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Featured So what's with all the weird stuff

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Jenniferdiana, Aug 3, 2017.

  1. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Matt 24:1-3 -- Christ announces that the second Temple, God's dwelling place among mankind, would soon be destroyed and earthly Jerusalem made desolate. The Jewish followers of Christ, as citizens of the Old Covenant dispensation, inquire as to the future of their nation, having been informed that the end of that age would be accompanied by the annihilation of the entire Mosaic Temple system and state. These disasters came to pass in accordance with the prophecies of Christ: The Jews launched the Great Revolt in AD 66 under messianic king Menahem (Josephus, Wars of the Jews, 2:17) and set fire to the Holy Temple at the desolation of Jerusalem at AD 70 (Josephus, Wars, 6:2:9; 6:3:5; 6:4:5; 6:6:2). At the end of this tribulation, Roman armies took apart the Jerusalem Temple stone-by-stone to get the gold that had melted down between the cracks (during the fires) and to remove the headquarters of the Jewish revolt. The Temple vessels and utensils were then plundered and taken to Rome by General Titus (Josephus, Wars, 7:5:5-7).

    Matt 24:4 -- Shaken by the prospect of the destruction of their glorious Temple, and knowing from the destruction of Solomon's Temple 600 years prior that such calamities mark God's visitation to them (Jer 7:1-20,29-34), the apostles ask, "When will these things be?" and "What sign signifies thy coming at end of the age?" The questioning highlights the fact that the Judgement coming of Christ and the end of the Old Testamental age would be discerned and comprehended in the passing of calamitous signs.

    Matt 24:4-5 -- Christ predicts the intensification of false messianic movements within Israel and around the empire. First-century examples: Dositheus the Samaritan (Origen: Contra Celsum, VI, ii; Hom. xxv in Lucam; Contra Celsum, I, lvii), Simon Magus (Acts 8:9-24) who was deified in Rome, Theudas (Acts 5:36-37), Judas the Galilean (Acts 5:37), Herod Agrippa (Acts 12:20-23), Menahem (Josephus: War of the Jews; 2.433-450). Under the government of Felix, deceivers rose up daily in Judea and persuaded the people to follow them into the wilderness, assuring them that they should behold conspicuous signs and wonders performed by the Almighty. (Felix, from time to time, apprehended many and put them to death.) During this period (52-58 AD) arose a celebrated Egyptian deceiver (Acts 21:38), who collected thirty-thousand followers and persuaded them to accompany him to the Mount of Olives, telling them that from there they would see the walls of Jerusalem fall down at his command as a prelude to the capture of the Roman garrison and their obtaining the sovereignty of the city (Josephus: War of the Jews, 2.259-263; Antiquities of the Jews 20.169-171). Such messiahs and magicians were often as powerful in the display of miracles as were the apostles (see: Simon of Samaria in Acts 8:9-11; Apollonius of Tyana). Partial list of first-century false messiahs: Judas, son of Hezekiah (4 BC); Simon of Peraea (4 BC); Athronges, the shepherd (4 BC); Judas, the Galilean (6 AD); the Samaritan prophet (36 AD); King Herod Agrippa (44 AD); Theudas (? AD); the Egyptian prophet (52-58 AD); anonymous prophet (59 AD); Menahem, the son of Judas the Galilean (66 AD); John of Gischala (67-70 AD); Vespasian (67 AD); Simon bar Giora (69-70 AD). Related link: Livius.org - Messiah Overview.

