SDA

[Karola]

Yes--And who is it that He makes a covenant with? And when?

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’b]'>[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.’c]'>[c]

18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

This covenant began when sacrifices for sin were no longer necessary. It is made for anyone who accepts Christ as their saviour

 

[Karola]

And the law not being written in ink but written on the heart obviously includes gentiles, for Paul wrote that to gentiles!!!

 

[mmksparbud]

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’b]'>[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.’c]'>[c]

18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

This covenant began when sacrifices for sin were no longer necessary. It is made for anyone who accepts Christ as their saviour

Exactly--anyone who accepts Christ as their Savior--there are millions who haven't -- yet. And many who say they have but haven't --I was even baptized as a teenager. An outward show only---meant not one single, solitary thing to me. I started reading my bible again in my 30's. I'd forgotten everything--I had been so angry with God I had told Him to go away and leave me alone, out loud. I had gotten involved with a man after my divorce who only wanted a wife that was of his faith--Church of God--back when the founder was still alive. He gave me a book--I read the bible and felt that it was not true---I kept on reading--searched other faiths again but still didn't want to come back to God-just curious. Took a while before I finally surrendered. It was the ink the lead me back. It was the Holy Spirit that then finally took over. He had been leading all along, really--In my anger I had kept saying no. One day I got the distinct impression--"I will not ask again"--scared me for some strange reason--still took a while though.

 

[mmksparbud]

And the law not being written in ink but written on the heart obviously includes gentiles, for Paul wrote that to gentiles!!!

No--He wrote it to Jews, and the very first Christians. Then He went to the Gentiles. And preached the word of God to them until they accepted Christ.

 

[Karola]

No--He wrote it to Jews, and the very first Christians. Then He went to the Gentiles. And preached the word of God to them until they accepted Christ.

I'm not going to continue a discussion, where all you care about is trying to reason anything, however absurd, in order to defend your particular belief and that of your denomination. And You will sacrifice sola scripture, to do it, for what matters to you most, in truth is not what is written in the bible but defending your beliefs. SDA are not the only ones to do this of course, people will reason anything on the internet, to defend their particular denominational beliefs. I will leave you to it

 

[mmksparbud]

I'm not going to continue a discussion, where all you care about is trying to defend your particular belief and that of your denomination. And You will sacrifice sola scripture, to do it, for what matters to you most, in truth is not what is written in the bible but defending your beliefs. SDA are not the only ones to do this of course, people will reason anything on the internet, to defend their particular denominational beliefs. I will leave you to it

Hardly that--but what can be said for those that fell for David Koresh, Jim Jones and others like them under the guise of being Christian?
It shows these people had an appalling lack of knowledge of what the word of God says or they would not have gone to them and on to their deaths.

 

[Karola]

What is plainly written in the bible may not be true, this is proven by those who followed after David Koresh, Jim Jones and others etc.
Maybe only Jews have the laws written in their hearts etc

Non stimulating discussion

 

[mmksparbud]

What is plainly written in the bible may not be true, this is proven by those who followed after David Koresh, Jim Jones and others etc.
Maybe only Jews have the laws written in their hearts etc

Non stimulating discussion

But that is the point--what is plainly written in the bible would have led them away from those cults, never into them! Just asked a former Mormon this also--and she said it is just that--an appalling lack of knowledge of the word of God. When she read the bible--she came out of Mormonism. Why would only Jews have the law written in their hearts?

 

[Karola]

The internet creed of some:

I will reason anything in order to defend my, and my denominations beliefs, for that is what matters most, not what is actually written in the Bible. And if I have to jettison sola scripture to do it, sobeit, it is a price I am willing to pay. However, when I myself quote scripture, I expect, no I demand everyone accepts what I write.

 

[Karola]

For the record, I avidly read the bible, the Holy Spirit reveals immense truth to you through it.
However, where the law is concerned God desires you to follow, scripture is very clear. Un der the new covenant, that law is written in your mind and placed on your heart. It is not a law written in ink, but one written by the Spirit of the living God on tablets of human hearts.
Can anything meaningfull come from these kinds of debates, where people will reason anything rather than accept what scripture plainly states, in order to follow in effect follow old covenant paths led by their particular denomination? No

 

[Karola]

It is very interesting to note, that those who insist you must follow a specific Saturday sabbath, rely on a law written in ink to believe that, not a conviction that comes from within, and under the new covenant, the conviction comes from within concerning law to be followed, for that is where the law has been placed

 

[mmksparbud]

It is very interesting to note, that those who insist you must follow a specific Saturday sabbath, rely on a law written in ink to believe that, not a conviction that comes from within, and under the new covenant, the conviction comes from within concerning law to be followed, for that is where the law has been placed

Sooo very, very wrong-it is a conviction that comes from within--it is from the Holy Spirit--hope one day you will listen to it----bye.

