Supersessionism and Antisemitism

[jerry kelso]

Chapter and verse. Hebrews only says that the New Covenant is superior.

open heart,

1. I have already shown that the New Covenant has replaced the Old Covenant in more scriptures and why in those contexts for you to understand that the Old Covenant has been replaced by the New.
Remember Roman's 7 and the woman bound to her husband as long as he lives paralleled to being dead to the law and alive to the New. The Old and New cannot coexist. Jerry kelso

 

[ToBeLoved]

There is no way to even complete the requirements of the Old Covenant. There is no temple and there is no Levitical priesthood.

People need to understand that a Covenant is the whole of that covenant. Not just pieces pulled out.

A Covenant is a complete agreement. The entire thing. Not pieces here and there, but a complete Covenant in a ll it's statuetes.

 

[Open Heart]

I find it highly unlikely there remains a direct genetic line of descendants from Judah.

Again, you are confusing the People of Israel with somekind of Race (DNA). It is not. It is a People (a tribal kind of thing). Get with the program.

God is reserving the Promised land for The People, not a race.

 

[Open Heart]

1. I have already shown that the New Covenant has replaced the Old Covenant in more scriptures

The instance of a woman being bound to her husband is not a metaphor for Israel. It doesn't make your point.

Humor me, since I saw no verses documenting your point. Give me JUST ONE verse where it uses the word REPLACE with regards to the two covenants.

 

[Open Heart]

You don't know what Ruth knew. The understanding of the Messiah was given to Adam and Eve.

No it wasn't. There was no knowledge of Messiah king that would come and bring world wide peace, nor any knowledge give of a Suffering Servant that would die for anyone's sins. THAT's the messiah. Adam didn't have this information and neither did anyone in Ruth's day.

 

[Open Heart]

How did John and Peter know that it was Moses and Elijah standing next to Jesus at the transfiguration?

They were the two greatest prophets, so it made sense. Two plus two.

 

[Open Heart]

No, I don't want to waste my time on this anymore

You NEVER backed up your claim with scripture that a REPLACEMENT occurred. NEVER. You wasted your time from the start.

 

[Open Heart]

There are no rabbis but ONE

Right. And you were never taught by a teacher, and you have no earthly father.

 

[Open Heart]

1. I have already shown

FYI, we usually don't use a 1. unless there is a 2.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Again, you are confusing the People of Israel with somekind of Race (DNA). It is not. It is a People (a tribal kind of thing). Get with the program.

God is reserving the Promised land for The People, not a race.

And who are the people? The promised land people? And scripture for it.

 

[miknik5]

Right. And you were never taught by a teacher, and you have no earthly father.

This response makes absolutely nonsense

 

[miknik5]

GOD has turned the whole world over to disobedience

No one ....no man will be able to profess anything but THE SON

No man will exalt what he has done over THE GIFT of GOD's mercy found in HIS SON

Just as Romans 11 clearly says

 

[jerry kelso]

The instance of a woman being bound to her husband is not a metaphor for Israel. It doesn't make your point.

Humor me, since I saw no verses documenting your point. Give me JUST ONE verse where it uses the word REPLACE with regards to the two covenants.

openheart,

1. Roman's 7:1-4 is about a woman being bound to her husband as longs as he lives.
God made marriage for a lifetime between a man and a woman from the beginning and it was true in Israel's day.
This is paralleled with being dead to the law which was Moses law and the Old Covenant and married to the New Covenant.
One can't be married to the Old Covenant and the New Covenant at the same time otherwise it is spiritual adultery because it is equated with the woman being with her married man and another man outside of that marriage in physical adultery.
That is the context and you have not proved otherwise scripturally or logically but you are welcome to try.

2. Replace? Jeremiah 31:-31-32: Hebrews 8:6-7,9.
A New Covenant not the the Old which was what they received coming out of Egypt.
Galatians shows the allegory of two covenants; one from Mt. Sinai which is bondage Galatians 4:24.
Verse 25; Agar is Mt. Sinai in Arabia and answers to Jerusalem which now is in bondage to her children which was earthly Jerusalem who was bound by the law by being blinded by the reading of the Old Covenant 2 Corinthians 3:15-16.
Even Roman's 6:1-2 talks about leaving the principles of the teachings of Christ (Old Covenant Mosaic law teachings under the KoH and the KoG message).
There doesn't have to be a plain statement with the word "replaced" in it! All these contexts are reconcilable to each other with the main understanding of the New Replacing the Old.
Can you show me where it says the New Covenant is said to be a modification or a mere extension of the Old Covenant?