    Matt 24:6-8 -- Jesus promises His apostles that they will have famines, wars and rumors concerning wars. This prophecy had special significance during that period of the great Pax Romana ("Roman Peace"), when the outbreak of these wars transpired: Claudius' Roman war with Britain/East Anglia; at least three Jewish insurrections against Rome prior to the 60s AD (one violently put down by Cuspius Fadus); the Jewish/Alexandrian revolt upon Caligula's death; Claudius declares martial law in Palestine after the Jewish insurrection at the death of Agrippa I; the Germanic tribes in present-day Belgium and Germany made perpetual trouble for the legions throughout the reign; a smoldering Balkan war was in continuous progress. As these conflagrations escalated, Rome started its own civil wars in 68-70 that nearly toppled the empire. As Tacitus writes, "Four princes [Galba, Otho, Vitellius, Domitian] killed by the sword; three civil wars, several foreign wars; and mostly raging at the same time. Favorable events in the East [the subjection of the Jews], unfortunate ones in the West. Illyria disturbed, Gaul uneasy; Britain conquered and soon relinquished; the nations of Sarmatia and Suevia rising against us; the Parthians excited by the deception of a pseudo-Nero." For more on wars of this time and false prophets, see: Josephus: Antiquities, 20:5:1-4; 20:8:5-10; Wars, 2:10:1; 2:13:4-7; 6:5:2. As for famines, Acts 11:28 records a worldwide famine. Josephus reports famines in Jerusalem in the 60s AD which killed hundreds of thousands during the Jewish War (AD 66-70). There were accounts of infanticide and cannibalism (as foretold in Deuteronomy 28:53,57) -- Jewish women cooked and ate their babies (Josephus; Wars 6:3:3-4; Wars 5:1:4). Concerning earthquakes, Seneca writes: "How often have cities in Asia, how often in Achaia, been laid low by a single shock of earthquake! How many towns in Smyrna, how many in Macedonia, have been swallowed up! How often has Paphos collapsed! Not infrequently are tidings brought to us of the utter destruction of entire cities" (Seneca Ad Lucilium Epistulae Morales, trans. Richard M. Gummere, vol. 2, 437). Josephus says of Jerusalem, "the city was besieged on both sides...there broke out a prodigious storm in the night, with the utmost violence, and very strong winds, with the largest showers of rain, with continued lightnings, terrible thunderings, and amazing concussions and bellowings of the earth, that was in an earthquake. These things were a manifest indication that some destruction was coming upon men, when the system of the world was put into this disorder; and any one would guess that these wonders foreshowed some grand calamities that were coming" (Wars, 4:4:5).

    Matt 24:9-10 -- Jesus foretells the persecution of the early church by the Jews and later by Nero, who falsely blamed the Christian sect for burning up to half of Rome. This persecution went on the entire AD 30-66 by the Jews, and Nero's persecution was precisely 3.5 years, from 64-68AD. It is essential to note that Matthew 24:9-13 is exactly parallel to Matthew 10:16-23, a passage which all scholars assign to a first-century fulfillment. Jesus predicts the civil wars of the Jews (Matt 24:10; 10:21), and the great Jewish civil war occurred in 66-69AD (Josephus; Wars, 2:17:1-10; 2:18:1-11; 4:6:2-3; 5:1:2-5; 5:6:1; 5:13:6; 6:2:1).

    Matt 24:11-13 -- Jesus teaches more on false prophets, emphasizing their key role in the delusion of the nation, as per 2 Thess 2:7-11 (see also: Antiquities, 20:8:6; Wars, 6:5:2). Josephus says false prophets were related to the messianic movement of the seditious Zealots, who promised a redemption for the Jewish rebels at the Temple but were met with total destruction at the hand of the Romans. In Matthew 24:13 Jesus holds out hope for the believers who might endure to the end. (Verses 24:12-13 are parallel to Matthew 10:21-22.)

    Matt 24:14 -- A key sign of the end of the Jewish age was the gospel's rapid proclamation to the whole world (Greek: "oikoumene" = "inhabited earth;" "Roman Empire" -- Strong's # 3625). This sign was rapidly fulfilled in the apostles' generation, especially through Paul's ministry (Col 1:23, Col 1:5-6, Romans 10:14-18, Romans 16:26, 1 Tim 3:16; Acts 13:47). The "whole world" spoken of in the Bible pertained to the extent of the Roman Empire (compare the geographic boundaries of the "whole world" in Matt 24:14 with that of the same "whole world" in Luke 2:1, Acts 11:28, Acts 2:5, Romans 1:8 and and 2 Chronicles 36:23). The use of the Greek word "oikoumene" (Strong's #3625) in Matt 24:14 speaks of the Roman Empire -- the "whole world" ("oikoumene") of the scriptures was contextually centered in the area of the Ancient Roman Empire (see: Luke 2:1). Early Church fathers such as Clement of Rome, Eusebius, and Chrysostom said Matthew 24:14 as fulfilled in the apostles' generation. The immediate and rapid spread of the Christian faith throughout the entire Empire signified a covenantal shift to a new dispensation wherein all nations participate equally in the blessing of Abraham through faith (Gen 12:1-3; Gal 3:6-9,14,29).

