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SabbathBlessings

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Nothing in those posts specifically addresses Hebrews 7:12, 18; Romans 7:18, 8:3; nor
Ephesians 2:15.

I await your exegesis of them as they relate to your argument.

Yes, you are dodging and wanting to argue about the argument itself, rather than refute the argument itself, through exegesis of the Scriptures I presented, showing they do not teach what I state they do.
Yes, I’ll spend some time specifically addressing these three verses. None of them say that we are free to break the commandments of God which is what you seem to be teaching. Have some things I need to take of now, but will address a little later.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Of Course Not.
Are you saying we can be saved if we just live a sin free life? We don't need to accept Jesus as long as we don't sin?
Are you saying we can't be saved if we are Sinners?



Where I'm sitting, the Church is turning the world upside down, Subduing Kingdoms and Establishing righteousness (Hebrews 11:32-33), and making disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19), which are tasks at which She Can not fail (Matthew 16:18) and Jesus Christ is Reconciling the world unto Himself (2 Corinthians 5:18-20), as predicted in scripture.


Nobody here is arguing against that.
Sorry if I misunderstood you.

Of course you need to accept Jesus and of course we can be saved if we repent for our sins. True repentance means to turn from sin and gain victory over our sin. Jesus teaches we can overcome our sins with the help of the Holy Spirit John 14:15-18 for those who want to obey God.

Sin is abundant now but the Bible teaches the Word of God will spread to the whole world right before Jesus comes, which is happening now. I am looking forward to the day our Savior comes.


God bless
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Nothing in those posts specifically addresses Hebrews 7:12, 18; Romans 7:18, 8:3; nor
Ephesians 2:15.


Yes, you are dodging and wanting to argue about the argument itself, rather than refute the argument itself, through exegesis of the Scriptures I presented, showing they do not teach what I state they do.

Hebrews 7:12 is referring to the change in Priesthood and Jesus is our High Priest in the New Covenant. It mentions a change in law but does not say God’s Ten Commandments are abolished. So which laws changed? Let’s let scripture answer that question. @LoveGodsWord put this together a while back which addresses all of your scriptures and does not contradict the previous scriptures I posted that shows Jesus and the disciples still quoting from the Ten Commandments in the New Covenant.

What changed is the law of ordinances regarding blood sacrifice and food offerings, circumcision, not the commandments of God that are now written in our hearts in the New Covenant Hebrews 10:16

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCESof divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

HEBREWS 10 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

EPHESIANS 2 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

HEBREWS 13 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

ORDINANCES that were against us is referring to the also referring to the PENALTY of SIN (breaking God’s Commandments and the ORDINANCES of curses written once again in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant.

DEUT 31 [26] TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the side of the ark of the COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUT 29 [21]
And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, ACCORDING TO ALL THE CURSES OF THE COVENANT that are WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.

(See the list of ORDINACES for curses of breaking Gods’ Law in DEUTERONOMY 28:15-68)

CONCLUSION; COL 2:14 is talking about the CIVIL CEREMONIAL AND ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES written in the MOSIAC BOOK of the Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION. This is supported also by the within CHAPTER CONTEXT and SUBJECT matter of v16 which are all CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOCAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not referring to ABOLISHING God’s 10 Commandments.


In Romans Paul is discussing the struggle with the law and in that same chapter he says Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Paul is in no way saying we are free to break the commandments of God. He tells us what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19.

God’s laws are the very essence of the character of God, not sure why anyone would want to argue that the laws of God are abolished. They are written in our heart in the New Covenant and we obey because thats how we show our love to God John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6 and how Jesus knows us Matthew 7:23, 1 John 2:4
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The law points out sin Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7 we need to know what the problem is so we can find the solution, which is to keep the commandments and Jesus will give us the Holy Spirit to help for those who want to obey. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32
Absolutely this is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 9:11-13 when he says to the Scribes and the Pharisees "[11], And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to his disciples, Why eats your Master with publicans and sinners? [12], But when Jesus heard that, he said to them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. [13], But go you and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. This is the purpose of God's law. It is the schoolmaster to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25. It shows us that we are all sinners in need of Gods' salvation and the great physician who is Jesus who takes away the sins of the world and Gods' sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all.

