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Featured Should Christians support Rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple.

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by DennisTate, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. Yes... the words of Ezekiel must come to pass.

    9 vote(s)
    14.3%
  2. No.... it will lead to the rise of the Anti-Christ fellow.

    8 vote(s)
    12.7%
  3. Yes.... living waters will flow from the restored Third Temple.

    2 vote(s)
    3.2%
  4. No... Christians must not support animal sacrifice.

    31 vote(s)
    49.2%
  5. I am not certain but I will research this question further.

    8 vote(s)
    12.7%
  6. No... this could cause a war to break out.

    5 vote(s)
    7.9%
  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    One of the best arguments that I have ran into as to why
    Christians should support the Orthodox Jewish community
    in their desire to rebuild their Jerusalem Third Temple is
    a statement by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus:

    Luke 24:25

    "Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:"

    So... all that the prophets have spoken would include Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48 that
    clearly describe the restored Jerusalem Third Temple as part of the Era of Messiah / Moshiach.... .the millennial rule of Messiah over all the earth.

    Also:
    Luke 13:35

    "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

    Was Ezekiel blessed?

    Did Ezekiel come in the name of the Lord?

    Is Christianity relatively desolate due to our having forgotten the words of the Prophets?
     
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  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    I am of the belief that astonishing miracles will accompany the
    rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple.

    I believe that the prophecy about living waters flowing from the Temple in
    two directions.... will be fulfilled both literally as well as metaphorically.

    Literal living waters will restore land and two seas and metaphorically an
    outpouring of the Holy Spirit on all flesh will occur that will amaze all
    of humanity.


    BIN EXCLUSIVE: Sanhedrin Asks Putin and Trump to Build Third Temple in Jerusalem
    Read more at BIN EXCLUSIVE: Sanhedrin Asks Putin and Trump to Build Third Temple in Jerusalem
     
  3. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

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    My answer would be a Maybe, leaning towards a No.

    Maybe yes, we can help them rebuild the temple, but to partake in the rituals, that would be a huge NO.

    The Jewish Orthodoxy (Judaism) is the modern day Pharisee sect.... Jesus warned us against them, read your Bibles.... Jesus went as far to tell their father is the devil.

    The only thing that maybe of significance is the building....Imagine if we rebuild the temple and have the Jews defile the temple again.... Imagine what would Jesus do if He came and caught them in their act...

    He won't be coming with a whip of cords this time and just overturning tables...but with all the glory and power of the Universe.
     
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  4. Sultan Of Swing

    Sultan Of Swing Junior Member

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    Jesus is the new Temple, and further Christians are also then the Temple of God, and subsequently after tearing that temple curtain we no longer need to go to a Temple to worship and have a relationship with God but now He lives in all of our hearts through the Holy Spirit.

    So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” But he was speaking about the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken. (John 2:18-22)

    “Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone, in whom the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.” Ephesians 2:19-22

    “Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.” 1 Corinthians 3:17

    “And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell in them And walk among them.I will be their God,And they shall be My people.” 2 Corinthians 6:16
     
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  5. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    This is an exceptionally good answer Timewerx!

    I agree with you that we Christians have zero ownership over the Temple Mount area.....
    and we have no idea or background as to the specific rituals that the restored
    Levites and Rabbi's will be doing on the Temple Mount.

    Actually, there is a huge difference between the Sanhedrin of the time of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus
    with the Sanhedrin of our time because........
    King Herod the Great chose many of the Rabbi's serving on the Sanhedrin of
    his time period.......
    and King Herod....DID NOT choose Rabbi's for their wisdom, sincerity
    and zeal for the words of Moses and The Prophets!

    King Herod chose Rabbi's who he could influence.....
    which meant Rabbi's who loved money and influence a little too much.....

    There is a possibility that there will soon be a Christian Noahide designation....
    and perhaps some Christians will become Christian Noahide Nazarites and perhaps....
    they might participate in some rituals in the court of the Nazarites.......
    but that is considerably off in the future and the Sanhedrin will figure that out
    when the time comes.