    Matt 24:15-20 -- Christ tells of His nation's Great Tribulation (cf. Luke 21:20-23). The famous historic account of the exodus of the Jerusalem Church in AD 66-67 is recorded by Eusebius (Ecclesiastical History, iii.v.). The Judean remnant saw the armies of Cestius Gallus in 66AD surrounding Jerusalem (and Vespasian's shortly thereafter; compare to the parallel account in Luke 21:20-24). At the same time, The Temple was captured by the Jewish Zealots as Paul had foretold (2 Thess 2:4-7). Messiah-King Menahem and the Zealots turned the temple into a military outpost, defiled it with murderous blood, and made evil of their own high priest while launching the Great Revolt. During this time, the daily sacrifices offered to Rome were ended, which was a declaration of war against the Roman Empire. These events signaled the faithful Jewish remnant to flee according to our Lord's commands to them in Matthew 24:16-20 and Luke 21:20:23. Just after they escaped the city, the Zealots seized the city, guarded the gates, and prevented all escape. Eusebius writes, "But the members of the Church in Jerusalem, having been commanded before the war in accordance with a certain oracle given by revelation to the men of repute there to depart from Jerusalem and to inhabit a certain city of Peraea called Pella, all the believers in Christ in Jerusalem went thither; and when now the saints had abandoned both the royal metropolis itself and the whole land of Judaea, the vengeance of God finally overtook the lawless persecutors of Christ and His apostles." At the end of the great tribulation the Romans made sacrifices to their standards at the Temple (Josephus, Wars, 4:5:1; 5:1:2,3,5).
    Continued....
     
  2. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Continuing.....

    Matt 24:21-24 -- Jesus tells more about Israel's Great Tribulation (also: Luke 21:20-24; Josephus, Wars of the Jews, entire). The Roman Jewish war is the documented history of the Great Tribulation. Josephus declares that the war with the Romans was "the greatest of all ever heard of" (see: Matthew 24:21). Josephus writes, "the war which the Jews made with the Romans hath been the greatest of all those, not only that have been in our times, but, in a manner, of those that were ever heard of" (Wars of the Jews, preface, section 1; Wars, 5:10:5). Jesus calls this time the "Days of Vengeance" (Luke 21:20-22; Isaiah 61:2/Jer 46:10; Matt 23:31-38; Luke 19:40-44; Matt 21:40-22:7), and "wrath and distress upon this people" (Luke 21:23; see also Josephus, Wars, 2:10:1; 2:22:1; 6:3:3-4; 6:9:2-4; 7:1:1). Lakes of blood and fires (Wars, 2:18: 4:5:1; 5:1:2-5; 6:4:6; 6:5:1,2; 6:8:5). Jerusalem divided into three (Rev 16:19; see also Wars, 5:1:1,4). Genealogical records destroyed (Wars, 6:6:3; 6:9:1). God took the Kingdom away from them (Matt 21:40-45; see also Josephus, Wars, 6:8:4:; 6:9:1,4). Jerusalem called "That Great City" and "Sodom" (Rev 11:8; Rev 18:21-24; see also Josephus, Wars, 5:10:5; 5:13:6; 7:8:7). Jews sold into slavery (Luke 21:24; see also Josephus, Wars, preface, section 11; Wars 6:8:2; 6:9:2-4). City of Jerusalem is leveled (Matt 24:2 and Luke 19:40-44; see also Josephus, Wars, 7:1:1; 7:8:7). Jesus warns his generation: "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of gehenna? Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Behold, your house is being left to you desolate (Matt 23:33-38).

    Matt 24:25 -- Jesus explicitly tells the apostles that these dire events will be experienced by them (as also in Matt 24:33-34). They will be the generation to see these things Jesus is describing come to pass (not some distant future generation). By comparing Matt 24:25 with similar statements in John 14:28, John 13:19 and John 16:4, we see that they all signal events in the apostles' near future. Christ always told his apostles things they would need to know beforehand, that it could be to their benefit when the things came to pass before their eyes.

    Matt 24:26-28 -- Jesus forewarns them not to follow false messianic movements in the desert or in the Temple chambers, which had precise first-century relevance for them (Antiquities of the Jews, 20:8:6; Wars, 6:5:2). The desolation is like lightning over the whole land from east to west, and where the carcasses are strewn, there will be the Roman Eagles (i.e, the infamous Eagle Ensigns of the Roman armies that were planted all over Jerusalem during the Roman Jewish war). The Roman eagle ensigns served as a symbol of the Jews' defeat at the hand of their enemies. Most commentators believe this war and passage also was the fulfillment of Moses' predictions in Deuteronomy 28:49 and the verses following. All this came to pass in 66-70AD (see also: Josephus, Wars, 4:5:1; 5:1:2,3,5).