God bless
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Hello Clare I know this was posted to someone else. Hope you do not mind me passing a few comments....
You are correct, the law is not made just obsolete, it is abolished.
This teaching of lawlessness under the new covenant that many have been deceived into believing is unbiblical nonsense not supported by the scriptures.
All that remains is the Decalogue, which is fulfilled in Jesus NT commands of Matthew 22:37-41 (Romans 13:8-10).

According to the scriptures unless we are born again we cannot enter into the Kingdom of heaven *John 3:3-7. We need to be born again into Gods' new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. We need to be Born again according to John because we commit sin and we do not have the love of God in us (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6; John 5:42) and sin is defined as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments (James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7 and Romans 3:20).

According to the scriptures Love (the Spirit of the law from the heart) is not separate from God's law (10 commandments). Love is expressed in obedience to God' law resulting in the fulfilling of the letter of the law". Therefore ""Love is not separate from God's law it is expressed in obedience to God' law.

This is actually expressed in the very scriptures you provided in your post in Matthew 22:36-40 and Romans 13:8-10 and also in James 2:8-12 and in 1 John 5:2-3 as shown below...

Matthew 22:36-40 [36], Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37], Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Jesus is not saying that love is separate from God's law he is says that on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets which is what Gods' Word says that are not my words but Gods' Word which have been simply repeated to you verbatim. Paul agrees with Jesus when he says...

Romans 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another hath fulfilled the law [past tense]. [9], FOR THIS (or what this means), THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP IN THE SAYING, NAMELY THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS YOUR SELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law [present tense active].

Paul is agreeing with Jesus and not saying that love is separate from God's law he is says that love is expressed in obedience to Gods law and says that if we love another we will obey those commandments in God's 10 commandments (letter of the law) that show us how we are to love our fellow man by quoting those commandments verbatim. Paul is showing that to love our neighbor as our self is simply summing up those commandments in God's law that show us how we are to love our fellow man. These once again are God's Word not my words which have only been repeated to you from the scriptures. James also agrees with Jesus and Paul where he says...

James 2:8-12 [8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:[9], But if ye have respect to persons, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

James agrees with Jesus and Paul where he links loving our neighbor as our self to obedience to all those commandments in Gods 10 commandments (letter of the law) that show us our duty of love to our neighbor. Once again these are God's Word not my words which have only been repeated to you from the scriptures verbatim. John also agrees with Jesus Paul and James where he says...

1 John 5:2-3 [2], By this we know that we love the children of God, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [3], FOR THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

.........................

Jesus did not fulfill the law so that we no longer have to. Jesus fulfilled the law because he is our example and we are to follow him *1 Peter 2:21. He also kept the law perfectly to be Gods' sinless sacrifice for the sins of the world because the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's Grace (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-31). If God's law in the new covenant is abolished than Jesus would not have had to die for our sins. This is a teaching of lawlessness (without law) and is a false teaching that has led many away from God and His Word. According to the scriptures without holiness (that comes from God - Philippines 2:13) no man can see God *Hebrews 12:14 and unless a man is born again into Gods' new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 he cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven. According to Jesus Gods' salvation is from sin *John 8:31-36 not a license to continue to live a life of known unrepentant sin. If we live a life of sin we are in danger of the judgement according to Paul in Hebrews 10:26-31 and the wages of sin is death *Romans 6:23.

Hope this is helpful
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Nothing in those posts specifically addresses Hebrews 7:12, 18; Romans 7:18, 8:3; nor
Ephesians 2:15.

I await your exegesis of them as they relate to your argument.

Yes, you are dodging and wanting to argue about the argument itself, rather than refute the argument itself, through exegesis of the Scriptures I presented, showing they do not teach what I state they do.

Once again I know this is to someone else so I hope you do not mind me commenting again on your post. None of the above scriptures you have quoted are in context or speaking about Gods' 10 commandments. They are to the laws of the Priesthood and the laws in "ordinances" not God's 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken under the new covenant *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4.

