~ Son wants to join a death metal band ~

[OrthodoxLady1994]

So if 1994 is your birth year (?), are you into metal also?

Metal isn't a style of music I personally care for. I've just never seen anything but harm come when we limit ourselves based on a genre for religious reasons. Better to use discernment with the actual individual pieces of art. For example, if I like a song that I know has a lot of swearing in it but has a good beat and a good message I buy the clean version from Itunes.

 

[faroukfarouk]

You truly don't seem to be listening to the issue here. No one is denying the Biblical base of their lyrics. No one said they don't promote Christian lyrics. The issue is whether Biblical lyrics can flourish in that environment.

I guess you mean the musical style, right?

On these forums a lot of ppl have in the past talked about Christian rock music for example; some ppl took the view that all rock is bad, period; I and other have taken the view that it's the lyrics that count, really, rather than the musical style, which is more subjective.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Metal isn't a style of music I personally care for. I've just never seen anything but harm come when we limit ourselves based on a genre for religious reasons. Better to use discernment with the actual individual pieces of art. For example, if I like a song that I know has a lot of swearing in it but has a good beat and a good message I buy the clean version from Itunes.

Thanks for your comments. Above I was pointing out that actually some Christian death metal has some really good lyrics (post # 9, for example, Renascent's 'Son of God').

 

[tryintogrow]

I guess you mean the musical style, right?

On these forums a lot of ppl have in the past talked about Christian rock music for example; some ppl took the view that all rock is bad, period; I and other have taken the view that it's the lyrics that count, really, rather than the musical style, which is more subjective.

The question comes down to whether you think a musical style means something. Is a style just a matter of drums and guitars that make a nice sound? Or is a style a deep-seeded form of expression with cultural and spiritual roots?

 

[faroukfarouk]

The question comes down to whether you think a musical style means something. Is a style just a matter of drums and guitars that make a nice sound? Or is a style a deep-seeded form of expression with cultural and spiritual roots?

Put another way, I suppose, is God and is the possibility of blessing through Biblical lyrics restricted to only specific musical styles that someone 'legislates' about?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I hear you, bro. I was full-blown into Marilyn Manson, Type O Negative, Danzig, etc. That type of music leaves behind something in your psyche. It damages you in a way that's very similar to inappropriate contentography.

Yes, I went to a Danzig concert before I was saved. It is satanic music. I know I would not let my son or daughter listen to that trash if they were under my roof. It is merely a means to invite demons in your home.


...

 

[tryintogrow]

Put another way, I suppose, is God and is the possibility of blessing through Biblical lyrics restricted to only specific musical styles that someone 'legislates' about?

You are still coming from the viewpoint that legislation is an arbitrary act against preferences.

If you see music as all fun and games, none of it will bother you.

If you see musical styles as deliberate forms of expression driven by cultural and spiritual factors, you will hear those factors in music.

You have the priviledge of being someone who "eat the meat" Paul spoke of in Corinthians. That's great. I'm happy for you. Others are more sensitive, and it really won't do you any good to try to talk them out of it.

 

[faroukfarouk]

You are still coming from the viewpoint that legislation is an arbitrary act against preferences.

If you see music as all fun and games, none of it will bother you.

If you see musical styles as deliberate forms of expression driven by cultural and spiritual factors, you will hear those factors in music.

You have the priviledge of being someone who "eat the meat" Paul spoke of in Corinthians. That's great. I'm happy for you. Others are more sensitive, and it really won't do you any good to try to talk them out of it.

Some of the great hymns of the Christian faith are customarily sung to tunes which were originally very secular in origin, but were appropriated.

Not sure I follow what your meaning is in your last paragraph, though. (Maybe my mind is a bit dull today!)

 

[tryintogrow]

Some of the great hymns of the Christian faith are customarily sung to tunes which were originally very secular in origin, but were appropriated.

Not sure I follow what your meaning is in your last paragraph, though. (Maybe my mind is a bit dull today!)

