So what's with all the weird stuff

[jgr]

It's not hard: that which can be literally fulfilled; will be. That which is allegorical, can usually be explained by other scripture or by using common sense.

Genesis 3:15 is the first prophecy in Scripture. Is it literal or allegorical?

He's a 'dyed in the wool' preterist. He is in for a shock, like Parousia, when the Lord comes in His fiery wrath.

Still didn't answer the question. What do you disagree with in his exegesis?

 

[Hal A Peno]

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Colossians 1
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

You can make Hitler look like a saint the way you interprete scripture. You don't look at the lexicons to see what key words are used key for all, earth/world, nations, etc. In other words, you don't know how to do it.

What you do is the first thing good interpreters complain about. You inundate people with scripture.

 

[jgr]

You can make Hitler look like a saint the way you interprete scripture. ou don't look at the lexicons to see what key words are used key for all, earth/world, nations, etc. In other words, you don't know how to do it.

What you do is the first thing good interpreters complain about You inandate people with scripture.

Thanks for the chuckle; I needed that.

You're more than welcome to show us how to do it.

If you're inundated, you can cover some of the Scripture with a sheet of paper until you resurface.

 

[keras]

Genesis 3:15 is the first prophecy in Scripture. Is it literal or allegorical?

Its allegorical, as Jesus was not wounded in the heel. It means just what we are fully aware of; the enmity and division between Christians and the world.

Still didn't answer the question. What do you disagree with in his exegesis?

He says that Bible prophecy is finished, over with, done and dusted.
That idea is just about the most foolish thing possible and simply leaves those who believe it; in the dark.

 

[jgr]

Its allegorical, as Jesus was not wounded in the heel. It means just what we are fully aware of; the enmity and division between Christians and the world.

Completely agree. But I've certainly encountered those of our brethren who insist that it's literal, even when they interpret it allegorically, which of course they can't avoid doing.

He says that Bible prophecy is finished, over with, done and dusted.
That idea is just about the most foolish thing possible and simply leaves those who believe it; in the dark.

Where did he say that? He has demonstrated, with abundant Scriptural and historical evidence, that that particular portion of the prophecy has been fulfilled. But farther down in a subsequent portion of the prophecy (which I haven't yet included), he provides other evidence that that particular portion is referring to the Second Coming.

He does what all responsible preterists and historicists do: Use God-given wisdom and discernment to intelligently apply 2 Timothy 2:15 to the study of Scripture and prophecy.

 

[Goatee]

Preterism, even historicism denies entire books and hundreds on verses of prophecy. It's the only thing worse and more perverted than pre-trib. I hate it and it should be banned from eschatology forums.

No, it does not deny any part of scripture. It interprets it correctly, thats what it does!

 

[Goatee]

I thought it all ended in AD70?

Christians have, and will continue to suffer. Jesus said to pick up your cross and follow Him. The gate is narrow!

 

[Goatee]

The 'testing and hardships' of our Western civilization? You must be joking!

Luke 23:27-31 A great number of people followed Jesus on His way to execution, among them many women who mourned and lamented over Him. Jesus turned to them and said: Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, weep for yourselves and your children. For the days are coming when people will say: Happy are those who don’t have children to worry about. Because then all will call to the mountains “fall on us” and to the hills “hide us”.
For if these things are done when the wood is green, what will happen when the wood is dry? Reference: REB, NIV.

‘weep for yourselves’, For those in Jerusalem at that time, this warned them about the coming conquest and destruction by the Romans. But it is also a dual prophecy, as then the Christians were told to ‘take to the hills’ and they escaped to Pella, in the Northern Jordan valley. Luke 20:24

‘For if these things are done when the wood is green, what will happen when the wood is dry?’ A Jewish proverb. An English equivalent: ‘You ain’t seen nuthin yet!’ Green wood doesn’t burn well, dry wood does, so Jesus is saying: you can expect a lot worse carnage and violence to come in a later event.
‘fall on us and hide us’, This is paralleled by Revelation 6:15-17 and Isaiah 2:21, both in passages that vividly describe the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath. As Jesus quoted Isaiah 61:1-2a at the commencement of His ministry, what follows in verse 2b is the Day when He will destroy His enemies: those who attack Israel and all the ungodly peoples. Deuteronomy 32:34-35, Psalms 83, Isaiah 2:12-21, Isaiah 5:25, Isaiah 33:10-12, Isaiah 63:1-6, Isaiah 66:15-16, Ezekiel 20:46-47, Joel 1:15, Psalms 97:3-5, Malachi 4:1, Hebrews 10:27

Yes, Jesus was saying about the terrible things that were going to happen to Jerusalem.

Plus, we have to remember that the Jews have been persecuted all through history! Jesus knew what was ahead for them!

 

[keras]

He does what all responsible preterists and historicists do: Use God-given wisdom and discernment to intelligently apply 2 Timothy 2:15 to the study of Scripture and prophecy.

If Parousia, and Goatee, were less adamant with their beliefs and not so scathing of those who disagree with them, then it may be possible to discus these things in a civilized fashion.
Until then; they can keep their ideas and I will stick to what the Bible actually tells us will happen.

 

[jgr]

If Parousia, and Goatee, were less adamant with their beliefs and not so scathing of those who disagree with them, then it may be possible to discus these things in a civilized fashion.
Until then; they can keep their ideas and I will stick to what the Bible actually tells us will happen.

I obviously have to defer to them for their responses. But, all of us have to confess to being adamant and scathing in varying frequencies and degrees. They're just very human characteristics.

 

[Hal A Peno]

Completely agree. But I've certainly encountered those of our brethren who insist that it's literal, even when they interpret it allegorically, which of course they can't avoid doing.