3. I agree that the law was forever for the Jews and it will be in the Millennial kingdom but it will still be under the New Covenant of Law and it's standard of the Cross and not Moses law or Ethic which temporary.

4. You need to show the scriptures plainly for your position and properly rebut what scriptures and context I have shown or else I would have to conclude you may not have a leg to stand on.

5. Why are so bent on believing you are under the Mosaic law. I have already proved by scripture that the law of Moses came because of transgressions and was till the seed should come, was fulfilled by Christ and then abolished at the Cross and all you have done is merely disagreed. What little scripture you've given has not rebutted any I have given.
Humor you? No, but I would like to see a little more fairness in your hermeneutical renderings of the scripture.
I suspect you may be hung up on one track of belief without really knowing it and that will lead you astray from complete exegesis faster than train can puff choo-choo.
I am not trying to be hard nose or contrary or whatever else you may think.
I have already told you that not believing in Moses law doesn't mean you can't be a Jew or that you can't practice Judaism culturally.
Maybe we need to get into the specifics of each commandment and how you perform them and the motive behind it. I am curious to know. Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

FYI, we usually don't use a 1. unless there is a 2.

1. What does that have to with the price of eggs in China?
Did Jewish scriptures have chapters? Btw I have given 2 and more scriptural witnesses as spiritual truth. Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

And who are the people? The promised land people? And scripture for it.

tobeloved,

1. In short, the promised land people is the nation of Israel. Genesis 12:1-3.

2. Make of thee a great nation to Abraham was the nation of Israel and in this nation the families of the earth would be blessed.
Genesis 12:6; at Sichim unto the plain of Moreh where the Canaanites lived.
Verse 7&8 Bethel and Ai and verse 9; towards the south.
Genesis 15:18-21; from the river of Egypt to Euphrates, the Kenites, the Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittitites, the Perrizzites, Rephaims, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and the Jebusites.
All these lands would go to the nation who was birthed as Israel and through Abraham's seed of Israel the families of the earth would be blessed and as the sand of the sea. This is Israel's earthly calling in the millennial KoH and on and on when God becomes all in all.
These promises were confirmed to his son the Patriarch Isaac Genesis 26:1-4 and his grandson Jacob Genesis 28:10:15.
Jesus said to the Jews under the law in the Sermon on the Mount; Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth. This was talking about the KoH reign on earth.
Isaiah 2:2-4; the endtime prophecy of the mountain of the Lord Jacob's house is Israel who will be the capital of the whole earth for out of Zion shall go forth the law and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
This promise of the land for Israel is along with the KoH reign on earth with David 2 Samuel 7:5-13; 1 Chronicles 28:2:8; Isaiah 9:6-7, etc.
Matthew 4:17; Repent for the KoH is at hand.

3. Revelation 7:3-8 is about the sealed 144,000 of the tribes of Israel verse 4. Only synomonous with the nation of Israel and out of their seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
They are tribal and a physical nation and an individual race.
This earth is the human race of which you are either of a Jew or Gentile race.
Red and Yellow, Black and White and Brown etc are basically Gentiles no matter where they come from.
Jews are olive skin but they are an ethnic race blood wise. Then you get into mixed Jews because of being intermixed with Gentiles because being scattered throughout the nations down through the years.

4. The Jewish nation is promised the specific land for the specific KoH reign on earth.
The time of Jacob's trouble is familiar with Israel in which they have to be purged in order to enter the KoH reign. Jesus offered them the KoH and they rejected his KoG (spiritual aspect) concerning salvation of their hearts. The second time they will receive Christ when Christ all the saints of every age including the raptured and resurrected earthly Jewish and gentile tribulation saints Revelation 4:1; 4:10; 5:9-10; 7:9-17; are saved by Christ and his Heavenly saints come back to rescue the nation of Israel Revelation 19:11-15 when Christ takes all the earthly kingdoms on earth and makes them his at the battle of Armageddon at the Day of the Lord Revelation 11:15; 16:16.

