Solution to the creation/evolution debate...?

[Neogaia777]

I’m not talking about creation I’m talking about God resting on the seventh day. That has already happened. You’re saying that it hasn’t happened yet but the Bible clearly says several times that it has.

Show me where...?

Because as far as I know it just only mentions Him resting on the seventh day, but not that it has happened for Him necessarily yet, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[BNR32FAN]

Show me where...?

Because as far as I know it just only mentions Him resting on the seventh day, but not that it has happened for Him necessarily yet, etc...?

God Bless!

“By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:2-3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Here just one example with numerous indications that His resting on the 7th has already happened and that creation was completed.

 

[coffee4u]

Why claim that "God told us" when men wrote the Bible? Why does God's creation, if he exists, tell us a totally different story?

The men who wrote the Bible were God's scribes. They wrote down what God told them to write down. If the Bible were merely man's words then these verses would not exist.

2 Timothy 3:16-17


16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

The Bible is God's breathed word to us, with power to divide the soul and spirit, to judge the heart. No mere book penned by men. us such we can trust what is says even if that goes against every 'evidence' that we see.
We need to stop relying on what mankind calls evidence. Mankind isn't nearly so clever as he thinks.

God's creation is gone. It isn't here to test or study. It corrupted at the fall and was washed away and reshaped at the flood. All you have, all any scientist has is the corrupted groaning world.
Romans 8:22
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

2 Peter 3
5But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world of that time perished in the flood. 7And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

Of course the world you see now isn't going to tell you anything about it's freshly created state. This is why we have God's word so that we can know the truth even if our eyes can't.

 

[Neogaia777]

“By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:2-3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Here just one example with numerous indications that His testing on the 7th has already happened and that creation was completed.

It does not say it has already happened, but only that He did/does/will rest on the seventh day when it comes for Him, etc...

Or also, what about the scripture talking about a future day of God's rest (Psalms 95:11, Hebrews 3:11, Hebrews 4:3, Hebrews 4:5)...

Also God is just clearly not at rest yet also, nor did He rest right after creation, or from the very beginning either, so you theology/take on this is flawed, etc...

God the Spirit has not rested yet, but will when Jesus comes back, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Subduction Zone]

The men who wrote the Bible were God's scribes. They wrote down what God told them to write down. If the Bible were merely man's words then these verses would not exist.

2 Timothy 3:16-17


16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

The Bible is God's breathed word to us, with power to divide the soul and spirit, to judge the heart. No mere book penned by men. us such we can trust what is says even if that goes against every 'evidence' that we see.
We need to stop relying on what mankind calls evidence. Mankind isn't nearly so clever as he thinks.

God's creation is gone. It isn't here to test or study. It corrupted at the fall and was washed away and reshaped at the flood. All you have, all any scientist has is the corrupted groaning world.
Romans 8:22
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

2 Peter 3
5But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world of that time perished in the flood. 7And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

Of course the world you see now isn't going to tell you anything about it's freshly created state. This is why we have God's word so that we can know the truth even if our eyes can't.

That is a combination of rather creative interpretation and circular reasoning. To demonstrate that the Bible is "God's word" one would need to go outside of the Bible if one does not want to be logically fallacious.

 

[Neogaia777]

“By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:2-3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Here just one example with numerous indications that His resting on the 7th has already happened and that creation was completed.

And also again, you are quoting Genesis again also, and in a place that is supposed to be describing an entire history of an entire creation from beginning to end also yet again also, etc...

God Bless!

 

[BNR32FAN]

And also again, you are quoting Genesis again also, and in a place that is supposed to be describing an entire history of an entire creation from beginning to end also yet again also, etc...

God Bless!

I would expect that someone who studied geology in college would be able to understand such an elementary concept of past tense. As I stated before there’s still Exodus 20:11 and Exodus 31

“For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭31:17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So these sound to you like they haven’t taken place yet? Here’s a video that will help you understand the difference between tenses.

 

[Neogaia777]

I would expect that someone who studied geology in college would be able to understand such an elementary concept of past tense. As I stated before there’s still Exodus 20:11 and Exodus 31

“For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭31:17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So these sound to you like they haven’t taken place yet? Here’s a video that will help you understand the difference between tenses.

Past, present, or future tense or not, it is pretty clear that God has not rested after creation, or right after making everything, or been at rest yet, etc, but God the Spirit will rest when Jesus comes back, and some will get to enter into that rest with Him, and some will not, etc.

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I would expect that someone who studied geology in college would be able to understand such an elementary concept of past tense. As I stated before there’s still Exodus 20:11 and Exodus 31

“For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭31:17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So these sound to you like they haven’t taken place yet? Here’s a video that will help you understand the difference between tenses.

So, you think we are in the seventh day now then...?

Or "what", etc...?

Did God rest after creating everything, but then had to wake back up again, and become active again, for yet another period of time again, or what, etc...?

And if so, will He need to sleep again, and then be woke back up later on again, or what, etc...?

And what about the scriptures I gave you that talk about a future coming, or still yet to come, day of God's rest...?

God Bless!

 

[AV1611VET]

That is a combination of rather creative interpretation and circular reasoning. To demonstrate that the Bible is "God's word" one would need to go outside of the Bible if one does not want to be logically fallacious.

What do you think fulfillment of Bible prophecy does? nothing?

 

[Subduction Zone]

What do you think fulfillment of Bible prophecy does? nothing?

I am unaware of any valid fulfilled prophecy. You have to use a proper metric when you talk about fulfilled prophecy. There are more examples of failed prophecy than fulfilled prophecy that I can think of.