Once again, we are not talking about secular styles just because they're secular. A secular person can set out to create beautiful, positive music, and it will be beautiful. This is a question of SPECIFIC styles that were developed and promoted for the express purpose of inducing negativity in a listener. No one is here to say that The Beach Boys are as bad as Marilyn Manson. This is not an attack on secular music at large.

 

[faroukfarouk]

You are still coming from the viewpoint that legislation is an arbitrary act against preferences.

PS Just another thought: I used the term 'legislate' in inverted commas; but I'm unsure of who you mean should legislate on other ppl's behalf about tunes and style?

 

[CoolDude68]

It's easy to say...."I would not allow this, or allow that if they were under my roof"...but have you ever been put in that situation? It's never easy because they are your children, no matter how old they are. Sure, we could certainly keep saying...no....no...no....no....and what happens? They rebel, run away from home, live in a cardboard box under an overpass. I don't know, I think we have to be careful with that sometimes.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Once again, we are not talking about secular styles just because they're secular. A secular person can set out to create beautiful, positive music, and it will be beautiful. This is a question of SPECIFIC styles that were developed and promoted for the express purpose of inducing negativity in a listener. No one is here to say that The Beach Boys are as bad as Marilyn Manson. This is not an attack on secular music at large.

I don't know much about Marilyn Mason, but there is probably something unsavory about it. As such, there is probably a vast difference between it and the Biblical lyrics in post #9, from Christian death metal band Renascent.

 

[Pilgrim]

Dude, I'm praying for you and your wife, to become of one mind on this matter; and that within your son has been planted a seed of knowledge and truth, of Jesus Christ our LORD and savior. I'm praying for your son to experience his passage into adulthood, where he is surrounded by God fearing people, who will set for him, an example, of how to be a man, not of this world, but rather of the Kingdom of God.

My Christian Advice is this: allow the Holy Spirit time and space to convict your son, to repent of his sins, and follow Jesus. Stand firm, together with your wife, in your beliefs, and lean on God, who is our rock and refuge.

Love God above all else and love your neighbors including your son.

Hey everyone, I would like to get some opinions from others on something. Our son (18) is a very talented drummer but he's only interested in one type of music - that hardcore death metal stuff.

Well, a talented local band recently contacted him seeking a drummer and he wants to join them. He's obviously not a Christian, nor are any of the band members, so my wife is having an issue with this and doesn't want him to join. I have an opposite view of this but would like opinions. I say let him join and learn from the experience while we pray for his safety and leave it in God's hands. If we don't let him he will rebel and his talents will go to waste. If he joins and gets the exposure then maybe some other band might discover him, which may lead to bigger and better things, or even guys who might be Christians. There are Christian metal bands. He claims he doesn't even care about the lyrics which I get, you can't even understand them and he says he just likes it because he can play fast.

I looked up the guys on FB and they are the typical kids. No, they aren't Christian and they do some cussing and normal fallen-world behavior stuff but that's expected. Nothing they were posting really surprised me. They don't post stuff like Satan worship or anything extreme going against God. Really, there's no mention of religion in their posts so they're typical lost souls like most of the world.

Now, I haven't listened to their lyrics because I can't understand that type of scream singing and I can't find their words online. Anyway, what I'd like to do is invite the group over the our home and show an example and get to know them. After all, who am I to judge? The problem is the wife wants absolutely no part of that. She's quick to judge so-to-speak.

Any advice on how to handle this or what to say to my wife? I'd really like to meet these guys and I don't want to keep denying our talented son from enjoying his gift God has given him.

 

[tryintogrow]

PS Just another thought: I used the term 'legislate' in inverted commas; but I'm unsure of who you mean should legislate on other ppl's behalf about tunes and style?

No one should legislate on behalf of anyone else. Let me try again for the third or fourth time.

If a person is sensitive toward music, and is able to pick up cultural or spiritual factors conveyed in music that go unnoticed by you, it simply means they are more sensitive. You can tolerate that music and not be bothered by. They cannot. Each side should have the liberty to follow their own convictions. No one should be pressured or browbeaten to accept music they don't like. No one should be made to feel deficient if they don't like certain music.

