Should Christians support Rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple.

Should Christians support Jerusalem Third Temple?

  • Yes... the words of Ezekiel must come to pass.

    Votes: 9 12.5%
  • No.... it will lead to the rise of the Anti-Christ fellow.

    Votes: 9 12.5%
  • Yes.... living waters will flow from the restored Third Temple.

    Votes: 2 2.8%
  • No... Christians must not support animal sacrifice.

    Votes: 38 52.8%
  • I am not certain but I will research this question further.

    Votes: 9 12.5%
  • No... this could cause a war to break out.

    Votes: 5 6.9%

  • Total voters
    72

DennisTate

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One of the best arguments that I have ran into as to why
Christians should support the Orthodox Jewish community
in their desire to rebuild their Jerusalem Third Temple is
a statement by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus:

Luke 24:25

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:"

So... all that the prophets have spoken would include Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48 that
clearly describe the restored Jerusalem Third Temple as part of the Era of Messiah / Moshiach.... .the millennial rule of Messiah over all the earth.

Also:
Luke 13:35

"Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

Was Ezekiel blessed?

Did Ezekiel come in the name of the Lord?

Is Christianity relatively desolate due to our having forgotten the words of the Prophets?
 

DennisTate

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I am of the belief that astonishing miracles will accompany the
rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple.

I believe that the prophecy about living waters flowing from the Temple in
two directions.... will be fulfilled both literally as well as metaphorically.

Literal living waters will restore land and two seas and metaphorically an
outpouring of the Holy Spirit on all flesh will occur that will amaze all
of humanity.


BIN EXCLUSIVE: Sanhedrin Asks Putin and Trump to Build Third Temple in Jerusalem
Read more at BIN EXCLUSIVE: Sanhedrin Asks Putin and Trump to Build Third Temple in Jerusalem
 
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timewerx

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One of the best arguments that I have ran into as to why
Christians should support the Orthodox Jewish community
in their desire to rebuild their Jerusalem Third Temple is
a statement by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus:

My answer would be a Maybe, leaning towards a No.

Maybe yes, we can help them rebuild the temple, but to partake in the rituals, that would be a huge NO.

The Jewish Orthodoxy (Judaism) is the modern day Pharisee sect.... Jesus warned us against them, read your Bibles.... Jesus went as far to tell their father is the devil.

The only thing that maybe of significance is the building....Imagine if we rebuild the temple and have the Jews defile the temple again.... Imagine what would Jesus do if He came and caught them in their act...

He won't be coming with a whip of cords this time and just overturning tables...but with all the glory and power of the Universe.
 
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Sultan Of Swing

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Jesus is the new Temple, and further Christians are also then the Temple of God, and subsequently after tearing that temple curtain we no longer need to go to a Temple to worship and have a relationship with God but now He lives in all of our hearts through the Holy Spirit.

So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” But he was speaking about the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken. (John 2:18-22)

“Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone, in whom the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.” Ephesians 2:19-22

“Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.” 1 Corinthians 3:17

“And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell in them And walk among them.I will be their God,And they shall be My people.” 2 Corinthians 6:16
 
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DennisTate

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My answer would be a Maybe, leaning towards a No.

Maybe yes, we can help them rebuild the temple, but to partake in the rituals, that would be a huge NO.

The Jewish Orthodoxy (Judaism) is the modern day Pharisee sect.... Jesus warned us against them, read your Bibles.... Jesus went as far to tell their father is the devil.

The only thing that maybe of significance is the building....Imagine if we rebuild the temple and have the Jews defile the temple again.... Imagine what would Jesus do if He came and caught them in their act...

He won't be coming with a whip of cords this time and just overturning tables...but with all the glory and power of the Universe.

This is an exceptionally good answer Timewerx!

I agree with you that we Christians have zero ownership over the Temple Mount area.....
and we have no idea or background as to the specific rituals that the restored
Levites and Rabbi's will be doing on the Temple Mount.

