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Salvation is a free gift but only to those who want it above all else.

d taylor

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Can you support your claim other than just pronouncing it is so?

So then, is there work to perform?

You are now the one saying that it is not a free gift. Of course, this all dovetails nicely with what I posted.
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Support what claim that belief in Jesus gives Eternal Life.

No work, just believe in Jesus a one time action done by a person.

No i have said in all my post, to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life believe in Jesus.

You are the one who said salvation is free but then went on to write.
We accept it through the willingness to obey and surrender of our wills to Christ.
and
but it requires a sincere desire that leads to a willingness to give up everything God asks of us.


At best you are giving a confusing message, not once did you ever mention belief in Jesus. Basically yours is another gospel a gospel of obedience and surrender and not of belief in Jesus
 
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Mercy Shown

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Support what claim that belief in Jesus gives Eternal Life.
This claim.
The scriptures you posted are not addressing Eternal Life and how to receive life.

No work, just believe in Jesus a one time action done by a person.
But you just called that a work in your last post.
Your messages are back and forth. Believing is a work then no, believing is not a work.
Belief is a work,
 
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d taylor

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This claim.



But you just called that a work in your last post.

Your messages are back and forth. Believing is a work then no, believing is not a work.
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You were the one who posted verses, where there is no mention in the verses you posted, the receiving of Eternal Life.

No i called that a passive work. It is a one time action. The verse i posted Jesus even answers the question ask of Him. What are the works a person needs to do. Jesus replied the work is to believe in Jesus.

The action of belief is not the same as a life time of obedience and surrender. Belief is a one time action, that occurs in the mind/heart.
 
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Dan1988

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You quoted the false Arminian gospel which Jesus never taught. You proclaim and you hold to the false Arminian, works based gospel, while denying the fact that you are an Arminian. Such is the power of demonic deception, and the resulting delusion.

You're still denying the truth of the gospel which teaches that, "there are none who seek after God", and that "all have gone astray", and that "there are none righteous, no not one". You quoted scriptures, about some righteous people who keep the commandments, but you fail to understand that all of those people were born again Christians.

Abraham was a born again Christian, and as such he was quickened back to life by God, while he was dead in his sin. God made him alive, and converted him, and regenerated him, and made him a new creature and everything was made new in him, and He sanctified him, and He was transforming him into the image of His Son.

According to you false gospel, God didn't do any of the above for Abraham. Your false religion teaches that Abraham, made himself alive and got rid of his sin nature and created a new heart for himself to become obedient to God, so he can repent and follow Jesus.
I find it hard to believe that you can trample over so many scriptures which clearly teach that salvation is by grace through faith, and that not of yourself, but it is the gift of God lest anyone should boast.

You're happy to accept that salvation is by Gods grace and your faith, so it's a joint effort between you and God and that gives you plenty to boast about. Well that false gospel is an abomination in Gods sight, it is the greatest insult to God and He will pour out His wrath on those who push this Satanic lie.

As a born again, elect Saint of God, I'm righteous and I keep the commands. But that's only because I'm in hid in Christ, He is the only one who is righteous and He kept all the commandments, so it's not me at all, but it's all Him. I have died to self and I continue to diminish, while Christ continues to increase.

No born again believer has ever been able to keep any of the commandments or obey God at all. No born again believer has ever achieved any righteousness, but it's the Holy Spirt working in and through us that leads us in His righteousness. We still sin every day for the rest of our lives, but our sin is not counted to us, because Jesus has already paid for every one of our past, present and future sins.

There is no good thing in me or any born again believer, we are still in this body of death, which can only offer filthy rags to God.
 
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Soyeong

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You quoted the false Arminian gospel which Jesus never taught. You proclaim and you hold to the false Arminian, works based gospel, while denying the fact that you are an Arminian. Such is the power of demonic deception, and the resulting delusion.
The Gospel of the Kingdom that Christ taught in Matthew 4:15-23 is the true Gospel of Christ, not a false Arminian gospel. The Gospel of the Kingdom in accordance with Christ being sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness, which is the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), which he spread to those in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5).

That is notably is not the Gospel that Christ taught, moreover, it is false that no one is righteous because there are many people who are described as righteous by the Bible and I've said nothing contrary to these people being born again Christians.

I didn't deny the above or teach any of those things or say anything contrary to salvation being by grace through faith, so you're making things and trying to put them in my mouth while trying to claim that I'm the one who is delusional.

I don't say anything about join effort so that we can have something to boast about. You are burning a straw man while refusing to interact with the things that I've said.

In 1 John 3:4-10, everyone who is a doer of righteous works is righteous even as they are righteous and those who are not a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law are not born again. Obedience to God's law has nothing to do with trying to achieve any righteousness, but rather that is a fundamental misunderstanding of why we should obey it.

There is no good thing in me or any born again believer, we are still in this body of death, which can only offer filthy rags to God.
Again, you are blatantly using Isaiah 64:6 out of context and you are ignoring Revelation 19:18.
 
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Dan1988

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Dear, Sir/Madam

You still haven't admitted that you don't contribute anything apart from filthy rags towards your salvation. You keep side stepping around the issue.

Your theology is all messed up and it's incoherent, you talk about keeping the law like a Pharisee. you have this foolish notion, that some people can manufacture their own righteousness. While ignoring what God said, that there are none righteous no not one.

If anyone is righteous in Gods sight, it has nothing to do with their own righteousness. Everything you have was given to you by God, so if you claim to be righteous, then claim that God imputed His righteousness to you, so you will have nothing to boast about.
 