5. The Abrahamic covenant recorded the earthly calling of Israel as well as bringing forth the Messiah for the world in the act of salvation.

6 1 Timothy 1:4; neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies which minister questions.
This doesn't mean that genealogies is not important or not be discussed at all but the extremes.
Malachi 4:5 says, Elijah will be sent before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the Lord.
Jesus said, Elijah surely shall first come and restore all things Matthew 17:11. This was in response to the Pharisees question about the real Elijah coming back before the great and dreadful Day of the Lord Malachi 4:5. He agreed with them.
His point about John the the Baptist being the forerunner of Christ and in the spirit of Elijah to turn the hearts of the children to the father and help them recognize the Messiah John 1:29:31. Just as they got rid of John the Baptist the Son of man would suffer dying as well Matthew 17:12.

7. Elijah will be one of the two witnesses in Revelation 11 is said to be the ones to help with who belongs to what tribe.
Either way, the nation of Israel who is the sun clothed woman of Revelation 12 is preserved in the wilderness through the time of Jacob's trouble and the remnant is scattered and the remnant is seen watching the two witnesses being resurrected and praising God in Revelation 11. The tribes are not lost, God knows. Jerry kelso

 

[ToBeLoved]

The instance of a woman being bound to her husband is not a metaphor for Israel. It doesn't make your point.

I don't think it is per se a metaphor for Israel, but it is the example given for how someone is freed from an obligation, which was written to show how freedom from the law is obtained through Christ. That is the entire reason for that chapter.

You must learn to objectively read scripture without putting your own spin on the words or meaning. You are reading it as what you want it to say, not what it says.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You NEVER backed up your claim with scripture that a REPLACEMENT occurred. NEVER. You wasted your time from the start.

Why are you looking for that specific word 'replacement'?

I think 'obsolete' is a much more powerful word. It shows gone, not to be ever brought back. Finished. That is the word I would look for if I were you. Study what that word is.

 

[miknik5]

I think returned (to the ONE it belonged to from the beginning) is even better

 

[jerry kelso]

I don't think it is per se a metaphor for Israel, but it is the example given for how someone is freed from an obligation, which was written to show how freedom from the law is obtained through Christ. That is the entire reason for that chapter.

You must learn to objectively read scripture without putting your own spin on the words or meaning. You are reading it as what you want it to say, not what it says.

tobeloved,

1. Sorry but you should read closer. God gave woman for man in a relationship in the beginning and actual contractual marriage.
Matthew 5:31-32; It hath been said, whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, cause th her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. This agrees with Romans 7:1-4 and Jesus taught the law of Moses to the Jews and the context is about the law of Moses.
One has to learn how to connect the dots by reconciling the scriptures properly on the subject.

2. Some say it is talking about being Roman law?
Why? Because it was written to the Roman church and they lived in Rome.
The Roman's had nothing was not under the Mosaic law which is the context of Roman's 7.
Either way it would not matter in the actual point which is being dead to the Old Covenant of law context and alive to the New Covenant of Christ finished work at Calvary.

3. We agree on the main point of not being obligated to the Old Covenant context.

4. You made an accusation that I am just spinning but never said what you thought I was spinning.
I guess your implication of not Israel per say might be what you think I am spinning.
I have shoe the scriptures to prove it is all related and how it relates to it.
You can disagree but you cannot scripturally rebut what the scriptures say about it that I have shown. You are free to try.
BTW, when I post it is a no spin zone. Jerry kelso

 

[ToBeLoved]

tobeloved,

2. Some say it is talking about being Roman law?
Why? Because it was written to the Roman church and they lived in Rome.
The Roman's had nothing was not under the Mosaic law which is the context of Roman's 7.
Either way it would not matter in the actual point which is being dead to the Old Covenant of law context and alive to the New Covenant of Christ finished work at Calvary.

I am talking about political things. The political law followed by all the people living in Rome.

Jesus said to follow all the laws of the land.