Actually, there is a huge difference between the Sanhedrin of the time of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus
with the Sanhedrin of our time because........
King Herod the Great chose many of the Rabbi's serving on the Sanhedrin of
his time period.......
and King Herod....DID NOT choose Rabbi's for their wisdom, sincerity
and zeal for the words of Moses and The Prophets!

King Herod chose Rabbi's who he could influence.....
which meant Rabbi's who loved money and influence a little too much.....

There is a possibility that there will soon be a Christian Noahide designation....
and perhaps some Christians will become Christian Noahide Nazarites and perhaps....
they might participate in some rituals in the court of the Nazarites.......
but that is considerably off in the future and the Sanhedrin will figure that out
when the time comes.

The Rabbinic Jewish community are taking steps toward us Christians
and it is time for us to begin to consider and discuss where we are off track
and not at all in line with what Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus would tell us to do if
he was with us at this time in history.

Have you heard of the group "Facing Each Other" timewerx?


Facing Each Other - Key for Peace between Judaism and Christianity | Facebook

Facing Each Other - Key for Peace between Judaism and Christianity

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Ariel Cohen Alloro & Avner Valer - Ariel Cohen Alloro Ariel in a rare
interview, offering rabbinic Judaism to reconsider the image of Jesus
in a positive light. Let's see...
Video was published on Jun 20, 2015
If you agree with the Facing-Each-Other vision, we invite you to
become part of this initiative, to pray for it and support it, to
share with all friends that love Yeshua and Israel.
Please Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/facingeachother
For more information please Like our Facebook Page:
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Visit our website: www.facingeachother.com
 
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DennisTate

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Jesus is the new Temple, and further Christians are also then the Temple of God, and subsequently after tearing that temple curtain we no longer need to go to a Temple to worship and have a relationship with God but now He lives in all of our hearts through the Holy Spirit.

So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” But he was speaking about the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken. (John 2:18-22)

“Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone, in whom the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.” Ephesians 2:19-22

“Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.” 1 Corinthians 3:17

“And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell in them And walk among them.I will be their God,And they shall be My people.” 2 Corinthians 6:16


I consider this also to be a good answer....
yes.... I agree with you that each body of a Christian or Jew is
indeed a Temple of the Holy Spirit / Ruach ha Kodesh and......
yes...... Moshiach is being raised up in each of us and soon will
be able to speak through our mouths.... to a greater and greater degree.....

and Moshiach / Messiah will also be able to do things through our hands and
feet!

Soon... the most feeble resident of Jerusalem will have a level of wisdom, courage,
chutzpah, zeal and attitude of praise and worship that will be like King David of Israel.....

But.... this does NOT mean that the literal Jerusalem Third Temple of Ezekiel chapters
40- 48 is NOT built in the near future and does not play an important role in the usher in of.....
and in the maintenance of the Era of Moshiach / Messiah for one thousand years minimum!


When Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus promised the raising up of The Temple in three days....
yes ... .that did mean his physical body....after his death ...... but it also referred to the Jerusalem Third and
Fourth Temple.......... The Fourth Temple will be the fulfillment of whatever is meant
by

Revelation Chapter 21 (KJV)

Revelation 21:2

"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

......

Revelation 21:16

"And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal."

I assume that this huge complex is shaped basically like a pyramid....
and..... I assume that there is indentation at the bottom so that it fits perfectly over the
Jerusalem Third Temple complex as described by Ezekiel in chapters 40 - 48.

What I don't know because it is information above my own Security Clearance Level and
pay scale is whether or not this Revelation 21 Temple Complex will be visible in four dimensional
space time or if it exists only in a higher invisible dimension of space - time
as postulated in String Theory?

I am wide open toward... and lean heavily toward this Fourth Jerusalem Temple being visible
in the material world....... but I could easily be wrong about this.

If this forth Jerusalem Temple comes down around the year 3030..... 3000 years / 3 metaphorical
days from the time of the death burial and resurrection of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus THEN......
the year 2030 is a logical year for the beginning of the Ezekiel 40 - 48 prophecy to be fulfilled......

