O That the Atheist....

[Desk trauma]

"And now, where are the scoffers of these last days, who count the lives of Christians to be madness, and their end to be without honor? Unhappy men! you know not what you do. Were your eyes open and had you senses to discern spiritual things, you would not speak all manner of evil against the children of God, but you would esteem them as the excellent ones of the earth and envy their happiness. Your souls would hunger and thirst after it; you also would become fools for Christ’s sake. You boast of wisdom, so did the philosophers of Corinth—but your wisdom is the foolishness of folly in the sight of God.

What will your wisdom avail you, if it does not make you wise unto salvation? Can you, with all your wisdom, propose a more consistent scheme to build your hopes of salvation on, than what has been now laid down before you? Can you, with all the strength of natural reason, find out a better way of acceptance with God than by the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ? Is it right to think your own works can in any measure deserve or procure it?

If not, why will you not believe in Him? Why will you not submit to His righteousness? Can you deny that you are fallen creatures? Do not you find that you are full of disorders, and that these disorders make you unhappy? Do not you find that you cannot change your own hearts? Have you not resolved many and many a time, and have not your corruptions yet dominion over you? Are you not bond-slaves to your lust, and led captive by the devil at his will?

Why then will you not come to Christ for sanctification? Do you not desire to die the death of the righteous, and that your future state may be like theirs? I am persuaded you cannot bear the thought of being annihilated, much less of being miserable forever. Whatever you may pretend, if you speak truth, you must confess that conscience breaks in upon you in your more sober intervals, whether you will or not, and even constrains you to believe that hell is no painted fire. And why then will you not come to Christ? He alone can procure you everlasting redemption!

Haste, haste away to Him, poor beguiled sinners. You lack wisdom; ask it of Christ. Who knows but He may give it you? He is able, for He is the wisdom of the Father; He is that wisdom which was from everlasting. You have no righteousness; away, therefore, to Christ: He is the end of the Law for righteousness to every one that believeth. You are unholy; flee to the Lord Jesus: He is full of grace and truth; and of His fullness, all may receive that believe in Him. You are as if afraid to die; let this drive you to Christ: He has the keys of death and hell. In Him is plenteous redemption; He alone can open the door that leads to everlasting life.

Let not, therefore, the deceived reasoner boast any longer of his pretended reason. Whatever you may think, it is the most unreasonable thing in the world not to believe on Jesus Christ, Whom God hath sent. Why, why will you die? Why will you not come unto Him that you may have life?" - George Whitefield

“Balderdash and shenanigans” - me

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

“Balderdash and shenanigans” - me

LOL!

(It is just truth be told, and since a lot of you don't like to read Bible text, I happened to have this little booklet here that's also online where that portion contains no Bible text but relates Biblical truth

It is neither nonsense, or mischievous - but I like your choice of words...)

 

[Hans Blaster]

"And now, where are the scoffers of these last days, who count the lives of Christians to be madness, and their end to be without honor? Unhappy men! you know not what you do. Were your eyes open and had you senses to discern spiritual things, you would not speak all manner of evil against the children of God, but you would esteem them as the excellent ones of the earth and envy their happiness. Your souls would hunger and thirst after it; you also would become fools for Christ’s sake. You boast of wisdom, so did the philosophers of Corinth—but your wisdom is the foolishness of folly in the sight of God.

What will your wisdom avail you, if it does not make you wise unto salvation? Can you, with all your wisdom, propose a more consistent scheme to build your hopes of salvation on, than what has been now laid down before you? Can you, with all the strength of natural reason, find out a better way of acceptance with God than by the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ? Is it right to think your own works can in any measure deserve or procure it?

If not, why will you not believe in Him? Why will you not submit to His righteousness? Can you deny that you are fallen creatures? Do not you find that you are full of disorders, and that these disorders make you unhappy? Do not you find that you cannot change your own hearts? Have you not resolved many and many a time, and have not your corruptions yet dominion over you? Are you not bond-slaves to your lust, and led captive by the devil at his will?

Why then will you not come to Christ for sanctification? Do you not desire to die the death of the righteous, and that your future state may be like theirs? I am persuaded you cannot bear the thought of being annihilated, much less of being miserable forever. Whatever you may pretend, if you speak truth, you must confess that conscience breaks in upon you in your more sober intervals, whether you will or not, and even constrains you to believe that hell is no painted fire. And why then will you not come to Christ? He alone can procure you everlasting redemption!

Haste, haste away to Him, poor beguiled sinners. You lack wisdom; ask it of Christ. Who knows but He may give it you? He is able, for He is the wisdom of the Father; He is that wisdom which was from everlasting. You have no righteousness; away, therefore, to Christ: He is the end of the Law for righteousness to every one that believeth. You are unholy; flee to the Lord Jesus: He is full of grace and truth; and of His fullness, all may receive that believe in Him. You are as if afraid to die; let this drive you to Christ: He has the keys of death and hell. In Him is plenteous redemption; He alone can open the door that leads to everlasting life.

