Supersessionism and Antisemitism

[AlexDTX]

Chapter and verse where God explains that he will void the covenant if X, Y, or Z.

You live by the letter of the law you will die by it.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Getting back to Ruth, who union was with the promise of Messiah, not the Mosaic law, although she lived under the Mosaic law just as Jesus did. Jesus never regarded the Jews as his family simply because they were related in the flesh, rather he regarded all who trusted in him as the Messiah as his family.

Preach brother!

 

[ToBeLoved]

You live by the letter of the law you will die by it.

and be judged according to it as so chosen.

 

[AlexDTX]

A Messianic Rabbi once taught me that the Messiah, being a Jew himself, is present in every synagogue, but just as Joseph was present among his brothers but not recognized, so Jesus will not be recognized among his brethren the Jews until he chooses to reveal himself.

Since Jesus is Yahweh and is ominpresent, that statement is meaningless. Jesus is also present at every mosque, hindu shrine, and satanic ritual. He longs and is working towards everyone and anyone to believe in his salvation.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

It settles it for all who want to believe this.

The disputed theory centers on the presumed mass conversion to Judaism of the Khazars — an extinct multiethnic kingdom that included Iranians, Turks, Slavs and Circassians — in the eighth century. Largely unsupported by genetic studies, it is popular in anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist literature because it is seen to dispel the notion of Jewish peoplehood, presenting it as a hoax.

There is great genetic similarity between Ashkenazim and the Jews of Rome, who came from the Land of Israel and later from the Mediterranean. In no way can the same explanation of the origins of the Jews in Europe (the Khazar theory) apply to the Jews of Rome.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The disputed theory centers on the presumed mass conversion to Judaism of the Khazars — an extinct multiethnic kingdom that included Iranians, Turks, Slavs and Circassians — in the eighth century. Largely unsupported by genetic studies, it is popular in anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist literature because it is seen to dispel the notion of Jewish peoplehood, presenting it as a hoax.

There is great genetic similarity between Ashkenazim and the Jews of Rome, who came from the Land of Israel and later from the Mediterranean. In no way can the same explanation of the origins of the Jews in Europe (the Khazar theory) apply to the Jews of Rome.

I wonder if this is not a separate thread if you guys want to really discuss it.

 

[jerry kelso]

Chapter and verse where God explains that he will void the covenant if X, Y, or Z.

open heart,

1. It seems you have not read my position yet about the abolishment of the law on pg. 8.
Your assessment about the Old Covenant of the law not being abolished and being amended is scripturally flawed.
Read it and then comment. Jerry kelso

 

[miknik5]

and be judged according to it as so chosen.

Except for one thing

 

[AlexDTX]

The disputed theory centers on the presumed mass conversion to Judaism of the Khazars — an extinct multiethnic kingdom that included Iranians, Turks, Slavs and Circassians — in the eighth century. Largely unsupported by genetic studies, it is popular in anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist literature because it is seen to dispel the notion of Jewish peoplehood, presenting it as a hoax.

Then I suppose that Arthur Koestler, an Ashkenazim Jew, is an anti-semite and anti-zionist for writing the "13th Tribe" in 1975 detailing with Arabic, Russian, Byzantium and Jewish sources the narrative of Khazaria.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Then I suppose that Arthur Koestler, an Ashkenazim Jew, is an anti-semite and anti-zionist for writing the "13th Tribe" in 1975 detailing with Arabic, Russian, Byzantium and Jewish sources the narrative of Khazaria.

Dont think they had DNA analysis in 1975...lots of theories can be de-bunked through using modern methods as is the case here.

Just because a Jew writes a book does not mean it can never be used as fodder for anti-Semitism and in this case it was.

 

[Open Heart]

A rabbi teaching about the Messiah and how God thinks, the irony continues.

Don't you understand that a Messianic Rabbi is a believer in Jesus?

 

[Open Heart]

You bash and degrate those under Yeshua's forgiveness and grace just like you. Guess you are one to throw stones and stone the sinners. I think Yeshua spoke about your type.

Personal attacks? I guess you didn't have a real reply.

 

[Open Heart]

Google 'obsolete' and 'will soon pass away'.

Yes, it will soon pass away, just as Christ will soon return. But neither has happened yet. Until heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle will pass away from the Law.

 

[Open Heart]

It settles it for all who want to believe this.

It settles this, whether a person believes it or not. There are no "alternative facts" in reality.

 

[Open Heart]

I agree that tribe still exists. But it is always by family extension. Calling someone in your family as family is a courtesy and may even give family benefits, but they are not family in truth, nor are they part of the tribe in truth.