The year 2070 is also a logical time for people who DO NOT recognize Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus
as having attained Moshiach ben Yosef / Joseph / Ephraim level consciousness....... so
in order for a 2030 Jerusalem Third Temple to become popular among Orthodox Jewish scholars.....
Mr. Ariel Cohen Alloro and Rabbi Itzhak Shapiro have a lot of work to do!



Ariel Cohen Alloro meeting with Rabbi Itzhak Shapira in Jerusalem - Part 1 of 3
 
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DennisTate

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One of the crucial questions that tends to separate Christians and Jews is
whether or not Jews can be saved and go to heaven / paradise if they do not
recognize the role played by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus?

Former Atheist and near death experiencer Howard Storm was given an
impressive answer to this during his out of the body experience and brush
with death.

Former atheist Howard Storm asks about holocaust during his NDE?!
Poll: Former atheist Howard Storm asks about holocaust during his NDE?!


I personally am wide open to the possibility that what former atheist Howard Storm was shown regarding the background events surrounding the holocaust fit perfectly with II Corinthians 12:2-4:

"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; )
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

Howard Storm:
"I asked how God could let the Holocaust of World War II happen. We were transported to a railway station as a long train of freight cars was being unloaded of its human cargo. The guards were screaming and beating the people into submission. The people were Jewish men, women, and children. Exhausted from hunger and thirst, they were totally disoriented from the ordeal of being rounded up and sent on a long journey to an unknown destination. They believed that they were going to work camps, and that their submission to the brutality of the guards was the only way to survive.

We went to the area where the selection process was taking place and heard the guards talking about "the Angel Maker." We went to the place the guards were referring to as "the Angel Maker," which was a series of ovens. I saw piles of naked corpses being loaded into the ovens, and I began to cry. ...."These are the people God loves." Then he said, "Look up." Rising out of the smoke of the chimneys, I saw hundreds of people being met by thousands of angels taking them up into the sky. There was great joy in the faces of the people, and there appeared to be no trace of a memory of the horrendous suffering they had just endured. How ironic that the guards sarcastically called the ovens "the Angel Maker."
...
I asked how God could allow this to happen. They told me that this was not God's will. This was an abomination to God. God wants this never to happen again. This was the sacrifice of an innocent people to whom God had given the law to be an example, a light, to the rest of the world. This Holocaust was breaking God's heart...."

I asked, Why does God let things like this happen? They told me that God was very unhappy with the course of human history and was going to intervene to change the world. God had watched us sink to depths of depravity and cruelty at the very time that he was giving us the instruments to make the world a godlier world. God had intervened in the world many times before, but this time God was going to change the course of human events.// (Howard Storm, My Descent Into Death, page 42,43)

The results of the poll that I posted with this indicate how divided we Christians and
Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles are on this subject.


Do You Believe That Some NDE Accounts Fit With Scripture?
  1. *
    Yes, I believe that some NDE accounts are genuine meetings with the Messiah or angels.
    10 vote(s)
    31.3%

  2. Maybe but perhaps some NDE accounts are of a meeting with Satan?!
    7 vote(s)
    21.9%

  3. No, the near death experience accounts are mostly false and misleading.
    10 vote(s)
    31.3%

  4. I don't know enough about this subject yet to express an opinion?!
    6 vote(s)
    18.8%
 
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DennisTate

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You all may find the results of a somewhat similar poll
that I began back on April 8, 2012 to be interesting.

Should Christians support Jews in rebuilding of Third Temple?


Should Christians Support Jewish Control Of Temple Mount And Rebuilding Of Temple?
  1. *
    Yes, I believe that every word in Ezekiel chapter 40 to 48 must be fulfilled.
    19 vote(s)
    20.0%

  2. No, doing this might speed up the time of the coming of the anti-Messiah!
    6 vote(s)
    6.3%

  3. Yes, King Cyrus was led by the God of Abraham and he supported this cause.
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  4. No, I believe that we should all be vegetarians and never kill animals.
    6 vote(s)
    6.3%

  5. Yes, our nation will be blessed if we bless the Jewish people.
    10 vote(s)
    10.5%

  6. No, this could lead to a war and human life is of more value than any temple!
    54 vote(s)
    56.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
 
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Sultan Of Swing

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One of the crucial questions that tends to separate Christians and Jews is
whether or not Jews can be saved and go to heaven / paradise if they do not
recognize the role played by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus?