Let not, therefore, the deceived reasoner boast any longer of his pretended reason. Whatever you may think, it is the most unreasonable thing in the world not to believe on Jesus Christ, Whom God hath sent. Why, why will you die? Why will you not come unto Him that you may have life?" - George Whitefield

What was the point of that? What does this preaching have to do with this thread (or anything)? I don't even know who George Whitefeld is or care.

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

What was the point of that? What does this preaching have to do with this thread (or anything)? I don't even know who George Whitefeld is or care.

He was one of the original Methodists. Mid 1700's. That message was to unbelievers. That would equate to Atheists as Atheists by definition are unbelievers.

What will you all do when in the end you find out death is not a blinking out of existence, you stand before a holy God and Jesus who shed His blood for atonement of sin, and rose from the dead, and that you all were offered this free gift of salvation, but refused to take it?

What then shall you say? There is nothing you can do, except weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I know many don't believe that, but no amount of unbelief will make it go away.

The day is coming: it is coming for everyone - either at death , or when Christ returns again, and every eye shall see Him when He comes on the clouds of heaven with great power and glory. All will fall at His feet, either willingly, or unwillingly.

 

[Hans Blaster]

He was one of the original Methodists. Mid 1700's. That message was to unbelievers. That would equate to Atheists as Atheists by definition are unbelievers.

At least you know what an atheist is. (Some on here don't or refuse to know. Sigh.) As a non-believer I saw nothing of value in that sermon, so I stopped reading it.

What will you all do when in the end you find out death is not a blinking out of existence, you stand before a holy God and Jesus who shed His blood for atonement of sin, and rose from the dead, and that you all were offered this free gift of salvation, but refused to take it?

I did accept and then I walked away. I'm not worried in the slightest.

What then shall you say? There is nothing you can do, except weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I know many don't believe that, but no amount of unbelief will make it go away.

The day is coming: it is coming for everyone - either at death , or when Christ returns again, and every eye shall see Him when He comes on the clouds of heaven with great power and glory. All will fall at His feet, either willingly, or unwillingly.

If only you had something more compelling than claims, but nothing you present here is anything but a claim.

 

[BCP1928]

There is absolutely no evidence of this.

Memories are stored in the brain. LOL.

Um, seems you've conflated memories with facts based on knew knowledge.


Exactly. as far as we know the mind is simply a function of the brain, the brain can send signals to the muscles and make the body move. The mind cannot magically send signals to a lightbulb, or someone else's brain or body.

It's how brains work. Brains control the body.

Voila, you are getting it now.

The mind also ceases to be as the brain stops working.

I'll believe you if you learn how to transmitt to someone else's brain and take over control of their body.

Because
1. There is no evidence which requires mind-body dualism to explain it.
2. There is no need of such an explanation. Not even Christian doctrine requires it.

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

At least you know what an atheist is. (Some on here don't or refuse to know. Sigh.) As a non-believer I saw nothing of value in that sermon, so I stopped reading it.

I did accept and then I walked away. I'm not worried in the slightest.

If only you had something more compelling than claims, but nothing you present here is anything but a claim.

Ah, but the Word of God is the claim, for God does not lie, and His prophecies are true. Jesus came exactly as predicted hundreds, even thousands of years before, by at least 300 prophecies. The odds of even 8 of the prophecies being correct is like one in 100, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, or 10 to the 17th.
And then there's all the Creation, the matter of earth, the sun, the planets, the stars, etc. - Came from ????

 

[Desk trauma]

What will you all do when in the end you find out death is not a blinking out of existence, you stand before a holy God and Jesus who shed His blood for atonement of sin, and rose from the dead, and that you all were offered this free gift of salvation, but refused to take it?

Likely something similar to what you would if you found yourself before another displeased deity.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Ah, but the Word of God is the claim, for God does not lie,

So you claim. I see no reason to buy that claim for it is a claim that these words are those of a deity and I see no reason to take that claim seriously.

and His prophecies are true. Jesus came exactly as predicted hundreds, even thousands of years before, by at least 300 prophecies. The odds of even 8 of the prophecies being correct is like one in 100, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, or 10 to the 17th.

Vague prophesies "fulfilled" later? Not even sure how you would calculate the "odds" even if you accepted the fulfillment.

And then there's all the Creation, the matter of earth, the sun, the planets, the stars, etc. - Came from ????

Go over to the science board and ask this question. We will be glad to tell you. It's well known.

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

So you claim. I see no reason to buy that claim for it is a claim that these words are those of a deity and I see no reason to take that claim seriously.

Vague prophesies "fulfilled" later? Not even sure how you would calculate the "odds" even if you accepted the fulfillment.

Go over to the science board and ask this question. We will be glad to tell you. It's well known.

