SDA

[bekkilyn]

Wrong--it was because the majority of the pagans were doing so and this was a way to bring them in and to differentiate from the Jews completely. Christians and Jews were worshipping on Saturday. That is the truth.

That's the "truth" that you've been indoctrinated into believing. When you see that Christians were meeting together on the first day of the week right there in new testament scripture and then the *multiple* accounts by writers in the centuries long before Constantine who described Christians regularly meeting on Sundays, then it's kind of difficult to keep supporting the idea that they were worshiping on Saturdays. Constantine was giving them the day they were already using.

 

[bekkilyn]

As I keep saying--so far so good-time will tell!

That's what everyone else is saying too about their own theories.

 

[mmksparbud]

Of course he decides, but he can also decide who he tells to do something without us being presumptuous to think that everything he says to someone else also applies directly to us too.

True--however, if Adam and Eve had remained faithful and had children in the garden--would the tree (if it had remained) still not be off limits to them?
One also has to be not so presumptuous as to believe what He says applies only to one individual or group if He did not specifically specify it so.

 

[Karola]

It is not deflection - what I am explaining is that while I don't believe a person is lost each time they sin - I also don't believe in the false doctrine of OSAS.



So then you don't know what justification is?? Did you suppose that one can be saved but not justified - or justified but not saved???

I spelled out exactly what I think when it comes to salvation -- you seem to have invented a kind of justification where salvation does not matter or is not involved. In the Bible you cannot be justified - but lost or saved but-not-justified.



Obviously they do - because there is no such thing as "Saved but not justified". Not one single person in heaven will get there "saved but not justified"

How do you even come up with that? Where is that idea coming from??



"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 -- that scripture is not changing.
The only way out of it is repentance and forgiveness.

But God does not cause you to lose your new-creation , new-heart, saved state each time you sin. (As already stated). The saints look at sin as revolting to their new-birth nature and are driven to repentance. We would not need forgiveness or repentance or to claim the blood of Christ as payment for our sins - if sin "was just so much trivia" to the saints.

There is no text declaring sin to be the friend of the saint or the home of the saint or the way of the saints. see Romans 8:4-11

in Christ,

Bob

So you believe When a Christian breaks the law-as they will for no one is perfect, they do not lose their righteousness/justification before God. When a Christian breaks the law they are not condemned by the law. Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more does not only apply if you do not break the law. Could I call you a progressive seventh day Adventist?

 

[bekkilyn]

No--the agreement is they go as they are for now--but that they are under the covering of the Papacy, whatever thst means!(that's the fine print nobody reads!)

Not the agreement that I was directed to. I keep hearing of these occasions where protestant churches are submitting themselves under the papacy/pope, but so far, no one has been able to produce the actual agreement involved or anything other than hearsay that it is happening.

 

[mmksparbud]

But God, under the new covenant does not deliver truth concerning law to follow through reading what is written in ink, but through what is written on your heart by the Spirit of the living God. You must be missing out on something, according to what is written in scripture

If He didn't---He would not have said this
2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[bekkilyn]

True--however, if Adam and Eve had remained faithful and had children in the garden--would the tree (if it had remained) still not be off limits to them?
One also has to be not so presumptuous as to believe what He says applies only to one individual or group if He did not specifically specify it so.

Except that when he DID clearly specify the group that what he says applies to, like the ten commandments in the old covenant, he's apparently not to be believed!

 

[Karola]

If He didn't---He would not have said this
2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Immeterial to the fact the law is in your heart and mind, it is not a law written in ink for the believer

 

[mmksparbud]

That's the "truth" that you've been indoctrinated into believing. When you see that Christians were meeting together on the first day of the week right there in new testament scripture and then the *multiple* accounts by writers in the centuries long before Constantine who described Christians regularly meeting on Sundays, then it's kind of difficult to keep supporting the idea that they were worshiping on Saturdays. Constantine was giving them the day they were already using.

Wrong--that is the truth according to the bible! Not one of those verses says they were together for the porpoise of worshipping on that day.

Took me about two seconds of googling:

The significance of the first day of the week (Sunday) for Christians

Funny those are the very same ones we use to prove there was no worshipping on Sundays!! The only times Sundays are mentioned is when something out of the ordinary happened on those days!