Former Atheist and near death experiencer Howard Storm was given an
impressive answer to this during his out of the body experience and brush
with death.

Former atheist Howard Storm asks about holocaust during his NDE?!
Poll: Former atheist Howard Storm asks about holocaust during his NDE?!


I personally am wide open to the possibility that what former atheist Howard Storm was shown regarding the background events surrounding the holocaust fit perfectly with II Corinthians 12:2-4:

"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; )
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

Howard Storm:


The results of the poll that I posted with this indicate how divided we Christians and
Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles are on this subject.


Do You Believe That Some NDE Accounts Fit With Scripture?
  1. *
    Yes, I believe that some NDE accounts are genuine meetings with the Messiah or angels.
    10 vote(s)
    31.3%

  2. Maybe but perhaps some NDE accounts are of a meeting with Satan?!
    7 vote(s)
    21.9%

  3. No, the near death experience accounts are mostly false and misleading.
    10 vote(s)
    31.3%

  4. I don't know enough about this subject yet to express an opinion?!
    6 vote(s)
    18.8%
No, Jews cannot be saved without knowing Jesus. This is very clear in Scripture. A NDE doesn't change anything. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, none comes to the Father except through Him. Also from Romans 1 we know that no one has an excuse. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, including Jews.
 
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DennisTate

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No, Jews cannot be saved without knowing Jesus. This is very clear in Scripture. A NDE doesn't change anything. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, none comes to the Father except through Him. Also from Romans 1 we know that no one has an excuse. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, including Jews.

So is Messiah Yeshua - Jesus the one who judges us after we die?

Is Messiah Yeshua - Jesus free to lead an Atheist like Howard Storm to repentance.....
during his near death experience and life review?

Or is the Messiah forced to condemn somebody based entirely on what they do and say
previous to the moment of their death?

If Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is the being of light of NDE fame......
could it be that he is keeping his promise, in the future, to speak and teach
plainly of the Father?
 
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Sultan Of Swing

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So is Messiah Yeshua - Jesus the one who judges us after we die?

Is Messiah Yeshua - Jesus free to lead an Atheist like Howard Storm to repentance.....
during his near death experience and life review?

Or is the Messiah forced to condemn somebody based entirely on what they do and say
previous to the moment of their death?

If Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is the being of light of NDE fame......
could it be that he is keeping his promise, in the future, to speak and teach
plainly of the Father?
Why would Paul have such great urgency in his letter to the Romans, that how will those who do not hear the Gospel believe, and thus be saved, if they could simply be saved after their death? To think they will be saved is wishful thinking and does not fit with the urgency of Paul in proclaiming the Gospel, that those who do not hear it will be lost.
 
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Soyeong

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One of the best arguments that I have ran into as to why
Christians should support the Orthodox Jewish community
in their desire to rebuild their Jerusalem Third Temple is
a statement by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus:

Luke 24:25

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:"

So... all that the prophets have spoken would include Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48 that
clearly describe the restored Jerusalem Third Temple as part of the Era of Messiah / Moshiach.... .the millennial rule of Messiah over all the earth.

Also:
Luke 13:35

"Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

Was Ezekiel blessed?

Did Ezekiel come in the name of the Lord?

Is Christianity relatively desolate due to our having forgotten the words of the Prophets?

One thing that I know for sure is that God does not need our help to bring about prophecy. I think there are instances in the Bible where people got into trouble because they thought God needed a little help, such as with Abraham and Ishmael. However, this isn't to say that we can't be used as instruments by God to bring about His prophecies, so we should be receptive to His will, but I think if our goal is the move up God's time table, then we are taking the wrong approach because that will happen at its appointed time with or without our help. Our goal should be to do precisely what God has given us to do, no more and no less.
 
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DennisTate

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Why would Paul have such great urgency in his letter to the Romans, that how will those who do not hear the Gospel believe, and thus be saved, if they could simply be saved after their death? To think they will be saved is wishful thinking and does not fit with the urgency of Paul in proclaiming the Gospel, that those who do not hear it will be lost.