If you enjoy that music, I am happy for you. But it isn't your job to go on a campaign to convert everyone else.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[tryintogrow]

It's easy to say...."I would not allow this, or allow that if they were under my roof"...but have you ever been put in that situation? It's never easy because they are your children, no matter how old they are. Sure, we could certainly keep saying...no....no...no....no....and what happens? They rebel, run away from home, live in a cardboard box under an overpass. I don't know, I think we have to be careful with that sometimes.

The father in the prodigal son story did allow his son to end up starving and homeless.

 

[faroukfarouk]

No one should legislate on behalf of anyone else. Let me try again for the third or fourth time.

If a person is sensitive toward music, and is able to pick up cultural or spiritual factors conveyed in music that go unnoticed by you, it simply means they are more sensitive. You can tolerate that music and not be bothered by. They cannot. Each side should have the liberty to follow their own convictions. No one should be pressured or browbeaten to accept music they don't like. No one should be made to feel deficient if they don't like certain music.

If you enjoy that music, I am happy for you. But it isn't your job to go on a campaign to convert everyone else.

That's all I'm saying.

I think I'm getting more of your meaning; thanks.

As I see it, @CoolDude68 knows his son is into death metal but does not necessarily think the style in itself is problematic. His wife doesn't like the style, and of course she doesn't have to. I guess we have been as a result pitching in about styles and likes and dislikes but also about good and sometimes bad lyrics. It's been an interesting discussion.

 

[tryintogrow]

I think I'm getting more of your meaning; thanks.

As I see it, @CoolDude68 knows his son is into death metal but does not necessarily think the style in itself is problematic. His wife doesn't like the style, and of course she doesn't have to. I guess we have been as a result pitching in about styles and likes and dislikes but also about good and sometimes bad lyrics. It's been an interesting discussion.

Let us take lyrics completely out of the equation. Say we are talking about instrumentals. No lyrics to give you any obvious indication of what the band is saying. Can you listen to instrumental music and be affected by it, either in a positive or negative way? Music is more than just a vehicle to carry some lyrics.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Let us take lyrics completely out of the equation. Say we are talking about instrumentals. No lyrics to give you any obvious indication of what the band is saying. Can you listen to instrumental music and be affected by it, either in a positive or negative way? Music is more than just a vehicle to carry some lyrics.

Not sure I completely agree with your comment; because for example, if I were to invite a neighbour to an informal evening of hymns, and then all the lyrics were left out, with everyone either humming the tune or playing instruments or remaining silent (rather a hypothetical situation, of course), then a lot of the value of the occasion would be lost, surely?

People have strong, subjective views about preferred tunes and styles and it's only to be anticipated that Christians are going to have a variety of preferences, some of the contrary to those of other Christians.

But the lyrics in my - simple - mind are among the most important aspect of testimony in music.

 

[tryintogrow]

Again, you keep calling them subjective because you cannot imagine what other people are feeling from the music. I would encourage you to spend some time studying instrumental music. Not just vague examples of someone humming a melody. I mean deep, complex music that conveys emotion with no lyrics.

Check out some classical stuff. Jazz. Big band. Find Rachmaninoff on YouTube, close your eyes, and try to feel what he's conveying through his music. This idea of lyrics being necessary for music is a very recent concept.

Once you become skilled at feeling the impact of music, you will start to pay less and less attention to the lyrics.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Again, you keep calling them subjective because you cannot imagine what other people are feeling from the music. I would encourage you to spend some time studying instrumental music. Not just vague examples of someone humming a melody. I mean deep, complex music that conveys emotion with no lyrics.

Check out some classical stuff. Jazz. Big band. Find Rachmaninoff on YouTube, close your eyes, and try to feel what he's conveying through his music. This idea of lyrics being necessary for music is a very recent concept.

Once you become skilled at feeling the impact of music, you will start to pay less and less attention to the lyrics.

But in Christian testimony, aren't the lyrics the whole point?

I guess I keep coming back to this idea in my mind.

Together with this is the observation that some Christian death metal lyrics are very good and Biblical.

Maybe we don't really agree on this subject; which is fine. It's an interesting discussion.