1. Jesus rose on the first day of the week not the Sabbath: Mk 16:9--Right, even on the sabbath He rested!
2. All 6 appearances of Jesus happen on two Sundays, none on Sabbath. Mk 16:9; Mt 28:5-9; Lk 24:34; Lk 24:13-15; Lk 24:33,36 + Jn 20:19; Jn 20:26---Exactly! He was keeping the Sabbath with the disciples!
3. Christians are recorded assembling three times on Sunday after resurrection and before ascension, never on the Sabbath. Jn 20:19 Jn 20:26 Acts 2:1 (We do not claim that these were worship services, just the early starting point of Sunday gatherings)Right--they were not worshipping on these days! And they make one big mistake--they are not using how the bible counts for days-it is evening to morning--meeting on Sat. night, In other words--the 1st day of the week begins Sundown Saturday night.
4. The only time Christians are recorded to have assembled together was on a Sunday in Acts 20:7, never does it say the disciples assembled on the Sabbath.-- Right!! Only time! Same as above-they met on Saturday night, the beginning of the 1st day of the week, and Paul preached until midnight. He didn't preach from Sunday morning until midnight! That isn't a sermon, that's a filibuster! He reached from sundown Saturday night until midnight. Still a mighty long sermon! They ate and then he preached some more--until the morning---which would have been Sunday morning. If Paul had kept Sunday-he would not have traveled that day. And if he had meant Monday morning, it would then have been the 2nd day of the week. In other words-they met after Sundown Saturday night (evening Sabbath vespers as it were!)
5. The only day ever mentioned when Christians broke bread was on Sunday: Acts 20:7--Right--Same as above
6. Christians are commanded every Sunday to give into a common treasury of the church: 1 Cor 16:1-2---not exactly--they were commanded to gather the money on Sunday-what they had to give from the previous weeks' of labor--and hold it for when Paul came so as to not to gather money together at the time he came, but have it ready for Paul when he came by on Sunday on his way to Jerusalem--If he had kept Sunday he would not have traveled on Sunday.
7. Jesus was declared the Son of God on Sunday: Rom 1:4--He was resurrected on Sunday-declaring with that act that He was indeed the Son of God--it has already been established He resurrected on Sunday--resting on the Sabbath.
8. Ps 2:7 "Today I have begotten thee" was fulfilled on Sunday when he rose: Acts 13:33--Right, He still rested on the Sabbath.
9. The sign that Jesus was glorified was given on Sunday: Jn 7:39 + Acts 2:1,32--Still nothing to suggest that Jesus said to worship on that day instead of the Sabbath. They would have observed the Sabbath before Pentecost.
10. The church officially began on Pentecost Sunday: Acts 2:1--They were together in one accord on the day of Pentecost for that purpose-not to have Sabbath wordship.
11. Jesus was crowned king on a Sunday: Acts 2:33-36---Right--Would not have been crowned on the Sabbath.
12. The disciples reception of the promise of the Father on Sunday: Acts 1:4-5; 2:1-4
13. The Holy Spirit first fell upon the apostles on a Sunday: Acts 2:1-4
14. Salvation first preached by Peter on Sunday: Mt 16:19; Acts 2:1,38,40-41
15. The Keys to the Kingdom of God were first used on Sunday: Mt 16:19
16. The great "Triumphal entry" (also called "Palm Sunday") happened on the first day: Luke 13:32--Absolutely--Christ would not have done so on a Sabbath!
17. The time between the Lord's resurrection (sheaf waving day) and Pentecost was Sunday to Sunday counting of 50 days. The starting and stopping time was on the 1st day.
18. First time Jesus worshiped after resurrection was on the first day by Thomas (Jn. 20:26). Doesn't say a word about worship. They were together on the first day of the week--at evening-meaning again it was on a Saturday night. Then they got together 8 days later--which would have been Sunday night--if they had gathered together first on Sunday night--8 days later would have been Monday.
19. The first time we could be born again to a living hope was on a Sunday: 1 Pet. 1:3
20. The first time Jesus had communion after his resurrection with His disciples, was on a Sunday: (Lk. 24:1, 13, 28-35)That was not communion--they were having dinner!!
21. Pentecost was a Sunday - Sunday duration of 50 days. The starting point and stopping point of counting the 50 days was a Sunday - Sunday period!--Yes--And??? Nothing to do with Sabbath!

I skipped some--didn't really see any relevance to Sabbath.

OK--have to say this---I have diabetic neuropathy in my hands, I can't direct them too well--it takes me forever to type anything. I used to type 80 words a minute with maybe one mistake--I now can't type a little sentence without mistakes--sometimes not even one word! I proof read about 3-4 times and still don't catch all mistakes. Sorry I take so long--I do the best I can. I keep doing this because it is good therapy for my hands.

 

[mmksparbud]

Except that when he DID clearly specify the group that what he says applies to, like the ten commandments in the old covenant, he's apparently not to be believed!

Yes--but the first time He created Sabbath there were no Jews!! And when Jesus said Sabbath was made for man--He did not say Sabbath was made for Jews..

 

[mmksparbud]

Immeterial to the fact the law is in your heart and mind, it is not a law written in ink for the believer

Mat_4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Sorry--but I do not regard the Holy Scriptures as immaterial!!