This is an exceptionally good question and I've personally been
struggling with variations on this since I was a teenager back in the
'70's.

On one level....... if II Corinthians 12:2-4 indicate that Paul himself
was the man who above fourteen years ago..... had had either an out of the
body experience, or near death experience, (or something similar perhaps
an open vision), then......
this may help to explain what later on inspired Paul to write in Romans 11.

At the time of II Corinthians 12..... Paul just could not put into writing what
he may have been shown...... .but years later in Rome...... he felt it was time
for him to reveal the following. Perhaps it is truths like the following that
at the time of II Corinthians Paul felt would be UNLAWFUL for him to explain?!


Romans Chapter 11 (KJV)

Romans 11:11


I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

....
Rom 11:26

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

.....

Rom 11:32

"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."


On one level we need to have a high level of zeal to help people but......
former Atheist Howard Storm stated that the being of light who met him during
his near death experience seemed to be viewing him, Howard, as he was going to become,
and NOT as he was at that moment?

So on one level....... we need to have a confidence that HaShem will eventually work out
a great plan for all the people we know..... or we will not be able to accept them as is,
where they are at now........
which we need to have.

On the other hand we also need to know how our efforts on behalf of people, especially through
prayer for them, is extremely important in how they come to greater levels of understanding.
 
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DennisTate

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No, Jews cannot be saved without knowing Jesus. This is very clear in Scripture. A NDE doesn't change anything. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, none comes to the Father except through Him. Also from Romans 1 we know that no one has an excuse. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, including Jews.

Have you read the near death experience of Ms. Beverly Brodsky?

At the time of her NDE she was an Atheist and was so angry over the
injustices of history, especially The Holocaust, that she kind of blasted the
being of light for allowing that to happen.

She felt that the being of light was a former human.... and she felt he was The Messiah / Moshiach,
but the being of light DID NOT tell her his name from his human life?!


(near-death .com/religion/judaism/beverly-brodsky.html)

......Such love and gentleness emanated from his being that I felt that I was in the presence of the Messiah.



Whoever he was, his presence deepened my serenity and awakened a feeling of joy as I recognized my companion. Gently he took my hand and we flew right through the window. I felt no surprise at my ability to do this. In this wondrous presence, everything was as it should be.
.....


"I immediately lashed out at him with all the questions I had ever wondered about; all the injustices I had seen in the physical world. I don't know if I did this deliberately, but I discovered that God knows all your thoughts immediately and responds telepathically. My mind was naked; in fact, I became pure mind. The ethereal body which I had traveled in through the tunnel seemed to be no more; it was just my personal intelligence confronting that Universal Mind, which clothed itself in a glorious, living light that was more felt that seen, since no eye could absorb its splendor.



I don't recall the exact content of our discussion; in the process of return, the insights that came so clearly and fully in Heaven were not brought back with me to Earth. I'm sure that I asked the question that had been plaguing me since childhood about the sufferings of my people. I do remember this: There was a reason for everything that happened, no matter how awful it appeared in the physical realm. And within myself, as I was given the answer, my own awakening mind now responded in the same manner:



"Of course," I would think, "I already know that. How could I ever have forgotten!"



Indeed, it appears that all that happens is for a purpose, and that purpose is already known to our eternal self.



In time the questions ceased, because I suddenly was filled with all the Being's wisdom. I was given more than just the answers to my questions; all knowledge unfolded to me, like the instant blossoming of an infinite number of flowers all at once. I was filled with God's knowledge, and in that precious aspect of his Beingness, I was one with him. But my journey of discovery was just beginning.



Now I was treated to an extraordinary voyage through the universe. Instantly we traveled to the center of stars being born, supernovas exploding, and many other glorious celestial events for which I have no name. The impression I have now of this trip is that it felt like the universe is all one grand object woven from the same fabric. Space and time are illusions that hold us to our physical realm; out there all is present simultaneously. I was a passenger on a divine spaceship in which the Creator showed me the fullness and beauty of all of his Creation.