 

[Karola]

It keeps coming back to the same thing. You either follow after the Holy Spirit or the written code, you cannot do both according to Paul. The Holy Spirit, who is the Spirit of truth was given to lead believers into truth.
Follow after the written code, and you rely on what is written in ink to know the law God desires you to follow. That is not Spirit led Christianity, you are devoid of it

 

[Karola]

Sooo very, very wrong-it is a conviction that comes from within--it is from the Holy Spirit--hope one day you will listen to it----bye.

So you had an inner conviction you must follow a specific Saturday sabbath from within, without firstly reading law written in ink? I do not believe that, and I doubt anyone else would either
Bye

 

[mmksparbud]

It keeps coming back to the same thing. You either follow after the Holy Spirit or the written code, you cannot do both according to Paul. The Holy Spirit, who is the Spirit of truth was given to lead believers into truth.
Follow after the written code, and you rely on what is written in ink to know the law God desires you to follow. That is not Spirit led Christianity, you are devoid of it

LOL!! When you know the Spirit is leading--you know it--I know it---but many people will not listen-messes with their routine! Thank you for your diagnosis! God is the final judge.

 

[mmksparbud]

So you had an inner conviction you must follow a specific Saturday sabbath from within, without firstly reading law written in ink? I do not believe that, and I doubt anyone else would either
Bye

You don't listen very well--do you? Post #825 answered that. You either did not read it or ignored what I said fir your own theory---you have a tendency to do that a lot.

 

[Karola]

You don't listen very well--do you? Post #825 answered that. You either did not read it or ignored what I said fir your own theory---you have a tendency to do that a lot.

Yep, you were convicted to follow a specific Saturday sabbath by firstly reading law written in ink, thanks

 

[mmksparbud]

Yep, you were convicted to follow a specific Saturday sabbath by firstly reading law written in ink, thanks

You're welcome.

 

[bekkilyn]

Wrong--that is the truth according to the bible! Not one of those verses says they were together for the porpoise of worshipping on that day.


Funny those are the very same ones we use to prove there was no worshipping on Sundays!! The only times Sundays are mentioned is when something out of the ordinary happened on those days!

1. Jesus rose on the first day of the week not the Sabbath: Mk 16:9--Right, even on the sabbath He rested!
2. All 6 appearances of Jesus happen on two Sundays, none on Sabbath. Mk 16:9; Mt 28:5-9; Lk 24:34; Lk 24:13-15; Lk 24:33,36 + Jn 20:19; Jn 20:26---Exactly! He was keeping the Sabbath with the disciples!
3. Christians are recorded assembling three times on Sunday after resurrection and before ascension, never on the Sabbath. Jn 20:19 Jn 20:26 Acts 2:1 (We do not claim that these were worship services, just the early starting point of Sunday gatherings)Right--they were not worshipping on these days! And they make one big mistake--they are not using how the bible counts for days-it is evening to morning--meeting on Sat. night, In other words--the 1st day of the week begins Sundown Saturday night.
4. The only time Christians are recorded to have assembled together was on a Sunday in Acts 20:7, never does it say the disciples assembled on the Sabbath.-- Right!! Only time! Same as above-they met on Saturday night, the beginning of the 1st day of the week, and Paul preached until midnight. He didn't preach from Sunday morning until midnight! That isn't a sermon, that's a filibuster! He reached from sundown Saturday night until midnight. Still a mighty long sermon! They ate and then he preached some more--until the morning---which would have been Sunday morning. If Paul had kept Sunday-he would not have traveled that day. And if he had meant Monday morning, it would then have been the 2nd day of the week. In other words-they met after Sundown Saturday night (evening Sabbath vespers as it were!)
5. The only day ever mentioned when Christians broke bread was on Sunday: Acts 20:7--Right--Same as above
6. Christians are commanded every Sunday to give into a common treasury of the church: 1 Cor 16:1-2---not exactly--they were commanded to gather the money on Sunday-what they had to give from the previous weeks' of labor--and hold it for when Paul came so as to not to gather money together at the time he came, but have it ready for Paul when he came by on Sunday on his way to Jerusalem--If he had kept Sunday he would not have traveled on Sunday.
7. Jesus was declared the Son of God on Sunday: Rom 1:4--He was resurrected on Sunday-declaring with that act that He was indeed the Son of God--it has already been established He resurrected on Sunday--resting on the Sabbath.
8. Ps 2:7 "Today I have begotten thee" was fulfilled on Sunday when he rose: Acts 13:33--Right, He still rested on the Sabbath.
9. The sign that Jesus was glorified was given on Sunday: Jn 7:39 + Acts 2:1,32--Still nothing to suggest that Jesus said to worship on that day instead of the Sabbath. They would have observed the Sabbath before Pentecost.
10. The church officially began on Pentecost Sunday: Acts 2:1--They were together in one accord on the day of Pentecost for that purpose-not to have Sabbath wordship.
11. Jesus was crowned king on a Sunday: Acts 2:33-36---Right--Would not have been crowned on the Sabbath.
12. The disciples reception of the promise of the Father on Sunday: Acts 1:4-5; 2:1-4
13. The Holy Spirit first fell upon the apostles on a Sunday: Acts 2:1-4
14. Salvation first preached by Peter on Sunday: Mt 16:19; Acts 2:1,38,40-41
15. The Keys to the Kingdom of God were first used on Sunday: Mt 16:19
16. The great "Triumphal entry" (also called "Palm Sunday") happened on the first day: Luke 13:32--Absolutely--Christ would not have done so on a Sabbath!
17. The time between the Lord's resurrection (sheaf waving day) and Pentecost was Sunday to Sunday counting of 50 days. The starting and stopping time was on the 1st day.
18. First time Jesus worshiped after resurrection was on the first day by Thomas (Jn. 20:26). Doesn't say a word about worship. They were together on the first day of the week--at evening-meaning again it was on a Saturday night. Then they got together 8 days later--which would have been Sunday night--if they had gathered together first on Sunday night--8 days later would have been Monday.
19. The first time we could be born again to a living hope was on a Sunday: 1 Pet. 1:3
20. The first time Jesus had communion after his resurrection with His disciples, was on a Sunday: (Lk. 24:1, 13, 28-35)That was not communion--they were having dinner!!
21. Pentecost was a Sunday - Sunday duration of 50 days. The starting point and stopping point of counting the 50 days was a Sunday - Sunday period!--Yes--And??? Nothing to do with Sabbath!

