Should atheists believe in the God of christianity if...

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the iconoclast

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Personally, I don't know that. But I do consider it extremely likely.
And I base that on the fact that, in essence, it consists of the exact same type of claims as all other unfalsifiable deities ever invented by mankind.

Thousands of gods have been claimed by humans. Logically, not all of them can exist. At best, only one religion is correct. So right out the gates, 99% of all supernatural claims are false / invented by definition.

And since they all make the same kind of claims and are supported with the same kind of non-evidence, the most likely answer is that none of them exist and all of them are invented.

Hey hey he hunts dogma :)

Want another shot at redemption i see. I got too many conversations going on but am delighted to see you again.

When i get a chance we will begin another discussion. Lets see what else you got my dear. :)

I will reply as soon as possible

Cheers
 
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the iconoclast

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You can't think of anything that would convince you? I'm sure there are plenty of Atheist who would answer your question the same way.

Hey hey my dear :)

Dont be shy. Lets converse, what have you got?

Edit - the blanks are filled out in my reply to mr dogmahunter, he wants to join in.

What would convince you that the voices in your head are not the voices of God, but from something convincing you it was the voice of God?

What makes you assume i have voices in my head?

Give me something convince me? What have you got?

Cheers my dear
 
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the iconoclast

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Hey hey @jayem and @belk. Im going to have to delay our discussion. Dogmahunter and ken have peaked my curiosity, dont worry there will be plenty of time to have a conversation.

God bless you and your family
 
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DogmaHunter

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That is a fantastic lie perpetuated since the garden. The world has always been under continual deception of the things of the Most High God because we have let charlatans infiltrate every possible system.

Christianity is a relationship; the world has been had. People follow the Most High God not because He gives them stuff, but because He is a Father to them.


...and because they believe that not following him, will lead them to an afterlife of eternal punishment.
 
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the iconoclast

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Hey hey you. :)

I assume you forget our previous conversations. Dont worry i have not :) i have them documented! :)

Personally, I don't know that. But I do consider it extremely likely.

If you dont know then why/how is it extremely likely?

And I base that on the fact that, in essence, it consists of the exact same type of claims as all other unfalsifiable deities ever invented by mankind.

How is it a fact?

Thousands of gods have been claimed by humans. Logically, not all of them can exist. At best, only one religion is correct. So right out the gates, 99% of all supernatural claims are false / invented by definition.

Why cannot Christianity be the correct one?

And since they all make the same kind of claims and are supported with the same kind of non-evidence, the most likely answer is that none of them exist and all of them are invented.

How does islam make the same kind of claims that Hinduism makes?

He just told you. In the very post you are quoting...................

@Allandavid made a statement and could not explain it to me. He wants me to accept without question. That is why he is keeping company with 2 other people who failed as well.

You are lucky you are not up there as well considering our 2 previous discussions but lets see where we go, you never know. :)

I got the whole defeated thing from kylie. Whats good for that gander is good for this goose. ;)

Something independently verifiable that points exclusively to the specific God you talk about, would be a good start.

Such as. What form would satisfy your criteria?

This is where alandavid got stuck!

That's what he is asking you.................................

Well ill flip some cards over for you and show you where i was going.

I have a relationship with God through the Holy Spirit. I know there is a God! The Holy Spirit strengthens my position. Ask me something here?

Ive had an encounter with God spiritually in a way that is certain. :) i am now stubborn for God :)

God is real to me. Like my friends and family are.

So if God is real to me and his existance is known to me, how do i disprove something that as real as you?

How do i disprove your existence?

Alien abductees had such experiences too, making them believe that they were abducted by aliens and anally probed.

Do you want to debate the existance of aliens? Do you believe in aliens?
 
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the iconoclast

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It isn't. What's important to me is understanding the world for what it is, not what I might want it to be. Honesty and rationality are important.

Hey there :)

Its going to be long wait. Lets try another time

Cheers for the interest
 
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Kaon

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...and because they believe that not following him, will lead them to an afterlife of eternal punishment.

Yea, maybe that is what denominations say. That is inconsequential to the fact that Christianity is a relationship. The Word of God literally went to hell and back for all of us; if you are focusing on hell and heaven (and, not the Most High God), then you are already on the wrong track. As David said, doesn't matter if it is heaven or hell, the Most High God is there. Even in ignorance, He is inescapable. That is why a relationship based on love (obedience), trust (faith) and loyalty (righteousness) is the way to the Most High God - through the wisdom of His Son the Word of God Himself.

The "eternal" part is more of a consequence of the substance of "you." As I said, humans are painfully ignorant of the substance of what makes them "them", and in what image they were made.
 
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DogmaHunter

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If you dont know then why/how is it extremely likely?

It is explained in the very post you pulled that sentence from...

How is it a fact?

I don't know what confuses you about that.
All religions make the same type of claims: supernatural bits.

Why cannot Christianity be the correct one?

I don't think I said it can not be.
The thing is though, you can ask that question of every single religion and the answer would be the same. The point.

How does islam make the same kind of claims that Hinduism makes?

Both claim supernatural things and deities.
And both do it in unfalsifiable manner.

@Allandavid made a statement and could not explain it to me. He wants me to accept without question.

What do you want explained about the sentence "But, given the thousands of other gods that man has proposed throughout history, the evidence points in that direction. "

Do you disagree that people obviously have a habbit of inventing deities and religions?
That would be kind of bizar. Surely you don't consider every religion correct - that would require you to believe in mutually contradicting claims.

Surely you don't believe Shiva, Visjnoe and Thor exist?
That would mean that you think that the religions of those deities are incorrect, right?


