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Featured So what's with all the weird stuff

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Jenniferdiana, Aug 3, 2017.

  1. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I certainly agree that there are Second Coming prophecies yet to be fulfilled. The challenge in prophetic interpretation is to "rightly divide the Word" to recognize what has been fulfilled, and what is yet to be fulfilled. Would you agree with that?
     
  2. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    'Rightly divide the Word', is a saying used by dispensationalists, often to denigrate and accuse anyone who challenges their beliefs. I treat it as a useless comment.

    But regarding what has been fulfilled and what hasn't, really what the preterists promote is just ridiculous, as the historical record simply doesn't support the fulfilment of most of the prophesies.
     
  3. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    God's prophecy was completed by 70AD, even though, I still think that maybe 1% of Revelation is yet to happen.
     
  4. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Yea, lots got wiped out in 70AD.
     
  5. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    If I asked you questions about Mathew 24 or the book of Revelation would you be ready to answer them?
     
  6. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    As I'm sure you're aware, "rightly dividing the Word of Truth" is actual Scripture from 2 Timothy 2:15. It means and has always meant "accurately handling", notwithstanding its "dispensationalized private interpretation". As inspired Scripture, it's hardly "useless comment".

    Woodrow's exposition is virtually completely preterist. I thought you agreed with it. Have you changed your mind? If so, what do you disagree with?
     
  7. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Well, because Paul taught that the end of the ages had come upon him and his 1st century contemporaries and you said you would never believe such, that's why

    Jesus promising the scribes and Pharisees that they would be destroyed and His vineyard would be leased to another nation who would render its fruit is not prophesy?

    Really???

    According to scripture, The Pharisees understood it was a prophesy about them.

    Do you disagree?

    Do you believe that already happened or are we still waiting for that to come to pass?
     
  8. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    I expect so.
    Ask away.

    Would you likewise be ready to answer any Matt 24 and Revelation questions directed at you?

    Here's one:
    When Jesus said "when you see all these things, know that it is near, at the doors" (Matt 24:33) what did he mean by near? Near in Gods time or near in Human time?

    In my experience, Futurists are never consistent about this.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  9. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    'rightly dividing the Word of truth', is a 16th century KJV expression. This is my aim:
    2 Timothy 2:15 Try hard to show yourself worthy of God's approval, as a worker with no cause for shame and keep strictly to the true Gospel. REBible

    Far from being a preterist, I believe in the literal fulfilment, [excepting obvious allegories] of all Bible prophecy. And I expect it all to happen within my lifetime.
    People like Parousia, are in for a big surprise as they like to think they will never have to face trials and testing. God will, once again, act in His Creation. He did it before and now we are again is a very similar state 'as in the days of Noah'.
    Judgement will; must come, or our faith and the Bible are worthless.
     
  10. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with you and that means one of us is wrong. Not Paul like you insinuated. Paul never taught that the end of the age had come upon him. I had a better opinion of Catholics before I started dealing with you. Parables aren't prophecy, but if that's what you chose to believe have at it!

    Paul mentiones the gathering, the parousia, and the day of Christ. If you want to adhere to the heresy that this is all passed, have fun, I shouldn't be spending the time because there is so much Prophecy that there's no end tp Preterism.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  11. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    We are going through trials and testing now. We have been doing so since the church was born!
     
  12. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    So many people have got Revelations so wrong. I think they just love the idea of the end of time / earth etc.
     
  13. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    Preterism, even historicism denies entire books and hundreds on verses of prophecy. It's the only thing worse and more perverted than pre-trib. I hate it and it should be banned from eschatology forums.
     
  14. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    I thought it all ended in AD70?
     
  15. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    We should back up to verse 4 but I'll spare you.
    What did God mean when He told Adam that if he ate the forbidden fruit 'in that day' he would die?

    Immediately after the tribulation of those days...

    "Those days?" So what is the tribulatioon to you? Is it the time period betwee AD 33 and say AD100? Mathew was written around AD 70, or even AD 65 if you want. Preterist have changed that date otherwise they're debunked at the get go.