The last thing that I saw before all external vision ended was a glorious fire - the core and center of a marvelous star. Perhaps this was a symbol for the blessing that was now to come to me. Everything faded except for a richly full void in which That and I encompassed All that is. Here, I experienced, in ineffable magnificence, communion with the light being. Now I was filled with not just all knowledge, but also with all love. It was as if the light were poured in and through me. I was God's object of adoration; and from his/our love I drew life and joy beyond imagining. My being was transformed; my delusions, sins, and guilt were forgiven and purged without asking; and now I was love, primal being, and bliss. And, in some sense, I remain there, for Eternity. Such a union cannot be broken. It always was, is, and shall be." (Ms. Beverly Brodsky, near-death .com)
 
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DennisTate

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One thing that I know for sure is that God does not need our help to bring about prophecy. I think there are instances in the Bible where people got into trouble because they thought God needed a little help, such as with Abraham and Ishmael. However, this isn't to say that we can't be used as instruments by God to bring about His prophecies, so we should be receptive to His will, but I think if our goal is the move up God's time table, then we are taking the wrong approach because that will happen at its appointed time with or without our help. Our goal should be to do precisely what God has given us to do, no more and no less.

I was taught this basic idea for many years
but lately I've ran into evidence that makes all of this look
quite different.

If.... my online Theoretical Physicist friend is basically correct in
the variation of Multiverse Theory that he is proposing then.....
there could well be time lines in which The Jerusalem Third Temple is
built and operational by the year 2030..... and other time lines in which
the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple may be delayed until 2070?!

Each of these time lines will result in all of learning somewhat different lessons at
somewhat different times.

That is a challenging theory to imagine as true.... so I don't blame you for your
skepticism but at least one near death experiencer reports meeting an older version
of himself after his tenth heart attack.

Can you imagine a G-d so great... that this astonishing Being makes duplicates of YOU....
in other time lines...... and leads each of these duplicates to the place where they also make it
into heaven / paradise and live forever....... .because frankly... although they could be YOU... they
also could have significantly different character traits in certain areas.

This could also perhaps be one of those idea that Paul, at the time of II Corinthians 12.. .felt that he could
not lawfully explain to his audience.

In a nutshell..... is Ezekiel 37 an event that can happen again and again and again as G-d creates and spins off
new time lines?




The Philosophical implications of Multiverse Theory?

The Philosophical implications of Multiverse Theory?
 
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Soyeong

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I was taught this basic idea for many years
but lately I've ran into evidence that makes all of this look
quite different.

If.... my online Theoretical Physicist friend is basically correct in
the variation of Multiverse Theory that he is proposing then.....
there could well be time lines in which The Jerusalem Third Temple is
built and operational by the year 2030..... and other time lines in which
the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple may be delayed until 2070?!

Each of these time lines will result in all of learning somewhat different lessons at
somewhat different times.

That is a challenging theory to imagine as true.... so I don't blame you for your
skepticism but at least one near death experiencer reports meeting an older version
of himself after his tenth heart attack.

Can you imagine a G-d so great... that this astonishing Being makes duplicates of YOU....
in other time lines...... and leads each of these duplicates to the place where they also make it
into heaven / paradise and live forever....... .because frankly... although they could be YOU... they
also could have significantly different character traits in certain areas.

This could also perhaps be one of those idea that Paul, at the time of II Corinthians 12.. .felt that he could
not lawfully explain to his audience.



The Philosophical implications of Multiverse Theory?

The Philosophical implications of Multiverse Theory?

There is no direct evidence for other universes or for there being infinite variation within these universes, so this speculations about the implication of speculations. It is possible that there is a multiverse such as you suggest? Sure, but I don't see any value in talking about the implications of it. Within these multiverses, anything and everything will happen tomorrow, so would it be fruitful to speculate on the implications of some of the more bizarre things that will happen tomorrow in one of these multiverses?

In a nutshell..... is Ezekiel 37 an event that can happen again and again and again as G-d creates and spins off
new time lines?

Ecclesiastes 1:9 What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.

