second difficulty is that these two concepts place themselves in different contexts: the old and religious for the anti-Judaism' the new and political for anti-Semitism.[53]

In the Reformation
See also: Martin Luther and the Jews
Martin Luther has been accused of antisemitism, primarily in relation to his statements about Jews in his book On the Jews and their Lies, which describes the Jews in extremely harsh terms, excoriating them, and providing detailed recommendation for a pogrom against them and their permanent oppression and/or expulsion. According to Paul Johnson, it "may be termed the first work of modern anti-Semitism, and a giant step forward on the road to the Holocaust".[50] In contrast, Roland Bainton, noted church historian and Luther biographer, wrote "One could wish that Luther had died before ever this tract was written. His position was entirely religious and in no respect racial".[51]

Peter Martyr Vermigli, a shaper of Reformed Protestantism, took pains to maintain the contradiction, going back to Paul of Tarsus, of Jews being both enemy and friend, writing: "The Jews are not odious to God for the very reason they are Jews; for how could this have happened since they were embellished with so many great gifts...."[52]

Antisemitism - Wikipedia

Religious antisemitism
See also: Anti-Judaism, Christianity and antisemitism, and Islam and antisemitism
Religious antisemitism, also known as anti-Judaism, is antipathy towards Jews because of their perceived religious beliefs.
In theory, antisemitism and attacks against individual Jews would stop if Jews stopped practicing Judaism or changed their public faith, especially by conversion to the official or right religion.
However, in some cases discrimination continues after conversion, as in the case of Christianized Marranos or Iberian Jews in the late 15th century and 16th century who were suspected of secretly practising Judaism or Jewish customs.............................

Execution of Mariana de Carabajal (converted Jew), accused of a relapse into Judaism, Mexico City, 1601

Although the origins of antisemitism are rooted in the Judeo-Christian conflict, other forms of antisemitism have developed in modern times.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LLoJ
Upvote 0