    The Rabbinic Jewish community are taking steps toward us Christians
    and it is time for us to begin to consider and discuss where we are off track
    and not at all in line with what Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus would tell us to do if
    he was with us at this time in history.

    Have you heard of the group "Facing Each Other" timewerx?


    Facing Each Other - Key for Peace between Judaism and Christianity | Facebook

    Facing Each Other - Key for Peace between Judaism and Christianity

     
  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    I consider this also to be a good answer....
    yes.... I agree with you that each body of a Christian or Jew is
    indeed a Temple of the Holy Spirit / Ruach ha Kodesh and......
    yes...... Moshiach is being raised up in each of us and soon will
    be able to speak through our mouths.... to a greater and greater degree.....

    and Moshiach / Messiah will also be able to do things through our hands and
    feet!

    Soon... the most feeble resident of Jerusalem will have a level of wisdom, courage,
    chutzpah, zeal and attitude of praise and worship that will be like King David of Israel.....

    But.... this does NOT mean that the literal Jerusalem Third Temple of Ezekiel chapters
    40- 48 is NOT built in the near future and does not play an important role in the usher in of.....
    and in the maintenance of the Era of Moshiach / Messiah for one thousand years minimum!


    When Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus promised the raising up of The Temple in three days....
    yes ... .that did mean his physical body....after his death ...... but it also referred to the Jerusalem Third and
    Fourth Temple.......... The Fourth Temple will be the fulfillment of whatever is meant
    by

    Revelation Chapter 21 (KJV)

    Revelation 21:2

    "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

    ......

    Revelation 21:16

    "And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal."

    I assume that this huge complex is shaped basically like a pyramid....
    and..... I assume that there is indentation at the bottom so that it fits perfectly over the
    Jerusalem Third Temple complex as described by Ezekiel in chapters 40 - 48.

    What I don't know because it is information above my own Security Clearance Level and
    pay scale is whether or not this Revelation 21 Temple Complex will be visible in four dimensional
    space time or if it exists only in a higher invisible dimension of space - time
    as postulated in String Theory?

    I am wide open toward... and lean heavily toward this Fourth Jerusalem Temple being visible
    in the material world....... but I could easily be wrong about this.

    If this forth Jerusalem Temple comes down around the year 3030..... 3000 years / 3 metaphorical
    days from the time of the death burial and resurrection of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus THEN......
    the year 2030 is a logical year for the beginning of the Ezekiel 40 - 48 prophecy to be fulfilled......

    The year 2070 is also a logical time for people who DO NOT recognize Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus
    as having attained Moshiach ben Yosef / Joseph / Ephraim level consciousness....... so
    in order for a 2030 Jerusalem Third Temple to become popular among Orthodox Jewish scholars.....
    Mr. Ariel Cohen Alloro and Rabbi Itzhak Shapiro have a lot of work to do!




    Ariel Cohen Alloro meeting with Rabbi Itzhak Shapira in Jerusalem - Part 1 of 3
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    One of the crucial questions that tends to separate Christians and Jews is
    whether or not Jews can be saved and go to heaven / paradise if they do not
    recognize the role played by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus?

    Former Atheist and near death experiencer Howard Storm was given an
    impressive answer to this during his out of the body experience and brush
    with death.

    Former atheist Howard Storm asks about holocaust during his NDE?!
    Poll: Former atheist Howard Storm asks about holocaust during his NDE?!


    I personally am wide open to the possibility that what former atheist Howard Storm was shown regarding the background events surrounding the holocaust fit perfectly with II Corinthians 12:2-4:

    "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
    And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; )
    How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

    Howard Storm:
    The results of the poll that I posted with this indicate how divided we Christians and
    Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles are on this subject.


    Do You Believe That Some NDE Accounts Fit With Scripture?
    1. *
      Yes, I believe that some NDE accounts are genuine meetings with the Messiah or angels.
      10 vote(s)
      31.3%

    2. Maybe but perhaps some NDE accounts are of a meeting with Satan?!
      7 vote(s)
      21.9%

    3. No, the near death experience accounts are mostly false and misleading.
      10 vote(s)
      31.3%

    4. I don't know enough about this subject yet to express an opinion?!
      6 vote(s)
      18.8%
     
  8. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    You all may find the results of a somewhat similar poll
    that I began back on April 8, 2012 to be interesting.