I think it is certainly a good idea to keep this verse in mind throughout a study of Revelation, so things do happen again and again, but there is no need to bring multiverses into this.
 
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Sultan Of Swing

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This is an exceptionally good question and I've personally been
struggling with variations on this since I was a teenager back in the
'70's.

On one level....... if II Corinthians 12:2-4 indicate that Paul himself
was the man who above fourteen years ago..... had had either an out of the
body experience, or near death experience, (or something similar perhaps
an open vision), then......
this may help to explain what later on inspired Paul to write in Romans 11.

At the time of II Corinthians 12..... Paul just could not put into writing what
he may have been shown...... .but years later in Rome...... he felt it was time
for him to reveal the following. Perhaps it is truths like the following that
at the time of II Corinthians Paul felt would be UNLAWFUL for him to explain?!


Romans Chapter 11 (KJV)

Romans 11:11




....
Rom 11:26

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

.....

Rom 11:32

"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."


On one level we need to have a high level of zeal to help people but......
former Atheist Howard Storm stated that the being of light who met him during
his near death experience seemed to be viewing him, Howard, as he was going to become,
and NOT as he was at that moment?

So on one level....... we need to have a confidence that HaShem will eventually work out
a great plan for all the people we know..... or we will not be able to accept them as is,
where they are at now........
which we need to have.

On the other hand we also need to know how our efforts on behalf of people, especially through
prayer for them, is extremely important in how they come to greater levels of understanding.
Indeed I think the text in Romans 11 also is indicating that God may have a final salvation plan for the Jews, but it will always be and only be through belief in Jesus Christ. There is not some other path.

Helping the Jews rebuild a temple won't help them come to Christ. What will help them is if we honestly and faithfully preach to them the Gospel and call upon them to repent and believe in Jesus Christ as the promised Messiah who has saved them from their sins by dying on the cross and rising from the dead. And more powerful than our arguments and actions is the very word of God, and we should encourage our Jewish friends to read the Gospels for themselves.
 
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Sultan Of Swing

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Have you read the near death experience of Ms. Beverly Brodsky?

At the time of her NDE she was an Atheist and was so angry over the
injustices of history, especially The Holocaust, that she kind of blasted the
being of light for allowing that to happen.

She felt that the being of light was a former human.... and she felt he was The Messiah / Moshiach,
but the being of light DID NOT tell her his name from his human life?!


(near-death .com/religion/judaism/beverly-brodsky.html)

.....
Why do you believe her NDE account, or anyone's account? There are Hindus who also have NDEs, meeting their Hindu gods. Are they genuine, or just the work of demons, or mental illness? We often pick and choose which NDEs we like or dislike.
 
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BABerean2

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Indeed I think the text in Romans 11 also is indicating that God may have a final salvation plan for the Jews, but it will always be and only be through belief in Jesus Christ. There is not some other path.

Helping the Jews rebuild a temple won't help them come to Christ. What will help them is if we honestly and faithfully preach to them the Gospel and call upon them to repent and believe in Jesus Christ as the promised Messiah who has saved them from their sins by dying on the cross and rising from the dead. And more powerful than our arguments and actions is the very word of God, and we should encourage our Jewish friends to read the Gospels for themselves.

The first thing we should share with modern Jews is the promise of a New Covenant found in Jeremiah chapter 31, which was to replace the Sinai covenant they had broken. Then we have the timeline in Daniel chapter 9 which reveals that the New Covenant Messiah would come before the second temple was destroyed.

There is a clear link between the seed of the woman in Genesis 3:15 and the messenger of the covenant in Malachi chapter 3.

Christ clearly fulfilled this New Covenant in His Blood, as found in Hebrews 8:6-13, Hebrews 12:18-24, and is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.


The most important genealogy in the Bible is found in Matthew chapter 1. Shortly after, John the Baptist tells the Jews not to put their faith in being the seed of Abraham.

Mat 3:9  and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.

Race is not a factor in the New Covenant.



 
 
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Righttruth

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No true believer is Christ will support, directly or indirectly, the building of a third temple that mocks at the supreme sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The OT has been fulfilled, and speculations on old prophesies are not our business.
 
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