That is why he is keeping company with 2 other people who failed as well.

You are lucky you are not up there as well considering our 2 previous discussions but lets see where we go, you never know. :)

Arrogance, is not a very flattering property.

Such as. What form would satisfy your criteria?

Something independently verifiable that points exclusively to your god.
I just told you.

What have you got?
You're the theist. You're the one making the claims.
Don't ask me to tell you what evidence you should have.
Again, you're the one making the claim... You bring the evidence and explain how you feel it supports your religious claims and we'll go from there.

Just cut to the chase and bring me your BEST piece of evidence.
Make sure it is independently verifiable. I'm not interested in unverifiable anecdotes.

Well ill flip some cards over for you and show you where i was going.

Alternatively, you could just answer the question........................

I have a relationship with God through the Holy Spirit. I know there is a God! The Holy Spirit strengthens my position. Ask me something here?

You don't "know". You believe.

As AaronRa put it once: "you don't know it, if you can't show it".

Ive had an encounter with God spiritually in a way that is certain.

Alien abductees had encounters with aliens in a way that they feel certain as well.
That doesn't convince you, why should your "testimony" convince me?

:) i am now stubborn for God :)

You're stubborn, allrgith.

God is real to me. Like my friends and family are.

Thor was real to Vikings.
Mars was real to Romans.
Zeus was real to Greeks.
Ra was real to Egyptians.
Allah is reall to muslims.
Visjnoe is real to Hindu's.
Alien anal probes are real to alien abductees.

So if God is real to me and his existance is known to me, how do i disprove something that as real as you?

How do I differentiate your claim of knowledge from a simple delusion?
What do you say to a hindu who claims to "know" that Visjnoe is real?
Or to an abductee who claims to "know" that aliens are abducting and anally probing humans?

How do i disprove your existence?

/facepalm

Do you want to debate the existance of aliens? Do you believe in aliens?

Claimed alien abductees, surely do.

I don't. You probably don't either.
Yet, alien abductees claim the same kind of "experience based knowledge" as you do.

Maybe you should reflect on that for a few minutes and then see what you can learn from that in context of your own "experience based knowledge".
 
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DogmaHunter

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Yea, maybe that is what denominations say. That is inconsequential to the fact that Christianity is a relationship. The Word of God literally went to hell and back for all of us; if you are focusing on hell and heaven (and, not the Most High God), then you are already on the wrong track. As David said, doesn't matter if it is heaven or hell, the Most High God is there. Even in ignorance, He is inescapable. That is why a relationship based on love (obedience), trust (faith) and loyalty (righteousness) is the way to the Most High God - through the wisdom of His Son the Word of God Himself.

The "eternal" part is more of a consequence of the substance of "you." As I said, humans are painfully ignorant of the substance of what makes them "them", and in what image they were made.

Okay. Well, call me when christians can sort it out amongst themselves first.
 
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Ken-1122

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Hey hey my dear :)

Dont be shy. Lets converse, what have you got?

Edit - the blanks are filled out in my reply to mr dogmahunter, he wants to join in.



What makes you assume i have voices in my head?

Give me something convince me? What have you got?

Cheers my dear


What have I got? If you’re expecting me to provide proof that your idea of God does not exist; I can assure I have no interest in steering, you away from your theistic beliefs. I was just taking the question you asked, I turned it around and applied it to yourself hoping for an answer from you.

You see; the question you asked is a very difficult question to answer; akin to asking someone what they would do if they won the Billion dollar lottery. Yeah they might say I will do this or that, but if you actually won that much money , there would probably be a lot of things that take place that you aren’t anticipating right now. To ask an atheist what would convince him of God, he may say “to see something” or to “hear something”, but if he did see or hear something perhaps he might think his mind was playing tricks on him. How is he supposed to know how he would react if he saw the impossible?

But if he said nothing could convince him, he would look like a stubborn person who isn’t interested in the truth. That’s why I asked you the opposite question; so you could see the type of question you were asking, and to see how you would respond to such a question. Care to answer my question?
 
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Freodin

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How do I differentiate your claim of knowledge from a simple delusion?
What do you say to a hindu who claims to "know" that Visjnoe is real?
Or to an abductee who claims to "know" that aliens are abducting and anally probing humans?
There's a very common Christian answer to all that.

Demons.

Yes, all that stuff is real. It just isn't true, as their version is.

It absolves them perfectly from the necessity to explain their disbelieve in other religions.
 
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Robert65

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It improves their well being, their families well being, their friends well being, the environments well being?

I have found that the above can be improved without a belief in God.

So I don't think it's too hard to imagine it being actually true that it could not only improve their well being, but their families, their friends, the environment etc. And if this is the case, even if someone is 100% certain God doesn't exist. Shouldn't they still believe in God?

No. Belief should be absolute or not at all IMO. As an agnostic I see too many lukewarm Christians who lack the conviction to walk the talk. 1/2 measures Christians sully the entire religion and tend to be used to stereotype all Christians.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Yeah I've read some peoples brains are wired for atheism. The question becomes how much of that is influenced by your behavior. Because behavior shapes the brain as well. So who knows how much of your atheism is genetic and your life experience.

It seems like if this is true...

Then we should rely only upon those things which aren't a result of genetics or "life experience".
 
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Freodin

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It seems like if this is true...

Then we should rely only upon those things which aren't a result of genetics or "life experience".
Ah, isn't condescension sweet?

It cannot be that you have reasons for your atheism... no, it's just your genetics, your brain wiring, your experiences...
 
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