Where did he say that? He has demonstrated, with abundant Scriptural and historical evidence, that that particular portion of the prophecy has been fulfilled. But farther down in a subsequent portion of the prophecy (which I haven't yet included), he provides other evidence that that particular portion is referring to the Second Coming.

He does what all responsible preterists and historicists do: Use God-given wisdom and discernment to intelligently apply 2 Timothy 2:15 to the study of Scripture and prophecy.

There are no responsible preterist or hidtoricist. How can somebody be responsible handling God's prophetic Word when they throw it away in a history that never happened.

 

[Goatee]

If Parousia, and Goatee, were less adamant with their beliefs and not so scathing of those who disagree with them, then it may be possible to discus these things in a civilized fashion.
Until then; they can keep their ideas and I will stick to what the Bible actually tells us will happen.

Excuse me but I have not been critical or scathing to anyone! I have only posted what 'I' believe!

 

[Hal A Peno]

No, it does not deny any part of scripture. It interprets it correctly, thats what it does!

What DIDN'T happen in the first century debunks Preterism.

It's a waste of time deicussing this with you because there are hundreds if not a thousand verses of prophecy Preterist have perverted into history leaving those who live in he last days, like keras said, "IN THE DARK." Even a crash course in Preterism wouldn't be enough to explain it since there's so much prophecy you people have neglected and destroyed by saying the cop out line, IT ALREADY HAPPENED. Preterism is an outrite evil far worse than any other false doctrine that has ever entered the church. It's far more deceitful than pre-trib, and an outrite lie and slap in the face of God almighty.

 

[Hal A Peno]

Christians have, and will continue to suffer. Jesus said to pick up your cross and follow Him. The gate is narrow!

You mean that didn't END in 70AD? Everything else did!

 

[Goatee]

What DIDN'T happen in the first century debunks Preterism.

It's a waste of time deicussing this with you because there are hundreds if not a thousand verses of prophecy Preterist have perverted into history leaving those who live in he last days, like keras said, "IN THE DARK." Even a crash course in Preterism wouldn't be enough to explain it since there's so much prophecy you people have neglected and destroyed by saying the cop out line, IT ALREADY HAPPENED. Preterism is an outrite evil far worse than any other false doctrine that has ever entered the church. It's far more deceitful than pre-trib, and an outrite lie and slap in the face of God almighty.

Says you who have not read about it properly. I am not a full Preterist.

 

[Goatee]

You mean that didn't END in 70AD? Everything else did!

Again, I am not a full Preterist and even then, full Preterist don't believe that people won't suffer etc! You need to do some proper research buddy

 

[jgr]

There are no responsible preterist or hidtoricist. How can somebody be responsible handling God's prophetic Word when they throw it away in a history that never happened.

"History that never happened" is about as risible a claim as can be made. Please show us any.

 

[Hal A Peno]

"History that never happened" is about as risible a claim as can be made. Please show us any.

Maybe you can show me how ONE chapter of prophecy was completely fulfilled in 5 years or less, let alone the book od Revelation....

Matthew 24 King James Version (KJV)
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[parousia70]

Paul never taught that the end of the age had come upon him.

"Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come."
1 Corinthians 10:11

Parables aren't prophecy, but if that's what you chose to believe have at it!

Hold that thought....

 

[parousia70]

We should back up to verse 4 but I'll spare you.
What did God mean when He told Adam that if he ate the forbidden fruit 'in that day' he would die?

Immediately after the tribulation of those days...

"Those days?" So what is the tribulatioon to you? Is it the time period betwee AD 33 and say AD100? Mathew was written around AD 70, or even AD 65 if you want. Preterist have changed that date otherwise they're debunked at the get go.

You're telling me that only Israel is the recipient of this tribulation in AD 70 and that's what the entire chapter as well as the book of Revelation is all about. The correct dating of the NT books debunks Preterism. It's obvious the book was written late. Even if the book was written in AD 65, it just makes no sense that God would have ONE New Testament Prophet, NOT TO MENTION ALL THE OTHERS, author a book that had only 5 years to be fulfilled AFTER it was written! That renders the the book itself, as well as several other chapters, as useless since it barely had time to be preached, copied, or distributed in any way that would amount to anything. The same goes with verse 14...

Mathew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

It makes no sense to believe that the "gospel of the kingdom," only had about 5 years to be preached, let alone be a witness unto all nations. NOT to mention that in that preterist timeframe, ALL the evens of Mathew 24 and the book of Revelation take place. Absolutely absurd.

"The consumation of the age" and most of chapter 24 is the focus of Jesus' response to the question posed to him in verse 3!

....shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The last trumpet sounds just days before the consummation of the age, the gathering and parousia happens and that is...
"the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God."

About the preaching of "the gospel of the kingdom" mentioned in Mathew 24:14

Planetpreterist says,

"Matthew, Mark, and Luke were all written before 70 A.D."

So the same goes for all the prophecies of those books. The Preterist view is that every prophecy in Mathew, Mark, and Luke, and the entire book of Revelation, not to mention very other prophecy both New and old testament, fulfilled in a spand of just a few years after they were written is beyond absurd. Does anyone else see a problem with that?

It's more endless than pre-trib and borderline anti-Christ because of it's deep state of denial. It's banned on some forums, and not something any Christian should believe in because like pre-trib it's so wrong it should be obvious as it denies hundreds of verses and entire books of prophecy. It's an abomination.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Is it possible for you to answer my question?

What did Jesus mean by NEAR in Matthew 24:33?
Near in Gods View or Near in Man's?

Should be a simple question for your to answer, but you took several paragraphs to dance around and do anything BUT answer it..
Are you unable to answer it or just unwilling??

My admonition???? "Learn a parable of the fig tree."

You just admonished me that Parables are not prophesy, remember...?
Having a change of heart?