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Soyeong

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Dear, Sir/Madam

You still haven't admitted that you don't contribute anything apart from filthy rags towards your salvation. You keep side stepping around the issue.
Again, the first thing that I said in this thread was that our obedience to God's law has nothing to do with earn our salvation, but you keep trying to argue against my position as though I had said the opposite in lieu of engaging in what I have said. Again, Isaiah 64:6 has nothing to do with the issue of the extent to what we contribute to our salvation, but is people hypocritically complaining about God not coming down and making His presence known.

You excel at being able to speak negatively about my position but are terrible at engaging with my position to explain why you think it is wrong. Again. Psalms 14:1-3 does say that there is no one who is righteous, but that there is no one who is righteous who says that there is no God.

Our obedience to God's law has nothing to do with trying to establish our own righteousness as the result. The only way to become righteous is through faith and what it means for us to become righteous is to become a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law. Likewise, the only way for someone to become courageous is through faith and what it means for someone to become courageous to become a doer of courageous works, and the same is true for every other character trait.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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1 John 3:9 KJV
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The part of you that is born of God is your spirit.
 
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BNR32FAN

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This is a really bad analogy because in both the story of “Santa Clause” and St Nicolas, the gifts weren’t paid for by anyone they are given in charity.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Jesus plainly states that salvation is impossible for man to obtain by choosing to accept the free gift. This must mean that those who are dead in their sin cannot make a choice to believe in Christ to receive salvation.
That’s not even remotely close to what Jesus told them. Jesus had just told a rich man that in order for him to receive eternal life he must sell everything he owned and give it to the poor. He didn’t say anything at all anywhere in the entire chapter about any free gift. You took one statement that He made out of context and made it into something completely different that is not discussed anywhere in the entire chapter.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Why were these people chosen according to His foreknowledge then? What did He foresee that influenced His decision in who He would choose and who He would not choose?
 
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BNR32FAN

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John 15:16
You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.
Lol, what did He just say to these chosen men in the first 7 verses of this chapter?

““I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭1‬-‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Apparently according to what He said to them in the very same discussion that you quoted above, these chosen men were capable of not abiding in Him which would’ve resulted in condemnation. So I’ll ask again, what was it that God foresaw that influenced His decision in who He would choose and who He wouldn’t choose?
 
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BNR32FAN

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Amen, that’s probably why it was named the “Universal” church because it is for everyone.
 
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BNR32FAN

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First of all Titus 2 doesn’t say anything about people being “unable” to believe the gospel, you just pulled that out of thin air. Romans 1:16 says that the gospel is the power of God to salvation to those who believe. The gospel itself has the power to elicit a response in those who hear it if they are willing. Why would God offer such scum salvation you ask? You were no different before you came to Christ just like the rest of us. Every single Christian since Christ began His ministry was a wretched person, and yet God still offered us salvation.
 
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BNR32FAN

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If God loved the wicked, then He Himself would be wicked, but your Arminian religion teaches that He is wicked because He loves wickedness and the depraved child rapists.
Newsflash, every single one of us were wicked before we came to Christ, including you. So why would He save you if you were wicked if He doesn’t save wicked people? If He didn’t save wicked people there wouldn’t be a single person in heaven.
 
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Hoping2

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Thanks be to God for giving us a chance to be unwicked.
By the gifts of repentance from sin and the washing of the blood of Christ, we can leave the wickedness behind !
 
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BNR32FAN

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If that were actually true then you should be able to explain James 5:19-20 but you can’t which is why you repeatedly refused to explain the passage. If people are chosen by God to be saved apart from anything they do and are automatically predestined for salvation then a believer who strays from the truth of the gospel can’t be in danger of the death of his soul. And if this person wasn’t a believer in the first place then turning him BACK can’t possibly save his soul from death either now can it?

“My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬
 
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BNR32FAN

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Thanks be to God for giving us a chance to be unwicked.
By the gifts of repentance from sin and the washing of the blood of Christ, we can leave the wickedness behind !
BIG AMEN to that my friend.
 
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Dan1988

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I'm still trying to understand your theology, you say "the only way to become righteous is through faith". So you're saying we can become righteous by works, since "faith" is a work, according to your theology.

You say, "to become righteous is to become a doer of righteous works in obedience to Gods law".

I don't know of any scriptures which could be used to support this unbiblical view, but I know of many that refute this view and teach the opposite that nobody can become a doer of righteous work in obedience to Gods law. The only law we can obey is the law of sin, which dwells in us.


Romans 7:15-20​

15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.​

16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.​

17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.​

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.​

19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.​

20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.​


As you can clearly see, a Saint of God cannot do the good that he would do because he practices the evil which he doesn't want to practice, because we are all still in the body of death which is corrupt and wants to do evil all the time.

You can't change who you are and force yourself to obey God's law, if you could then Jesus wouldn't have needed to suffer and die for your sin.

Your theology is the same as the religious Phrases, who believed they were going to be saved by their works. They hated Jesus, because He proclaimed that we are saved by grace, through the gift of faith. So there was nothing for them to boast about, just as there is nothing for you to boast about if you are saved.
 
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Dan1988

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As usual, you have twisted everything back to front. The awful truth is, nobody has ever come to Christ. You just made that lie up.
Everyone knows that everyone is born wicked and they remain dead in their sin forever, unless God quickens them to life and changes who they are.
Nobody would be saved, if God didn't chose to save a remanent for His glory. You don't get to con God into electing you for salvation. He won't be fooled by your deceptive scam, He can see directly into your soul. So the only person you're fooling is yourself.
 
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