    Matt 24:29-31 -- Christ speaks of the end signs. This passage hinges upon the apocalyptic language of the great prophets Isaiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, David, etc. in exactly the same way they used such language for God's judgments against nations and individuals in their own times. Compare Christ's words with God's coming to O.T. Babylon in 539BC (Isa 13:10-13, 13:1, and 13:17), God's coming to Edom in 703BC (Isa 34:3-5), God's coming to Egypt in 572BC (Ez 32:7-11), God's coming to Nineveh in 612BC (Nahum 1). So, in like manner, Jesus Christ is now also seen as coming in that same glory of the Father (cf. Matt 16:27; John 17:5). Jesus came to first-century Israel and demolished it in the same glory as the Father's cloud-comings in the OT era (cf. Isaiah 19:1-2). Thus, this passage speaks of Christ's full equality and oneness with Jehovah. This particular "coming" of Christ is signified by the fall of Jerusalem and the Holy Temple. Many cosmic signs were also witnessed in that period: the angels, voices, and glorious brightness of God are witnessed at the temple and around Jerusalem as recorded in Josephus, Tacitus, and the Midrash (Josephus, Wars, 6:5:3; 2:22:1-2; 4:4:5; 6:5:2-3; Tacitus, Histories, v. 13; Midrash, Lam 2:11). All torah-observing, Messiah-rejecting Jews were gathered into Jerusalem from all over the world at Passover Feast in 67AD and were shut in by the Zealot and Roman armies. Now, locked in the giant furnace of the city, millions were destroyed (see: Matt 13:40-43, Luke 19:40-44, Matt 23:33-38, Luke 23:28-31; Matt 21:40-45). It is no surprise that rabbis today call 70AD the "end of biblical Judaism." Indeed, the faithful and newly consummated Church-bride was gathered and spared God's desolations and wrath. The Church-nation of Christ, thus fully built and established, is never to be destroyed. The Church becomes the eternal Temple and Priesthood of God (2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:19-22; 1 Peter 2:9). Christianity emerges distinct from Judaism and becomes the universal and one true Faith of the Living God and the Holy Nation. Christ's followers were destined to occupy all nations to gather the elect from all peoples into Abraham's blessing (Gal 3:7-9.14,16,26-29; Gen 12:1-3). The teachings and prophecies of Christ and the apostles are fully and historically vindicated by this historic destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in AD 66-70.

    Matt 24:32-33 -- Jesus gives a parable about trees and their seasons (Luke 21:29-31). The shooting forth of leaves signals that summer is now near at hand. Jesus applies this natural phenomenon to his apostles and the season of the end of the age: "So likewise you too [the apostles], when you shall see all these things know that it is near, even at the door" (cf. James 5:8-9; Rev 3:20). In Luke's account, Christ's promise to the apostles is as follows: "So also you, when you see these things come to pass know that the kingdom of God is near at hand" (Lk 21:31).

    Matt 24:33-34 -- In this passage, the climax of the Olivet Discourse, Jesus promises his apostles that they will see all these signs come to pass in their generation: "So likewise you, when you shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
     
  3. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    This is about God's Judgment against the sins of Israel against God. I realize you don't care which word for world is used in scripture, if you did, you would debunk yourself.
    Vines....

    The phrase "the end of the world" should be rendered "the end of the age," in most places (see END, A, No. 2); in 1Cr 10:11, AV, "the ends (tele) of the world," RV, "the ends of the ages," probably signifies the fulfillment of the Divine purposes concerning the ages in regard to the church [this would come under END, A, No. 1, (c)]. In Hbr 11:3[lit., "the ages (have been prepared)"] the word indicates all that the successive periods contain; cp. Hbr 1:2. Aion is always to be distinguished from kosmos, even where the two seem to express the same idea, e.g., 1Cr 3:18, aion, 1Cr 3:19, kosmos; the two are used together in Eph 2:2, lit., "the age of this world." For a list of phrases containing aion, with their respective meanings, see EVER, B.

    The rendering "the end of the world" (AV and RV, text) is misleading; the RV marg., "the consummation of the age," is correct. The word does not denote a termination, but the heading up of events to the appointed climax. AION is not the world, but a period or epoch or era in which events take place."


    The word aion is ONE of the three different words for 'earth and world in Mathew 24. You should look at how it's used, but I know you don't care, so it's likely going to be up to me.

    ! Cor. 10:11 is about God's judgment coming upon unrepented Israel at the end of the consummation of the age.