    Should Christians support Jews in rebuilding of Third Temple?


    Should Christians Support Jewish Control Of Temple Mount And Rebuilding Of Temple?
    1. *
      Yes, I believe that every word in Ezekiel chapter 40 to 48 must be fulfilled.
      19 vote(s)
      20.0%

    2. No, doing this might speed up the time of the coming of the anti-Messiah!
      6 vote(s)
      6.3%

    3. Yes, King Cyrus was led by the God of Abraham and he supported this cause.
      0 vote(s)
      0.0%

    4. No, I believe that we should all be vegetarians and never kill animals.
      6 vote(s)
      6.3%

    5. Yes, our nation will be blessed if we bless the Jewish people.
      10 vote(s)
      10.5%

    6. No, this could lead to a war and human life is of more value than any temple!
      54 vote(s)
      56.8%
    Multiple votes are allowed.
     
  9. Sultan Of Swing

    Sultan Of Swing Junior Member

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    No, Jews cannot be saved without knowing Jesus. This is very clear in Scripture. A NDE doesn't change anything. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, none comes to the Father except through Him. Also from Romans 1 we know that no one has an excuse. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, including Jews.
     
  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    So is Messiah Yeshua - Jesus the one who judges us after we die?

    Is Messiah Yeshua - Jesus free to lead an Atheist like Howard Storm to repentance.....
    during his near death experience and life review?

    Or is the Messiah forced to condemn somebody based entirely on what they do and say
    previous to the moment of their death?

    If Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is the being of light of NDE fame......
    could it be that he is keeping his promise, in the future, to speak and teach
    plainly of the Father?
     
  11. Sultan Of Swing

    Sultan Of Swing Junior Member

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    Why would Paul have such great urgency in his letter to the Romans, that how will those who do not hear the Gospel believe, and thus be saved, if they could simply be saved after their death? To think they will be saved is wishful thinking and does not fit with the urgency of Paul in proclaiming the Gospel, that those who do not hear it will be lost.
     
  12. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    One thing that I know for sure is that God does not need our help to bring about prophecy. I think there are instances in the Bible where people got into trouble because they thought God needed a little help, such as with Abraham and Ishmael. However, this isn't to say that we can't be used as instruments by God to bring about His prophecies, so we should be receptive to His will, but I think if our goal is the move up God's time table, then we are taking the wrong approach because that will happen at its appointed time with or without our help. Our goal should be to do precisely what God has given us to do, no more and no less.
     
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    This is an exceptionally good question and I've personally been
    struggling with variations on this since I was a teenager back in the
    '70's.

    On one level....... if II Corinthians 12:2-4 indicate that Paul himself
    was the man who above fourteen years ago..... had had either an out of the
    body experience, or near death experience, (or something similar perhaps
    an open vision), then......
    this may help to explain what later on inspired Paul to write in Romans 11.

    At the time of II Corinthians 12..... Paul just could not put into writing what
    he may have been shown...... .but years later in Rome...... he felt it was time
    for him to reveal the following. Perhaps it is truths like the following that
    at the time of II Corinthians Paul felt would be UNLAWFUL for him to explain?!


    Romans Chapter 11 (KJV)

    Romans 11:11


    ....
    Rom 11:26

    "And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

    For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

    .....

    Rom 11:32

    "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."


    On one level we need to have a high level of zeal to help people but......
    former Atheist Howard Storm stated that the being of light who met him during
    his near death experience seemed to be viewing him, Howard, as he was going to become,
    and NOT as he was at that moment?

    So on one level....... we need to have a confidence that HaShem will eventually work out
    a great plan for all the people we know..... or we will not be able to accept them as is,
    where they are at now........
    which we need to have.

    On the other hand we also need to know how our efforts on behalf of people, especially through
    prayer for them, is extremely important in how they come to greater levels of understanding.
     
  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Have you read the near death experience of Ms. Beverly Brodsky?