Hebrews 7:12 for example when you look at the chapter context is talking about the laws of the Priesthood because only those from the tribe of Levi where allowed to be High Priest in the old covenant. Jesus was from the tribe of Judah so there had to be a change in the law to accommodate this....

Hebrews 7:1-28
[1], FOR THIS MELCHISEDEC, KING OF SALEM, PRIEST OF THE MOST HIGH GOD, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
[2], To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; FIRST BEING BY INTERPRETATION KING OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND AFTER THAT ALSO KING OF SALEM, WHICH IS, KING OF PEACE;
[3], WITHOUT FATHER, WITHOUT MOTHER, WITHOUT DESCENT, HAVING NEITHER BEGINNING OF DAYS, NOR END OF LIFE; BUT MADE LIKE TO THE SON OF GOD; STAYS A PRIEST CONTINUALLY.
[4], Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
[5], And truly they that are of the SONS OF LEVI, WHO RECEIVE THE OFFICE OF THE PRIESTHOOD, HAVE A COMMANDMENT TO TAKE TITHES OF THE PEOPLE ACCORDING TO THE LAW, that is, of their brothers, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

NOTE: In the earthly Sanctuary only those from the tribe of Levi could be Priests. Jesus was from the tribe of Judah also note that the context of the chapter now is the Priesthood and the king and Priest (before Sinai) in the days of Abraham named Melchisedec.

[6], But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
[7], And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
[8], And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.
[9], And as I may so say, Levi also, who receives tithes, paid tithes in Abraham.
[10], For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
[11], IF THEREFORE PERFECTION WERE BY THE LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD, FOR UNDER IT THE PEOPLE RECEIVED THE LAW, WHAT FURTHER NEED WAS THERE THAT ANOTHER PRIEST SHOULD RISE AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC, AND NOT BE CALLED AFTER THE ORDER OF AARON?

NOTE: Topic is on the Levitical Priesthood the law we are talking about are the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *Exodus 40:12-15; Leviticus 1-23. The Priesthood was to be only for the tribe of Levi under the OLD COVENANT.

[12], FOR THE PRIESTHOOD BEING CHANGED, THERE IS MADE OF NECESSITY A CHANGE ALSO OF THE LAW.
[13], FOR HE OF WHOM THESE THINGS ARE SPOKEN PERTAINS TO ANOTHER TRIBE, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
[14], FOR IT IS EVIDENT THAT OUR LORD SPRANG OUT OF JUDA; OF WHICH TRIBE MOSES SPOKE NOTHING CONCERNING PRIESTHOOD.
[15], And it is yet far more evident: for that AFTER THE SIMILITUDE OF MELCHISEDEC THERE RISES ANOTHER PRIEST,

NOTE: Jesus from the tribe of Judah is now our great high Priest from the order of Melchisedec. No more animal sacrifices.

[16], WHO IS MADE, NOT AFTER THE LAW OF A CARNAL COMMANDMENT, but after the power of an endless life.
[17], For he testifies, YOU ARE A PRIEST FOR EVER AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC.
[18], FOR THERE IS TRULY A CANCELLATION OF THE COMMANDMENT going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
[19], FOR THE LAW MADE NOTHING PERFECT, BUT THE BRINGING IN OF A BETTER HOPE DID; BY THE WHICH WE DRAW NEAR TO GOD.
[20], And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
[21], For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said to him, The Lord swore and will not repent, YOU ARE A PRIEST FOR EVER AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC
[22], By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
[23], And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
[24], BUT THIS MAN, BECAUSE HE CONTINUES EVER, HAS AN UNCHANGEABLE PRIESTHOOD.
[25], Why he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come to God by him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them.
[26], FOR SUCH AN HIGH PRIEST BECAME US, WHO IS HOLY, HARMLESS, UNDEFILED, SEPARATE FROM SINNERS, AND MADE HIGHER THAN THE HEAVENS;
[27], Who needs not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
[28], FOR THE LAW MAKES MEN HIGH PRIESTS which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, WHICH WAS SINCE THE LAW, MAKES THE SON, WHO IS CONSECRATED FOR EVER MORE.