Not vague. Foretold the method by which he'd be crucified, long before crucifixion was a method of execution. Foretold the town he was born in.
He'd be born of a virgin. He'd be called out of Egypt. His ministry would begin in Galilee, Messiah would be preceded by a forerunner of a man who was a voice crying in the wilderness, Jerusalem will rejoice when Messiah comes in riding on a donkey, He'd be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver, none of his bones would be broken at His sacrifice, his clothing would be divided, but they would cast lots for his coat. They would give him vinegar and gall on the cross, Messiah will usher in a new covenant, children would be killed as a result of his birth.

ALL of these were fulfilled by Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Son of the Living God.

Now you might say He himself could have fulfilled them by knowing them, but that's only a few - such as riding into Jerusalem on a Donkey, and beginning His ministry in Galilee.

But, no way could He consciously fulfil things like where he was born, the oppressor ordering the children killed, how He would die, no bone broken, John the Baptist crying in the wilderness, Judas betraying for 30 pieces of silver, etc

These are not vague Nostradamus type prophecies. These are the very words of Yahweh, the LORD God of Hosts.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Not vague. Foretold the method by which he'd be crucified, long before crucifixion was a method of execution. Foretold the town he was born in.
He'd be born of a virgin. He'd be called out of Egypt. His ministry would begin in Galilee, Messiah would be preceded by a forerunner of a man who was a voice crying in the wilderness, Jerusalem will rejoice when Messiah comes in riding on a donkey, He'd be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver, none of his bones would be broken at His sacrifice, his clothing would be divided, but they would cast lots for his coat. They would give him vinegar and gall on the cross, Messiah will usher in a new covenant, children would be killed as a result of his birth.

Are these really prophecy? How many did the gospel writers add to the story to make it look like fulfilled prophesy?

ALL of these were fulfilled by Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Son of the Living God.

Now you might say He himself could have fulfilled them by knowing them, but that's only a few - such as riding into Jerusalem on a Donkey, and beginning His ministry in Galilee.

Or the writers could.

But, no way could He consciously fulfil things like where he was born, the oppressor ordering the children killed, how He would die, no bone broken, John the Baptist crying in the wilderness, Judas betraying for 30 pieces of silver, etc

These are not vague Nostradamus type prophecies. These are the very words of Yahweh, the LORD God of Hosts.

That "wilderness" thing is very vague. None of this is convincing to those that don't accept the truthfulness of the gospels a priori.

 

[Tinker Grey]

He'd be called out of Egypt.

Are these really prophecy? How many did the gospel writers add to the story to make it look like fulfilled prophesy?

This is a great question. Generally, the footnotes show that this is thought to be from Hosea 11:1 which says

When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called my son.​

which explicitly says "Israel" ... not messiah, not son of man, not son of God ... nothing. How is this prophecy?

Add to that the context: Hosea 11:1-2

1) When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called my son.
2) But the more they were called,
the more they went away from me.[a]
They sacrificed to the Baals
and they burned incense to images.
​

So why is one phrase incorrectly referenced a prophecy, but not the rest of the phrase about sacrificing to Baals and burning incense to images?

Dumb.

"Matthew" was high.

 

[AlexB23]

Naw. All you did is preach.

Agreed. As a Christian, it bugs me when someone decides to preach in the wrong situation. It makes Christians look bad. @Kokavkrystallos could have gone about this in a different way, and posted in a different subforum. His OP has nothing to do with ethics and morality, based upon the SOP.


Based on the Ethics & Morality forum Statement of Purpose (SOP) guidelines, here are seven reasons why Kokavkrystallos' post may be considered a rule breaker:

1. Promotion of a specific belief system: The post advocates for believing in God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit as the only way to be saved and avoid hell. This goes against the subforum's guideline that discussions on ethics and morality may not be used to promote a specific belief system or religion.
2. Disregard for handling disagreements: The post includes the statement "Do not debate with the LORD, for you shall lose!" which discourages respectful dialogue and disagreement among forum members. This contradicts the subforum's guideline that members should address the content of posts rather than attacking the poster, and engage in respectful discourse even during disagreements.
3. Homiletic tone: The post is written in a preaching or sermon-like style, which may not be suitable for a forum designed for discussions on ethics and morality. The tone is overly persuasive and prescriptive rather than inviting open dialogue and respectful discourse.
4. Lack of respect for diverse beliefs: The post implies that atheists, deists, unitarians, agnostics, and others who do not share the same belief system are lost, beneath the wrath of a Holy God, and condemned to hell. His post also mentions the KJV Bible, which not all Christians use. This disregards the forum's guideline that members should treat each other with courtesy and respect at all times, especially during disagreements.
5. Off-topic: The post is primarily about promoting a specific belief system rather than addressing conduct based on ethics and morality as stated in the forum's purpose.
6. Non-compliance with sitewide rules: The post may be considered non-compliant with the sitewide rules, as it could be perceived as promoting a controversial belief system in a subforum meant for all beliefs, and potentially violating the rule against flame or goading.
7. Lack of thread tags: The post does not include any relevant thread tags that enable users to find other threads on similar topics, making it difficult for users to engage in productive discussions and debates.