    At the time of her NDE she was an Atheist and was so angry over the
    injustices of history, especially The Holocaust, that she kind of blasted the
    being of light for allowing that to happen.

    She felt that the being of light was a former human.... and she felt he was The Messiah / Moshiach,
    but the being of light DID NOT tell her his name from his human life?!


    (near-death .com/religion/judaism/beverly-brodsky.html)

    .....


     
  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    I was taught this basic idea for many years
    but lately I've ran into evidence that makes all of this look
    quite different.

    If.... my online Theoretical Physicist friend is basically correct in
    the variation of Multiverse Theory that he is proposing then.....
    there could well be time lines in which The Jerusalem Third Temple is
    built and operational by the year 2030..... and other time lines in which
    the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple may be delayed until 2070?!

    Each of these time lines will result in all of learning somewhat different lessons at
    somewhat different times.

    That is a challenging theory to imagine as true.... so I don't blame you for your
    skepticism but at least one near death experiencer reports meeting an older version
    of himself after his tenth heart attack.

    Can you imagine a G-d so great... that this astonishing Being makes duplicates of YOU....
    in other time lines...... and leads each of these duplicates to the place where they also make it
    into heaven / paradise and live forever....... .because frankly... although they could be YOU... they
    also could have significantly different character traits in certain areas.

    This could also perhaps be one of those idea that Paul, at the time of II Corinthians 12.. .felt that he could
    not lawfully explain to his audience.

    In a nutshell..... is Ezekiel 37 an event that can happen again and again and again as G-d creates and spins off
    new time lines?




    The Philosophical implications of Multiverse Theory?

    The Philosophical implications of Multiverse Theory?
     
  16. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    There is no direct evidence for other universes or for there being infinite variation within these universes, so this speculations about the implication of speculations. It is possible that there is a multiverse such as you suggest? Sure, but I don't see any value in talking about the implications of it. Within these multiverses, anything and everything will happen tomorrow, so would it be fruitful to speculate on the implications of some of the more bizarre things that will happen tomorrow in one of these multiverses?

    Ecclesiastes 1:9 What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.

    I think it is certainly a good idea to keep this verse in mind throughout a study of Revelation, so things do happen again and again, but there is no need to bring multiverses into this.
     
  17. Sultan Of Swing

    Sultan Of Swing Junior Member

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    Indeed I think the text in Romans 11 also is indicating that God may have a final salvation plan for the Jews, but it will always be and only be through belief in Jesus Christ. There is not some other path.

    Helping the Jews rebuild a temple won't help them come to Christ. What will help them is if we honestly and faithfully preach to them the Gospel and call upon them to repent and believe in Jesus Christ as the promised Messiah who has saved them from their sins by dying on the cross and rising from the dead. And more powerful than our arguments and actions is the very word of God, and we should encourage our Jewish friends to read the Gospels for themselves.
     
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  18. Sultan Of Swing

    Sultan Of Swing Junior Member

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    Why do you believe her NDE account, or anyone's account? There are Hindus who also have NDEs, meeting their Hindu gods. Are they genuine, or just the work of demons, or mental illness? We often pick and choose which NDEs we like or dislike.
     
  19. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The first thing we should share with modern Jews is the promise of a New Covenant found in Jeremiah chapter 31, which was to replace the Sinai covenant they had broken. Then we have the timeline in Daniel chapter 9 which reveals that the New Covenant Messiah would come before the second temple was destroyed.

    There is a clear link between the seed of the woman in Genesis 3:15 and the messenger of the covenant in Malachi chapter 3.

    Christ clearly fulfilled this New Covenant in His Blood, as found in Hebrews 8:6-13, Hebrews 12:18-24, and is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.



    The most important genealogy in the Bible is found in Matthew chapter 1. Shortly after, John the Baptist tells the Jews not to put their faith in being the seed of Abraham.

    Mat 3:9  and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.

    Race is not a factor in the New Covenant.



     
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  20. Righttruth

    Righttruth Regular Member Supporter

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    No true believer is Christ will support, directly or indirectly, the building of a third temple that mocks at the supreme sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The OT has been fulfilled, and speculations on old prophesies are not our business.
     
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