    You're telling me that only Israel is the recipient of this tribulation in AD 70 and that's what the entire chapter as well as the book of Revelation is all about. The correct dating of the NT books debunks Preterism. It's obvious the book was written late. Even if the book was written in AD 65, it just makes no sense that God would have ONE New Testament Prophet, NOT TO MENTION ALL THE OTHERS, author a book that had only 5 years to be fulfilled AFTER it was written! That renders the the book itself, as well as several other chapters, as useless since it barely had time to be preached, copied, or distributed in any way that would amount to anything. The same goes with verse 14...

    Mathew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    It makes no sense to believe that the "gospel of the kingdom," only had about 5 years to be preached, let alone be a witness unto all nations. NOT to mention that in that preterist timeframe, ALL the evens of Mathew 24 and the book of Revelation take place. Absolutely absurd.

    "The consumation of the age" and most of chapter 24 is the focus of Jesus' response to the question posed to him in verse 3!

    ....shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    The last trumpet sounds just days before the consummation of the age, the gathering and parousia happens and that is...
    "the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God."

    About the preaching of "the gospel of the kingdom" mentioned in Mathew 24:14

    Planetpreterist says,

    "Matthew, Mark, and Luke were all written before 70 A.D."

    So the same goes for all the prophecies of those books. The Preterist view is that every prophecy in Mathew, Mark, and Luke, and the entire book of Revelation, not to mention very other prophecy both New and old testament, fulfilled in a spand of just a few years after they were written is beyond absurd. Does anyone else see a problem with that?

    It's more endless than pre-trib and borderline anti-Christ because of it's deep state of denial. It's banned on some forums, and not something any Christian should believe in because like pre-trib it's so wrong it should be obvious as it denies hundreds of verses and entire books of prophecy. It's an abomination.

    32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

    33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

    My admonition???? "Learn a parable of the fig tree."

     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  16. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I fully agree with your REBible's rendering.

    There are very many examples of both literal and allegorical/spiritual fulfillment. Any given prophecy is either one or the other. Discerning which is applicable is where 2 Timothy 2:15 is applicable.

    Where do you get your opinion of Parousia70?

    You didn't answer my question about Woodrow.
     
  17. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

    Romans 16
    25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
    26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

    Colossians 1
    5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
    6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
    23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
     
  18. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    The 'testing and hardships' of our Western civilization? You must be joking!

    Luke 23:27-31 A great number of people followed Jesus on His way to execution, among them many women who mourned and lamented over Him. Jesus turned to them and said: Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, weep for yourselves and your children. For the days are coming when people will say: Happy are those who don’t have children to worry about. Because then all will call to the mountains “fall on us” and to the hills “hide us”.
    For if these things are done when the wood is green, what will happen when the wood is dry? Reference: REB, NIV.

    weep for yourselves’, For those in Jerusalem at that time, this warned them about the coming conquest and destruction by the Romans. But it is also a dual prophecy, as then the Christians were told to ‘take to the hills’ and they escaped to Pella, in the Northern Jordan valley. Luke 20:24

    For if these things are done when the wood is green, what will happen when the wood is dry?’ A Jewish proverb. An English equivalent: ‘You ain’t seen nuthin yet!’ Green wood doesn’t burn well, dry wood does, so Jesus is saying: you can expect a lot worse carnage and violence to come in a later event.
    fall on us and hide us’, This is paralleled by Revelation 6:15-17 and Isaiah 2:21, both in passages that vividly describe the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath. As Jesus quoted Isaiah 61:1-2a at the commencement of His ministry, what follows in verse 2b is the Day when He will destroy His enemies: those who attack Israel and all the ungodly peoples. Deuteronomy 32:34-35, Psalms 83, Isaiah 2:12-21, Isaiah 5:25, Isaiah 33:10-12, Isaiah 63:1-6, Isaiah 66:15-16, Ezekiel 20:46-47, Joel 1:15, Psalms 97:3-5, Malachi 4:1, Hebrews 10:27
     
  19. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    It's not hard: that which can be literally fulfilled; will be. That which is allegorical, can usually be explained by other scripture or by using common sense.
    He and I have clashed many times before. Neither of us will budge an inch for our beliefs, so I await the unfolding of God's plans for my vindication from him.
    He's a 'dyed in the wool' preterist. He is in for a shock, like Parousia, when the Lord comes in His fiery wrath.
     
  20. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    Anyone using just a little logic shouldn't have to wonder why after jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
    The verse that follows the time frame going right over a preterist head.

    Jesus said,
    Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
     
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