NOTE: v28 does the 10 commandments make men high Priests or does the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *Exodus 40:12-15; Leviticus 1-23?

.............

CONCLUSION: Hebrews 7:12 in relation to the change of laws is talking about the change in the Mosiac book of the law for the Priesthood not the 10 commandments and a change in the Priesthood and the laws that accompany it. JESUS is our true great high priest from the order of Melchisedec meaning KING AND RIGHTEOUSNESS.

..............

Let's look at Ephesians 2:15 which says [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby

If you look up the Greek Word for "ordinances" it says laws that are either civil, ceremonial of ecclesiastical. Gods' 10 commandments are not contained in ordinances. They are moral laws that give us under both covenants the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172.

The context here in Ephesians 2:11-18 is the commandments of ordinances that under the old covenant that the Jews were to be a separate nation from the gentiles and not to mix with them (Exodus 34:11-17; Nehemiah 13:1-3). This was the wall of Jesus broke down by His death on the cross and His word now going to the whole world. Scripture context is provided below...

Ephesians 2:11-18
[11], WHY REMEMBER, THAT YOU BEING IN TIME PAST GENTILES IN THE FLESH, WHO ARE CALLED UNCIRCUMCISION BY THAT WHICH IS CALLED THE CIRCUMCISION IN THE FLESH MADE BY HANDS;

[12], That at THAT TIME YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, AND STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD:

[13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS YOU WHO SOMETIMES WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

[14], FOR HE IS OUR PEACE, WHO HAS MADE BOTH ONE, AND HAS BROKEN DOWN THE MIDDLE WALL OF PARTITION BETWEEN US;

[15], HAVING ABOLISHED IN HIS FLESH THE ENMITY, EVEN THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; FOR TO MAKE IN HIMSELF OF TWO ONE NEW MAN, SO MAKING PEACE;

[16], And THAT HE MIGHT RECONCILE BOTH TO GOD in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

[17], And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were near.
[18], For through him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

................

CONCLUSION:According to the scriptures and context provided above as well as the Greek word meaning of "ordinances"; the laws in ordinance are the laws of separation between the Jews and the gentiles and is not a reference to God's 10 commandments being abolished. That interpretation is not biblical and is a false teaching not supported in the new covenant scriptures. The role of God's 10 commandments in the new covenant is to give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25. For this reason it is the letter of the law that leads to the Spirit of the law in Gods' new covenant promise in all those who have been born again through faith *1 John 3:4-9

Take Care.
 
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Clare73

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Hebrews 7:12 is referring to the change in Priesthood and Jesus is our High Priest in the New Covenant. It mentions a change in law (singular)but does not say God’s Ten Commandments are abolished. So which laws changed?
The only law there was to change; i.e.,
the "law" of Moses, which was given under, and on the basis of, the Levitical priesthood (Hebrews 7:12), no priesthood = no valid law,
the "law" which was weak and useless to make perfect (Hebrews 7:18),
the "law" that was weak and powerless in that it was weakened by the sinful nature (flesh)--Romans 8:3,
the "law" that all who relied on were under a curse (Galatians 3:10),
the "law" that made no one righteous (Romans 3:20),
the "law" that was excluded from righteousness/justification (Romans 4:4-6),
the "law" with its commands and regulations that was abolished on the cross (Ephesians 2:15),

that law changed.
Let’s let scripture answer that question. @LoveGodsWord put this together a while back which addresses all of your scriptures and does not contradict the previous scriptures I posted that shows Jesus and the disciples still quoting from the Ten Commandments in the New Covenant.

What changed is the law of ordinances regarding blood sacrifice and food offerings, circumcision, not the commandments of God that are now written in our hearts in the New Covenant Hebrews 10:16

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCESof divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

HEBREWS 10 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

EPHESIANS 2 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

HEBREWS 13 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

ORDINANCES that were against us is referring to the also referring to the PENALTY of SIN (breaking God’s Commandments and the ORDINANCES of curses written once again in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant.

DEUT 31 [26] TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the side of the ark of the COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUT 29 [21]
And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, ACCORDING TO ALL THE CURSES OF THE COVENANT that are WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.