Getting back to Ruth, who union was with the promise of Messiah, not the Mosaic law, although she lived under the Mosaic law just as Jesus did.

Ruth didn't know anything about a Messiah. She only knew the Mosaic covenant. The prophecy in Deuteronomy about a prophet to come was commonly seen as about Joshua. It was not until after Israel had a King that the prophets started talking about a Messiah, and then very little.

 

[Open Heart]

You live by the letter of the law you will die by it.

I'll take that as a concession that you can't back up your theory with scripture.

 

[AlexDTX]

Dont think they had DNA analysis in 1975...lots of theories can be de-bunked through using modern methods as is the case here.

Just because a Jew writes a book does not mean it can never be used as fodder for anti-Semitism and in this case it was.

If someone hates another person, anything will be used for that hate. DNA is not 100% reliable simply because all things are subject to human fallibility. With all the interbreeding throughout the Bible and history of Jews and Gentiles, I find it highly unlikely there remains a direct genetic line of descendants from Judah.

So as discussed with Open Heart, for whom is the land of Israel being saved by Jesus second coming? A tribe based upon culture? The land was promised to Abraham and his seed. Paul clearly states in Galatians that the seed is Jesus, not the descendants of Abraham. The land was not promised to the children of Ishmael, who is a descendant of Abraham, nor Esau and his descendants who is brother to Jacob, nor to any of the children of Keturah, also descendants of Abraham. It is only promised to Abraham and his seed. Isaac understood who the seed was as did Jacob, who sought the promise and bought it from Esau for a morsel of food. Esau was the first born of the twins and had the promise by right of the first born.

Jacob gained that right of the seed but his first born, Reuben did not. Nor is it clear from that point on who had that right apart from the genealogy showing that it was Judah, the 4th born. But God did not give the land of Israel to Judah, only a portion. After the Exodus He divided the land amidst the 12 tribes, sans Levi whose inheritance was the Lord.

As I told Open Heart, the Church does not replace Israel it replaces humanity.

 

[AlexDTX]

Ruth didn't know anything about a Messiah. She only knew the Mosaic covenant. The prophecy in Deuteronomy about a prophet to come was commonly seen as about Joshua. It was not until after Israel had a King that the prophets started talking about a Messiah, and then very little.

You don't know what Ruth knew. The understanding of the Messiah was given to Adam and Eve. All cultures of the world have Messiah stories. The prophets spelled out more specific details, but the knowledge was there. Furthermore, head knowledge is only one form of knowledge. She may have known by the Spirit, as well. How did John and Peter know that it was Moses and Elijah standing next to Jesus at the transfiguration? There were no paintings made of them when they were alive? There were no photographs. Neither did Jesus say to them that they were Moses and Elijah. They knew it by the Spirit just as Peter knew Jesus was the Christ by the Spirit.

 

[AlexDTX]

I'll take that as a concession that you can't back up your theory with scripture.

No, I don't want to waste my time on this anymore. I understand that God accepts us as we are and accepts our worship of Him in all the various forms that we bring to Him. But we are called to another Kingdom whose culture springs from the eternal nature of God Himself. We are told not to be conformed to this world but to be transformed by the renewing of our minds which means in understanding His eternal Kingdom. I think Gentiles have created a worldly understanding of Kingdom culture that still conforms to the world not the Kingdom of God, and think Messianic Jews have done the same thing in their desperate clinging to the Mosaic covenant and Yiddish culture. I don't believe that Messianic congregations create much of a bridge to Jews who don't know Christ. No one respects others who try to act like them when calling themselves different. Before Jesus incarnated the Jewish culture was different from the world and provided that contrast to the polytheistic pagans to show that they were a peculiar people. But now the Jews who reject Jesus are the pagans and you try to look like the Jewish pagans.

As I said before, trying to defend Jews who remain under the Mosaic Covenant as being accepted by God is to hate those Jews. I put more support and respect for Jews for Jesus who are Jewish but don't make a big deal out of it and seek to bring Jews to Christ. They do not defend them under the Mosaic covenant. They know if they die under the Mosaic covenant they will go to Hell and the Lake of Fire.

When I said that those who live by the letter of the law will die by the letter, I am referring to your defense of the Mosaic covenant, which many have already shared the clear end of it as it was replaced by the New Covenant. Instead of seeing the Spirit of the Word you see the letter. You and all the Messianic Jews who argue this point have my pity. You miss God by your natural, legalistic arguments.

 

[miknik5]

Don't you understand that a Messianic Rabbi is a believer in Jesus?

There are no rabbis but ONE