    Chuck said,
    So twice here Paul says, "Now look, this is all here for an example unto you. It is all typical history. You need to learn from their mistakes. You are not to go after the flesh. You are not to desire after evil things. You are not to commit fornication. You are not to commit idolatry. You are not to murmur against God."
     
  4. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Hal, old buddy, you should sit down and read what the Preterist or even partial Preterist views 'really' are as you are all mixed up in interpretations my dear friend.
     
  5. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    All Christians are preterist.
    We only vary by degree.
     
  6. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    I have looked at preterism and it FULLY explains Revelation. It is amazing to see the truth laid out.
     
  7. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    You preterists can have your belief. The end of this age will be just as we are told in Revelation and by all the prophets.
    I stopped reading your lengthy posts, Parousia, at the place you say that Jesus destroyed the Temple in 70 AD. Jesus will physically come again in His glory, to reign for 1000 years. Not before that for any other reason, rapture or anything else. He is here spiritually, of course. Matthew 28:20b

    Goatee, your short comments always display your attitude of having a superior knowledge and those who aren't Catholics or who warn others of impending disasters, are considered by you to be some lower form of life. Not nice and not Christian.
     
  8. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Well, Jesus Himself called that event "The Coming of the Lord of the Vineyard".

    You are, of course, free to disagree with Him.

    So if He is here spiritually now, apart from His physical Body, is His spirit-less physical Body currently in Heaven? Does he come ago to to re inhabit His physical Body in heaven from time to time, or does His spirit remain disembodied from His physical Body for the duration of the church Age?
    I've never understood how futurists believe that works.
     
  9. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    Let me walk you through it. It's the only way to get you to see this the way it should be.

    "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors."

    You don't use the lexicons because if you did you would debunk your self. You don't care that the Greek and Hebrew text have several words for one English word. If you don't know what they are and how they're used, you'll never get things right.

    The interlinear words it like this...
    thus also ye whenever ye-may-be-perceiving all these be-ye-knowing that near He-IS on doors.

    'So likewise'
    means Jesus is comparing all of the things he mentioned between verses 3-33 with the fig tree parable. Something you don't talk about much and may not understand.

    When ye shall see all these things .....WHENEVER you MAY be perceiving all these things, What things??? i.e. The events Jesus mentioned between verses 3-33,

    "know that it is near,"

    Know what is here???

    The appearance of the son of man in heaven. NOT AD70!

    V.30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:
    ...even at the doors.

    The interlinear...
    NEAR HE IS ON THE DOORS.


    Typical for the KJV to NOT get it right.

    This is speaking of Christ return being imminent when we see all the events of Mathew 24:3-33 pass.

    NEAR is the word 'eggys,' neat word. Look at what it means...
    near, of place and position

    Jesus wasn't saying the destruction of the temple and the events of Mathew 24 were near, he's saying that the appearance of the sign of the Son of man is near when you see all the things between verses 3-33 pass. That's how he's comparing the parable of the fig tree. When we see leaves, we know summer is near. When we see the events of verse 3-33 pass, we know Christ return is near. Simple isn't it?


    "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors."
    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/mat24.pdf

    It's not really that difficult, but I supposed it's one big delima you don't care about.
    Near in man's view because he's the one given the signs to determine when Christ return is near according to the signs he sees.

    Mathew 24:32-33 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

    So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

    35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
    You don't want me to bring up the questions you haven't answered.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  10. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, one and two liners, goatee's favorite.
     
  11. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Excellent.
    So why did James say "You also must be patient. Strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. Beloved, do not grumble against one another, so that you may not be judged. See, the Judge is standing at the doors! (James 5:8-9)

    James surely must've known of Jesus' teaching that only AFTER certain signs were seen would His coming be "near & at the doors" since he is practically quoting it, no?

    Did James see the signs?
    Was James mistaken?

    Sure I do.
    What are they?
     
  12. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    Parousia said,
    First line of his copy and paste preterist article....
    The man can't even get the first line correct. Verses 1-3 aren't only about the second temple, but the entire Temple mount area, the "sacred or Holy place," which consisted of several buildings. ALSO! Jesus doesn't say the temple would be destroyed, he words it all like this..."See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." ALL THESE THINGS??? Jesus was asked the question about the falling of the stones, the signs, and consummation of the age while on Mount Moriah, todays Temple Mount.
    Verse 3 takes place about an hours walk away on the Mount of Olives.

    While walking from the Temple Area to the Mount of Olives I'm sure the disciples were talking about what Jesus said.

