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Featured Should Christians support Rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple.

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by DennisTate, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. Yes... the words of Ezekiel must come to pass.

    9 vote(s)
    14.3%
  2. No.... it will lead to the rise of the Anti-Christ fellow.

    8 vote(s)
    12.7%
  3. Yes.... living waters will flow from the restored Third Temple.

    2 vote(s)
    3.2%
  4. No... Christians must not support animal sacrifice.

    31 vote(s)
    49.2%
  5. I am not certain but I will research this question further.

    8 vote(s)
    12.7%
  6. No... this could cause a war to break out.

    5 vote(s)
    7.9%
  1. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    Yeah, gee, it's too bad that so many have missed the hidden gems in Torah that you have found. You can stay with your interpretation of what ancient scrolls say but I much prefer living in Christ and being guided by the Holy Spirit.
     
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  2. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    Paul speaking to Peter defended the gospel of Grace, since righteousness can NOT come through the LAW, indeed by the LAW is the knowledge of your sins. God established the New Covenant and the Old Covenant ways became obsolete and passed away. God also destroyed the temple and the priesthood and prevented any more sacrifices according to the Law, history proves that, so then why seek to re-establish what God has moved on from?
    If you seek righteousness by the LAW, the LAW proves you to be a LAW breaker and the soul that sins shall die and your a goner.

    Galatians 2
    15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

    Hebrews 8:13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


    Galatians 2
    No Return to the Law
    11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

    14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

    17 “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

    19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
    20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

    21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”
     
  3. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Prove what I stated as represented in the Torah about the city of refuge is in error. You, I, and everyone who has lived is guilty of manslaughter of the Son. Just like the Torah guidelines that a person guilty of manslaughter flee to a city of refuge, we must flee to our city of refuge, the Messiah.

    What seems to be in evidence is how much some really hate the the Torah. I think that is a very eye opening thing. And I am not sure that it can be matched up with the idea of living and being guided by the Spirit. Especially since the HS was behind the Torah. And the HS gave us the Torah to teach us of Messiah. Every detail, every law, in some way points to Yeshua. I guess some folks just don't like that.
     
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  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Well said... and here is a rather powerful warning from Ron Cantor....

     
  5. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    I am leaving this discussion. I am sad that you believe so much in Torah, as it is not and never has been the basis of Christianity. Christians live by the Spirit that has been given to them Jesus to guide them through life.

    BTW, I and all Christians are not guilty of manslaughter. WE HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN!! Torah guidelines have nothing to do with it. We don't have to flee to the Messiah, we are IN the Messiah. Don't say that people hate the Torah because they love the living God.

    Do you really mean to say, "And I am not sure that it can be matched up with the idea of living and being guided by the Spirit"? That is the very basis of being Christian.

    I will pray for you that God will open your eyes.
     
  6. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Too bad that you don't view the entire scripture as sacred. And yes, that would include the Torah, which is the 5 books of Moshe. The "Torah" simply means instruction. It comes from the root Yara which is the root for teacher.

    Yes, believers live by the spirit, but before they were believers they were guilty of manslaughter of the Messiah. And the Torah teaches that one guilty of manslaughter must flee to the city of refuge to be safe from the avenger of blood. In this case flee to Yeshua so that one is protected from the wrath of the Father against those who caused the death of His Son, which is everyone who has lived.

    The Torah also gives us the entire Christian Gospel via the meaning of the names of the lineage in Genesis 5 from Adam to Noah. Again, the Torah teaches us of Messiah. So unlike your assertion, the Torah lays out the basis of Christianity as clear as anything in the NT.

    That you cannot see the beauty in how the Torah teaches us of the Messiah is sad. Your hatred of the instruction of Yahweh is not good. And yes, it is hard to equate that with living and being guided by the Spirit. It is hard to comprehend how one can claim to believe in and love the Lord and at the same time despise the teaching the Lord has given us.... the entire scripture including Torah.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  7. Josheb

    Josheb Christian Supporter

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    The answer is "No," but the reason for that "no" is not merely reprehensible report for animal sacrifices. The entire theology of a third temple is corrupt. We, the redeemed and regenerate believers in the resurrected Son of God are the temple.

    1 Cor. 3:16 NAS
    "Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?"


    God does not dwell in houses made from human hands. He never did and never will. The heavens are His throne and the earth is His footstool. He is not going to live in a temple made on the footstool. The very notion is irrational and speaks of a corrupt theology that fails to understand God in some very fundamental ways.
     
  8. Josheb

    Josheb Christian Supporter

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    And I am sad that Torah as a basis of Christianity is not understood and that it is believed living by the Spirit is mutually exclusive of Torah when every single one of the NT writers referenced Torah (and Tanakh) and directed the NT believers to obedience... by the Spirit.

    I will pray that God will open your eyes.



    I'll also pray that God helps you to keep the posts about the posts and not the posters. The insinuated ad hominem is decidedly ungodly and not living by the Spirit (The HS does not argue fallaciously). It is a work of flesh (Gal. 5:20), and directly contrary to your own signature!
     
  9. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Genesis is the first book of the Torah. And in it is the complete description of the Christian Gospel if there ever was one. In the meaning of the names in the genealogy of Adam to Noah is the Gospel as clear as anything in the NT.