The following list would not only apply to the Bible, but to any belief once properly modified:

1. It must be accurate. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if it is not accurate, because knowledge (and thus foreknowledge) excludes inaccurate statements. TLDR: It's true.
2. It must be in the Bible. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if it is not in the Bible, because Biblical by definition foreknowledge can only come from the Bible itself, rather than modern reinterpretations of the text. TLDR: It's in plain words in the Bible.
3. It must be precise and unambiguous. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if meaningless philosophical musings or multiple possible ideas could fulfill the foreknowledge, because ambiguity prevents one from knowing whether the foreknowledge was intentional rather than accidental. TLDR: Vague "predictions" don't count.
4. It must be improbable. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if it reasonably could be the result of a pure guess, because foreknowledge requires a person to actually know something true, while a correct guess doesn't mean that the guesser knows anything. This also excludes contemporary beliefs that happened be true but were believed to be true without solid evidence. TLDR: Lucky guesses don't count.
5. It must have been unknown. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if it reasonably could be the result of an educated guess based off contemporary knowledge, because foreknowledge requires a person to know a statement when it would have been impossible, outside of supernatural power, for that person to know it. TLDR: Ideas of the time don't count.

 

[AV1611VET]

I am unaware of any valid fulfilled prophecy.

See if this doesn't meet all your requirements.

1 Kings 13:1 And, behold, there came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the LORD unto Bethel: and Jeroboam stood by the altar to burn incense.
2 And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.

340 years later.

2 Kings 23:19 And all the houses also of the high places that were in the cities of Samaria, which the kings of Israel had made to provoke the LORD to anger, Josiah took away, and did to them according to all the acts that he had done in Bethel.
20 And he slew all the priests of the high places that were there upon the altars, and burned men's bones upon them, and returned to Jerusalem.

From Adam Clarke's Commentary:

This is one of the most remarkable and most singular prophecies in the Old Testament. It here most circumstantially foretells a fact which took place three hundred and forty years after the prediction; a fact which was attested by the two nations. The Jews, in whose behalf this prophecy was delivered, would guard it most sacredly; and it was the interest of the Israelites, against whom it was levelled, to impugn its authenticity and expose its falsehood, had this been possible. This prediction not only showed the knowledge of God, but his power. He gave, as it were, this warning to idolatry, that it might be on its guard, and defend itself against this Josiah whenever a person of that name should be found sitting on the throne of David; and no doubt it was on the alert, and took all prudent measures for its own defence; but all in vain, for Josiah, in the eighteenth year of his reign, literally accomplished this prophecy,

 

[Subduction Zone]

See if this doesn't meet all your requirements.

1 Kings 13:1 And, behold, there came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the LORD unto Bethel: and Jeroboam stood by the altar to burn incense.
2 And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.

340 years later.

2 Kings 23:19 And all the houses also of the high places that were in the cities of Samaria, which the kings of Israel had made to provoke the LORD to anger, Josiah took away, and did to them according to all the acts that he had done in Bethel.
20 And he slew all the priests of the high places that were there upon the altars, and burned men's bones upon them, and returned to Jerusalem.

From Adam Clarke's Commentary:

This is one of the most remarkable and most singular prophecies in the Old Testament. It here most circumstantially foretells a fact which took place three hundred and forty years after the prediction; a fact which was attested by the two nations. The Jews, in whose behalf this prophecy was delivered, would guard it most sacredly; and it was the interest of the Israelites, against whom it was levelled, to impugn its authenticity and expose its falsehood, had this been possible. This prediction not only showed the knowledge of God, but his power. He gave, as it were, this warning to idolatry, that it might be on its guard, and defend itself against this Josiah whenever a person of that name should be found sitting on the throne of David; and no doubt it was on the alert, and took all prudent measures for its own defence; but all in vain, for Josiah, in the eighteenth year of his reign, literally accomplished this prophecy,

It is only a claim of a prophecy. 1 Kings was not written 340 years before 2 Kings. So that would be a fail. You need an actual prophecy. One where the date of the writing of it is known. Remember, the Bible is the claim, it is not the evidence. How would you demonstrate that such a prophecy was made 340 years before the event?

There is a term for history written as prophecy, unfortunately my aging brain has fogetten it. If you want a prophecy that you want to claim as evidence parts of it have to be verifiable outside of the Bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

It is only a claim of a prophecy.

I see.

1 Kings was not written 340 years before 2 Kings.

You were there?

So that would be a fail.

It would?

You need an actual prophecy.

I do?

One where the date of the writing of it is known.

Why do dates have to be known?

Some prophecies were fulfilled the very next day.

Anyone can fake a fulfilled prophecy.

The real trick is to KEEP IT FROM HAPPENING.

And that's something that can't be done, if it's a true prophecy.

That's a truth Yasser Arafat never learned.

And he took his failures to the grave with him.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I see.You were there?It would?I do?Why do dates have to be known?

Some prophecies were fulfilled the very next day.

Anyone can fake a fulfilled prophecy.

The real trick is to KEEP IT FROM HAPPENING.

And that's something that can't be done, if it's a true prophecy.

That's a truth Yasser Arafat never learned.

And he took his failures to the grave with him.

Sorry, but when you rudely break up a post excessively you lose. Would you care to try to respond again or shall I take this as another admission that you are wrong?

 

[AV1611VET]

Would you care to try to respond again or shall I take this as another admission that you are wrong?

By all means.

 

[Subduction Zone]

By all means.

Okay. So no valid prophecies in the Bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

So no valid prophecies in the Bible.

Not.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not.

Then find one. You as much as admitted that your first example failed.

 

[AV1611VET]

Then find one. You as much as admitted that your first example failed.

See my first example again.