I skipped some--didn't really see any relevance to Sabbath.

OK--have to say this---I have diabetic neuropathy in my hands, I can't direct them too well--it takes me forever to type anything. I used to type 80 words a minute with maybe one mistake--I now can't type a little sentence without mistakes--sometimes not even one word! I proof read about 3-4 times and still don't catch all mistakes. Sorry I take so long--I do the best I can. I keep doing this because it is good therapy for my hands.

(You don't need to apologize for taking the time you need. I have no expectation of any instant responses. )

See, now you are completely redefining what worship is and severely limiting it to a very narrow concept. Whenever we gather together in his name is worship regardless of what we are doing. You don't think having a meal with the transformed Christ in the flesh isn't worship? We're talking about communion with him in his very person! Wow, I would be overcome had I been there!

The reason you can't find much if any relevance to the sabbath is that there is no relevance to the sabbath. They were meeting together on the first day of the week on all of those occasions not to observe a sabbath day, but to worship God and to celebrate Christ's resurrection. That's what a worship service for non-sabbatarian Christians is all about! Maybe sabbatarians meet together only to corporately have a sabbath day and whatever that entails, but that's not what the rest of us are doing or at least the why of what we're doing. We meet because of all the stuff listed above and more. It's about honoring and glorifying God...worshiping him and honoring him. It doesn't even have to be on Sunday or any other day of the week and many congregations offer services on other days too. Nothing whatsoever to do with sabbath because Gentiles are not under the Sinai covenant that includes a ritual sabbath day and never have been.

You seem to want so much for the first day of the week to have no meaning that you have to creatively make it appear as if nothing significant happened on that day, but in reality, practically everything of significance in the new testament happened on that day.

If observing a sabbath was of primary importance, then not only would all the apostles, disciples, and even Jesus himself be proclaiming it throughout the gospels and letters, but all the significant events pertaining to Christians (as distinguished from Jews) would have also happened on the sabbath, but that's not the case. The sabbath is the sabbath and was specifically for the Israelites at Sinai and their descendants, and "The Way" noted the first day of the week as Christ Jesus, God himself in the flesh, was resurrected that day, and it was his resurrection that changed everything. Without the resurrection, absolutely none of it would matter because we would all be condemned no matter how many laws and sabbath days we diligently followed.

 

[bekkilyn]

Yes--but the first time He created Sabbath there were no Jews!! And when Jesus said Sabbath was made for man--He did not say Sabbath was made for Jews..

And the first time he actually commanded anyone to observe a sabbath day, to write it into law, was in the covenant he made with the Israelites physically present at the mountain at Sinai (and *not* with their ancestors, i.e. Abraham, Adam, Sarah, etc.) and their descendants, i.e. Jews.

In the garden, there was no evening and morning. God was there...Jesus, who IS our rest, and the Spirit of course were there, and there was a ongoing sabbath after the six days were done. And now after the resurrection, this is the type of sabbath we have yet again through Christ. We should not be mistaking God's sabbath with the ritual weekly sabbath he commanded to the Israelites at Sinai and used specifically as a sign for that covenant. Observing a weekly ritual sabbath has no further function because that ritual sabbath was just a shadow that was pointing to Christ, our true rest, all along.

I wonder if it was coincidence that the following article appeared in my inbox this morning:

Giving Sabbath A Rest