    Adam = Man
    Seth = Appointed
    Enosh = Mortal, frail
    Kenan = sorrow, dirge
    Mahalalel = Blessed God
    Yared = Shall Come Down
    Enoch = teaching, commencement
    Methuselah = death bring forth
    Lamech = lament, despair
    Noah = comfort, rest

    Now lay these meanings end to end in order and clean it up a little grammatically.....

    Man is appointed mortal sorrow. The Blessed God shall come down teaching that His death shall bring the despairing comfort and rest.

    If that isn't the total summation of the Gospel message, I don't know what is. and it has the fingerprints of the Holy Spirit all over it. It is an extremely hard sell to convince me that Hebrew scribes 4000 years ago conspired to hide the Christian Gospel in their venerated Torah.

    I can't help to be in awe of what a wonderful God and Savior we have. How everything from Genesis to Revelation speaks of the redemption by Him and thru Him. The very plan from the beginning.
     
  10. rnmomof7

    rnmomof7 Legend

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    The Temple was a type of Christ ... God destroyed it in 70 ad ending forever sacrifices for sin ... the NT tells us the saved are now the temple of Christ
     
  11. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    True, but there will be a future physical temple and it will include sacrifice according to Ezekiel. I don't believe it will be sacrifice for atonement but sacrifice as a example to those who are born and live in the Millennial kingdom to teach them of the cost of sin. Just like the feast observances of Leviticus 23 will be required to teach of the Messiah. And it is implied in the text that those who will not observe these feasts of Leviticus 23 will be punished to some degree.

    And some still think the Torah is no longer relevant.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  12. JLHargus

    JLHargus New Member

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    JL: There will be no other legitimate Temple, but that which the Son of God, Jesus the Christ the son of David and king of the regenerated heavenly Davidic Kingdom, the Israel of God, is building with living stones from which living water=Holy Spirit flows.

    Christ is now reigning in the regenerated Davidic kingdom, heavenly Jerusalem. Natural earthly Israel may at some point build a temple and do animal sacrifice but what would be the point.
     
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    How about this in reference to our bodies and minds truly being the temple of the Holy Spirit? This is a Southern Baptist pastor who works mostly in South America, Africa and eastern Europe.



    Paul Washer - Shocking Message (full length)
    2,646,630 views



     
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Idealist Preterist and Amill since 2003 Supporter

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    That is about it in a nutshell..............
     
  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Actually.... I believe that Christians who disregard this statement..........
    and all that is implied by it.......
    do not recognize that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus was Jewish... .and was and IS.... the Jewish Messiah who will sit on the throne of his grandfather King David...and on the throne of his grandfather Moses... because Mary - Myriam was partly descended from Levi!

    We Christians tend to make idols out of our denominations......
    and we think that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus think in the relatively small minded manner that we think in...........

    Luk 24:25

    Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
     
  16. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Idealist Preterist and Amill since 2003 Supporter

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    Who thinks the Torah is still irrelevant?
     
  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Not me!!!!!!!!

    Luk 24:25

    Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
     
  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    What about Ezekiel chapter thirty seven... do you believe in it being fulfilled?

    Multiverse Theory and multiple Ezekiel 37 type events.
     
  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    (The question was asked if a literal Ezekiel temple mount complex would be a step backwards for Messiah Yeshua - Jesus).... I replied:


    Basically.... Messiah Yeshua - Jesus has made covenants.......
    multiple covenants that remain in force in effect and
    in his mind..... do not contradict or negate each other.

    We humans find ourselves almost incapable of understanding how
    Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in his glorified resurrected form can handle all that
    ..... but to me it is obvious that He can!

    There is an Adamic covenant....
    there is a Mosaic covenant
    there is a Noahaic covenant (pardon my spelling please)
    there is a covenant with each of the twelve patriarch partly explained in Genesis 48
    and Genesis 49 if I remember correctly.......

    There are covenants with Abraham....
    Isaac/ Yitzhak and Jacob/ Yakob.....

    The covenants with David and with Levi were specified as being eternal.....

    but I believe that once the Word / Logos makes a covenant.....
    even one that is not necessarily recorded in scriptures.....
    that covenant / agreement remains in force and effect even if you or I know nothing about..... due to it being above our Security Clearance Level and pay scale.......!


    Luke 24:25 "Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:"

    Jeremiah 33
    16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely; and this is [the name] whereby she shall be called: Jehovah our righteousness.

    17 For thus saith Jehovah: David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel; 18 neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt-offerings, and to burn meal-offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

    19 And the word of Jehovah came unto Jeremiah, saying, 20 Thus saith Jehovah: If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, so that there shall not be day and night in their season; 21 then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he shall not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.

    22 As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured; so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.

    23 And the word of Jehovah came to Jeremiah, saying, 24 Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which Jehovah did choose, he hath cast them off? thus do they despise my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.

    25 Thus saith Jehovah: If my covenant of day and night [stand] not, if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; 26 then will I also cast away the seed of Jacob, and of David my servant, so that I will not take of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and will have mercy on them.


    Whom the heavens must receive until the restitution of all things?
     
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