(See the list of ORDINACES for curses of breaking Gods’ Law in DEUTERONOMY 28:15-68)

CONCLUSION; COL 2:14 is talking about the CIVIL CEREMONIAL AND ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES written in the MOSIAC BOOK of the Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION. This is supported also by the within CHAPTER CONTEXT and SUBJECT matter of v16 which are all CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOCAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not referring to ABOLISHING God’s 10 Commandments.
Your copied material presents Hebrews 9, 10, 13; Ephesians 2; Deuteronomy 29, 31, and does not specifically address Hebrews 7:12, 18; Romans 7:18; Ephesians 2:15.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Your copied material presents Hebrews 9, 10, 13; Ephesians 2; Deuteronomy 29, 31, and does not specifically address Hebrews 7:12, 18; Romans 7:18; Ephesians 2:15.

The scriptures came straight from the bible and directly responds to all of the scripture you quoted all you have to do is read it. You have yet to provide scripture that's says we are now allowed to worship other gods, vain Gods name, bow to idols, break God's holy Sabbath day, covet, steal, bear false witness, not honor our parents, commit murder and adultery. If you think these type of behavior and is the character God wants for His children, I am going to leave that between you and God. God bless
 
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andreha

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Well, none of us are perfect - that's for sure. But how much does it help to live a life of agony knowing you cannot fix yourself? If we follow the Spirit, we grow in love. And then, we start changing. The more we follow the Spirit's lead, and grow in love, we'll become stronger in obedience too.
 
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parousia70

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Sorry if I misunderstood you.

No worries. I think we're both on the same page.
I'll try a better illustration.

We Both Agree that Murderers can be Saved.
We Both agree that people who Don't murder, can still be Lost, Unsaved, and Damned.

Therefore, it's not Murder that determines Whether one is saved or not.

The Sin of Murder is not the measuring Stick.
Likewise, the Sins of Lying, Stealing, Adultry, Gluttony etc..(indeed ANY sin) are not measuring sticks.
For we both agree that people who NEVER engage in those sins can still be Lost.

BELIEF is the measuring stick.
Sinners who turn to Jesus and BELIEVE can be saved.
People who don't committ ANY sins, Yet refuse To Turn to Jesus, are Lost. They have NO HOPE in Salvation.

You can have been the Gravest of Sinners your entire life, yet if in your dying breath you confess In Jesus and honestly ask for forgiveness in your heart, you WILL be 100% Forgiven, and be awarded Salvation and eternal Life IN Christ, right next to the one who has believed and obeyed for their entire life. And the one who has believed and obeyed their entire life must not boast against or complain about the grave sinner who repented and believed at their dying breath.
As Jesus illlustrates in Matthew 20:1-16, He REJOICES in, and REWARDS both people EQUALLY.

Whether one has committed any Sins or not, is NOT the deciding factor.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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No worries. I think we're both on the same page.
I'll try a better illustration.

We Both Agree that Murderers can be Saved.
We Both agree that people who Don't murder, can still be Lost, Unsaved, and Damned.

Therefore, it's not Murder that determines Whether one is saved or not.

The Sin of Murder is not the measuring Stick.
Likewise, the Sins of Lying, Stealing, Adultry, Gluttony etc..(indeed ANY sin) are not measuring sticks.
For we both agree that people who NEVER engage in those sins can still be Lost.

BELIEF is the measuring stick.
Sinners who turn to Jesus and BELIEVE can be saved.
People who don't committ ANY sins, Yet refuse To Turn to Jesus, are Lost. They have NO HOPE in Salvation.

You can have been the Gravest of Sinners your entire life, yet if in your dying breath you confess In Jesus and honestly ask for forgiveness in your heart, you WILL be 100% Forgiven, and be awarded Salvation and eternal Life IN Christ, right next to the one who has believed and obeyed for their entire life.