    2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

    3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
    This is the view from the mount of olives....SEE YE NOT ALL THESE THINGS?

    [​IMG]

    There are stones one upon another...

    [​IMG]

    That doesn't make any sense. Was this translated from another language or something?
    I've read some of this page and gave up concluding that whoever wrote it was bent on digging up whatever insignificant stuff he could to fit this in a AD 70 context. I'm sorry bro, but falling for this stuff doesn't say much about your discerment of scripture.
    So that proves what? The end of the world!
    Spare us, and don't waste you time. Do your own homework.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  13. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    You're not getting an answer until you recognize that the word NEAR in James 5 isn't the same word as NEAR in Mathew 32. You wouldn't know that.
    This is what makes arguing Preterism a waste of time. It's endless. If you noticed, 'Parousia' went from one verse to another to another, putting little effort in this discussion TAKING EVERY ONE OF THEM OUT OF CONTEXT!
    The parable one is a good one.
    Stop with the lines "was Paul wrong" or "was James mistaken" stuff would you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  14. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Near in James 5:8
    Word: eggizw
    Pronounce: eng-id'-zo
    Strongs Number: G1448

    Orig: from 1451; to make near, i.e. (reflexively) approach:--approach, be at hand, come (draw) near, be (come, draw) nigh. G1451

    Use: TDNT-2:330,194 Verb

    Heb Strong:{\up\ul\f3\fs14\cf14}\plain\f3\fs21\cf23 H2040H2114 H2363 H3176 H3369 H3671 H4291 H5060 H5066H6960 H7126


    1. 1) to bring near, to join one thing to another
      2) to draw or come near to, to approach
    Compare to:
    Near from Matthew 24:33

    Word: egguj

    Pronounce: eng-goos'

    Strongs Number: G1451

    Orig: from a primary verb agcho (to squeeze or throttle; akin to the base of 43); near (literally or figuratively, of place or time):--from , at hand, near, nigh (at hand, unto), ready. G43

    Use: TDNT-2:330,194 Adverb

    Heb Strong: H251 H4136 H6102 H7126 H7138H7200


    1. 1) near, of place and position
      1a) near
      1b) those who are near access to God
      1b1) Jews, as opposed to those who are alien from God and his blessings
      1b2) The Rabbis used the term "to make nigh" as equivalent to "to make a proselyte"
      2) of time
      2a) of times imminent and soon to come pass
    Interestingly, the word Jesus uses contains the more figurative, elastic definition while the word James uses has the more literal definition.... which is exactly opposite of what you are teaching...

    Rather it is you who completely removes the original audience from ANY application. Ignoring the Context.
    Such is the untenable fruit of futurism.
    Well, When the inspired apostle Paul infallibly says the end of the ages had come upon him and his contemporaries, and the inspired apostle James says the coming of the lord was at that time "near and at the doors" while fallible internet guy Hal a Peno says none of that is true, what conclusion can i come to other then that you believe Paul and James were wrong?

    When choosing which of the two polar opposite positions to believe, the inspired apostles James & Paul vs random, fallible internet guy Hal, my money is on James and Paul, every time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
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  15. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    It's the last time I'm going to listen to your comments that Paul and James were wrong.

    You're not worth the electrons I just spent dealing with you.

    Like I said, I had a better opinion of Catholics before I started dealing with you.

    I have more important things to do like shovel manure.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  16. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I really wish Hal A Peno would stop holding back, and would tell us how he really feels...
     
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  17. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    I'll stick around to be a sliver in your backside, I'm not here to badmouth Catholics, I have a family full of them. I got banned from the Catholic forum for standing up for the Protestants, and banned from Christian forums for standing up for the Catholic's.

    I like debunking people, and you're on the list. But I've learned that people like you don't change your mind because it's part of your religion, regardless if it is or isn't good hermeneutics.
    You don't have what it takes to keep up with me, but when the time comes, I'll try not to embarrass you too much.
     
  18. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm just ecstatic to have made it on to your list, and am eagerly anticipating being a debunkee. That will be a new experience for me.
     
  19. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    That's your interpretation of me my friend.

    Jesus has reigned since His resurrection! Jesus won. He beat evil. He gave us The Way, The Truth and the Life.

    People who claim doom and gloom from Revelation do not fully understand that book. The Preterist/ Partial Preterist view, for me, is the correct view.
     
  20. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled

    Which generation? Obviously the APOSTLES generation! Not 2,000 years away!

     
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