 

[mmksparbud]

Hey--I've been praying everyday that God keeps my computer going----I have about 4 bags of ice I keep in the freezer and rotate as one bag melts. Today--when I turned it on--the crazy fan made a noise and turned on! Haven't had to use the ice! So cool--sorry--no pun intended!

 

[Karola]

Mat_4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Sorry--but I do not regard the Holy Scriptures as immaterial!!

Don't try and twist what I write. Under the new covenant it is not a law written in ink, but one written by the Spirit of the living God on human hearts. That is what the bible says. So to quote the verse you are, in relation to this, is immaterial, for I will repeat, scripture says it is not a law written in ink for the believer. Those who have to read what is written in ink to know what the law is they should follow, obviously do not have new covenant Christianity as they should have it, rather a form of the old covenant


This is the covenant that I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,’ declares the Lord.
‘I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts. Jeremiah31:33

This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts Heb8:10

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’b]'>[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
Heb10:16&17

3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3

 

[mmksparbud]

Don't try and twist what I write. Under the new covenant it is not a law written in ink, but one written by the Spirit of the living God on human hearts. That is what the bible says. So to quote the verse you are, in relation to this, is immaterial, for I will repeat, scripture says it is not a law written in ink for the believer. Those who have to read what is written in ink to know what the law is they should follow, obviously do not have new covenant Christianity as they should have it, rather a form of old covenant Christianity


This is the covenant that I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,’ declares the Lord.
‘I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts. Jeremiah31:33

This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds Heb8:10

his is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’b]'>[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
Heb10:16&17

3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3

Yes--well I am not so dogmatic about that as when people first come to Christianity --they haven't yet received the Holy Spirit and are looking for answers to their questions and for truth. They need the word of God, they need to know what it says, they need INK! And some, though they have the spirit--have not been exposed to some things--and when they see it--the Holy Spirit will lead them--if they don't block Him out!

 

[mmksparbud]

Don't try and twist what I write. Under the new covenant it is not a law written in ink, but one written by the Spirit of the living God on human hearts. That is what the bible says. So to quote the verse you are, in relation to this, is immaterial, for I will repeat, scripture says it is not a law written in ink for the believer. Those who have to read what is written in ink to know what the law is they should follow, obviously do not have new covenant Christianity as they should have it, rather a form of the old covenant


This is the covenant that I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,’ declares the Lord.
‘I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts. Jeremiah31:33

This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts Heb8:10

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’b]'>[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
Heb10:16&17

3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3

You know--I get the distinct impression that you have not had much experience with non-Christians-and maybe not even with marginal ones--you know, the ones that claim they are but haven't a clue about anything the bible says and may not even own one. Not every one that claims to be a Christian is a Spirit lead Christian. Sorry---but they do need INK.

 

[Karola]

Yes--well I am not so dogmatic about that as when people first come to Christianity --they haven't yet received the Holy Spirit and are looking for answers to their questions and for truth. They need the word of God, they need to know what it says, they need INK! And some, though they have the spirit--have not been exposed to some things--and when they see it--the Holy Spirit will lead them--if they don't block Him out!

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’b]'>[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
Heb10:16&17


You cannot have a saviour from sin unless the law is within you. And you do not belong to Christ unless the Spirit is in you(Rom8:9)
So every Christian has the Holy Spirit, unless you follow Catholicism, which I believe states you only get the Holy Spirit once you have been baptised in water
Of course you have to try and reason away what scripture plainly states, but for the believer, any believer it is no longer a law written in ink.

 

[Karola]

You know--I get the distinct impression that you have not had much experience with non-Christians-and maybe not even with marginal ones--you know, the ones that claim they are but haven't a clue about anything the bible says and may not even own one. Not every one that claims to be a Christian is a Spirit lead Christian. Sorry---but they do need INK.

Contradict sola scripture if you like

 

[mmksparbud]

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’b]'>[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
Heb10:16&17


You cannot have a saviour from sin unless the law is within you. And you do not belong to Christ unless the Spirit is in you(Rom8:9)
So every Christian has the Holy Spirit, unless you follow Catholicism, which I believe states you only get the Holy Spirit once you have been baptised in water
Of course you have to try and reason away what scripture plainly states, but for the believer, any believer it is no longer a law written in ink.

Yes--And who is it that He makes a covenant with? And when?

 

[Karola]

Yes--And who is it that He makes a covenant with? And when?

What are you trying to say now, only Jews have the law in their hearts?

 

[mmksparbud]

What are you trying to say now, only Jews have the law in their hearts?

Instead of trying to make up something I may or may not be thinking--just answer the question!