Whether one has committed any Sins or not, is NOT the deciding factor.
Yes, I agree it's not the law that saves, but obeying is considered good fruit and what separates us from being one of God's saints. That means if we slip and fall we have an Advocate with Jesus who is faithful and just to forgive us. People seem to believe that Jesus is okay with us living a life of perpetual sin. We can gain victory over our sins and Jesus provides us the Holy Spirit to help us obey John 14:15-18. When we walk with God's Spirit and have God's laws written on our hearts and mind we obey because of our love for our Savior and it is shown through our actions.

God bless!
 
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parousia70

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People seem to believe that Jesus is okay with us living a life of perpetual sin.

And other people seem to Believe Jesus is somehow incapable of Forgiving us of our sins EVERY TIME we commit them.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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And other people seem to Believe Jesus is somehow incapable of Forgiving us of our sins EVERY TIME we commit them.
Only Jesus knows our hearts. If we are sincerely sorry about committing the sin and asking Jesus to help us overcome the sin He will forgive us and provide the Holy Spirit to help us obey John 14:15-18. Jesus wants us to gain victory over sin. It's when we know we are sinning and continuing on that path is where we need to be really careful.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
 
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andreha

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Perpetual sin. Often discussed topic indeed. But, thankfully, the Spirit knows what causes folks to remain stuck in that rut. Sometimes, it is experienced by people who have nobody that cares for them, and they seek refuge. The Spirit has a way of showing us His love, and that frees us from those chains. Once we know we are truly loved, we start loving others more, and are more careful with how what we do may affect them.
 
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parousia70

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Only Jesus knows our hearts. If we are sincere about committing the sin and asking Jesus to help us overcome the sin He will forgive us and provide the Holy Spirit to help us obey John 14:15-18. Jesus wants us to gain victory over sin. It's when we know we are sinning and continuing on that path is where we need to be really careful.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Can you Name for me even ONE person who has believed, and has never sinned again?
I KNOW I'm not in that group. Are you?
ONLY those who Turn to Jesus and Believe at their dying breath, can claim membership in that group.

We ought not boast against the sins of our brothers and sisters.
We must FORGIVE them as Jesus Forgives us.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Perpetual sin. Often discussed topic indeed. But, thankfully, the Spirit knows what causes folks to remain stuck in that rut. Sometimes, it is experienced by people who have nobody that cares for them, and they seek refuge. The Spirit has a way of showing us His love, and that frees us from those chains. Once we know we are truly loved, we start loving others more, and are more careful with how what we do may affect them.
There are definitely people who have varying degrees of faith. We should grow in our faith as we are seeking our Lord and Savior with all of our hearts and minds and as we grow and strengthen our faith, the Holy Spirit will help lead us to all Truth and impress on us to correct our behavior and straighten our path. Obedience is a fruit of our faith when you love Jesus with all your heart you want to obey, which is what the New Covenant is about. God bless
 
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spiritfilledjm

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And other people seem to Believe Jesus is somehow incapable of Forgiving us of our sins EVERY TIME we commit them.

He is, but there is a big difference between choosing to live in sin and choosing to fight against one's temptation to sin.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Can you Name for me even ONE person who has believed, and has never sinned again?
I KNOW I'm not in that group. Are you?
ONLY those who Turn to Jesus and Believe at their dying breath, can claim membership in that group.

We ought not boast against the sins of our brothers and sisters.
We must FORGIVE them as Jesus Forgives us.
We are all sinners, but I do believe with God all things are possible even gaining victory over sin. Are you saying we should not strive to gain victory over sin?
 
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andreha

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There are definitely people who have varying degrees of faith. We should grow in our faith as we are seeking our Lord and Savior with all of our hearts and minds and as we grow and strengthen our faith, the Holy Spirit will help lead us to all Truth and impress on us to correct our behavior and straighten our path. Obedience is a fruit of our faith when you love Jesus with all your heart you want to obey, which is what the New Covenant is about. God bless

Indeed. And the only way to have victory is to walk in full submission to the Holy Spirit.
 
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parousia70

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He is, but there is a big difference between choosing to live in sin and choosing to fight against one's temptation to sin.

I agree. But I don't think its our Job to determine who is doing which, and therefore proclaim whether or not they are saved.
Our job is to FORGIVE ALL sinners, as Jesus forgives us.
 
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