Salvation is a free gift but only to those who want it above all else.

[Dan1988]

Salvation is a free gift, yet it’s often treated as if it could be earned. You can acquire this precious gift in this divine marketplace without spending anything. Everyone can access the blessings of heaven, as the door to truth is open to all. There’s no barrier to entering this door; the Savior and the voice within invite us to come. Christ urges us to seek His refined gold, making us truly rich.

The gospel is a blessing available to everyone, regardless of wealth. Even the poorest can obtain salvation, as it can’t be bought with money. We accept it through the willingness to obey and surrender of our wills to Christ. High education doesn’t bring one closer to God by itself. The Pharisees, despite their advantages, were spiritually blind and poor.

Salvation can't be earned, but it requires a sincere desire that leads to a willingness to give up everything God asks of us. God will not complete the good work in us against our will. God wants your willing obedience, shows us our deficits, and empowers us to turn away from our sins to him as long as we submit to him.

Salvation is a free gift for believers, but it cost God everything He has to provide it.
This precious gift is not acquired by anyone, the only people who receive this free gift are those who the Father gives it to. Nobody can force God's hand to give this gift to them by anything they do.

God chose those who would receive this gift before He created the world. He wrote the names of every individual who will receive this gift, those who's names are not in His book will never receive the free gift of salvation.
A child would understand this bible doctrine, as his name being on Santa Claus' list of those he will deliver the gifts to on Christmas eve.

Santa doesn't give gifts to all children without exception, he only delivers to those children of whom the parents have paid the money for the gifts in advance. The children who's parents didn't purchase the gifts in advance will get nothing from Santa. So those who's names are not written in Gods book won't receive the free gift of salvation.

Matt 19:
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Jesus plainly states that salvation is impossible for man to obtain by choosing to accept the free gift. This must mean that those who are dead in their sin cannot make a choice to believe in Christ to receive salvation.

John 15:16
You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Nobody likes the awful truth, but we have to accept it whether we like it or not.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Salvation is a free gift for believers, but it cost God everything He has to provide it.
This precious gift is not acquired by anyone, the only people who receive this free gift are those who the Father gives it to. Nobody can force God's hand to give this gift to them by anything they do.

That is why God offers it to all. Titus 2:11 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men," Isaiah records God as saying, "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other."(Is 45:22) The author of Hebrews said it was for everyone. "

Hebrews 2:9
But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

So as you can see, Grace is given to all who will receive it. It won't be given to those who do not want it, for that would be forcing them, and then it would no longer be a gift.

God chose those who would receive this gift before He created the world. He wrote the names of every individual who will receive this gift, those who's names are not in His book will never receive the free gift of salvation.
A child would understand this bible doctrine, as his name being on Santa Claus' list of those he will deliver the gifts to on Christmas eve.

God gave the gift to the world, for He loved the world. (See John 3:16.) He died for the whole world. (see 1 John 2:2) But a gift ceases to be a gift if it is not accepted, for a gift must be given and received. It is available to all, but not everyone avails themselves of it.

Santa doesn't give gifts to all children without exception, he only delivers to those children of whom the parents have paid the money for the gifts in advance. The children who's parents didn't purchase the gifts in advance will get nothing from Santa. So those who's names are not written in Gods book won't receive the free gift of salvation.

They could have taken it from God's hand by faith, but they would not. John Calvin had a mean god; thus, he became mean to those who opposed his theology. The damnation of any man comes at their own hands; by their own choice, don't lay that on God who emptied heaven to save them.

Matt 19:
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Jesus plainly states that salvation is impossible for man to obtain by choosing to accept the free gift. This must mean that those who are dead in their sin cannot make a choice to believe in Christ to receive salvation.

You took those scriptures completely out of their context. This conversation was about rich people having a difficult time with salvation. It was not a general teaching about salvation.

16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

John 15:16
You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

This was said to His disciples. And He did choose them, yet one was a devil.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is true. God knows who will respond and choose Him. His grace calls them. That same call goes out to the whole world, but the proud have no ears to hear it because they will not humble themselves in the sight of God. All men can access the call, but too many refuse to listen.

God knew who would hear it; in that sense, it was a call to them: His Sheep. But the offer is still there for all men. The seed is still cast on the hardened path.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Nobody likes the awful truth, but we have to accept it whether we like it or not.

Because John Calvin misunderstood and misapplied selected texts from the bible does not mean that we should.

 

[Dan1988]

That is why God offers it to all. Titus 2:11 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men," Isaiah records God as saying, "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other."(Is 45:22) The author of Hebrews said it was for everyone. "

Hebrews 2:9
But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

So as you can see, Grace is given to all who will receive it. It won't be given to those who do not want it, for that would be forcing them, and then it would no longer be a gift.




God gave the gift to the world, for He loved the world. (See John 3:16.) He died for the whole world. (see 1 John 2:2) But a gift ceases to be a gift if it is not accepted, for a gift must be given and received. It is available to all, but not everyone avails themselves of it.

They could have taken it from God's hand by faith, but they would not. John Calvin had a mean god; thus, he became mean to those who opposed his theology. The damnation of any man comes at their own hands; by their own choice, don't lay that on God who emptied heaven to save them.

You took those scriptures completely out of their context. This conversation was about rich people having a difficult time with salvation. It was not a general teaching about salvation.

16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

This was said to His disciples. And He did choose them, yet one was a devil.

This is true. God knows who will respond and choose Him. His grace calls them. That same call goes out to the whole world, but the proud have no ears to hear it because they will not humble themselves in the sight of God. All men can access the call, but too many refuse to listen.

God knew who would hear it; in that sense, it was a call to them: His Sheep. But the offer is still there for all men. The seed is still cast on the hardened path.

Because John Calvin misunderstood and misapplied selected texts from the bible does not mean that we should.

You will never understand the gospel message, while you look at everything through the distorted Arminius lens. You are so deceived by the false Arminian gospel, that you can't even receive correction. A wise man loves correction, but a fool hates you for it.

I have to go over everything you say and put a big red cross over it, like a teacher does with a bad student. It's very frustrating, because you have not got a single verse of scripture right so far, this makes me wonder if it's even possible to reason with you.

You falsely claim that God offer salvation to all men, and you use Titus 2:11 which actually condemns all unbelievers to hell. It's saying everyone has heard the gospel, but most are unable to embrace it because they hate gospel massage and they hate God, because they love sin and they serve Satan instead of God. So why would God offer such scum the gift of salvation, when He has already condemned them and He already hates them and He will never forgive them for any of their sins.

Who was the author of Hebrews 2:9 speaking to, when he said "He tasted death for everyone". Are you suggesting that Jesus went to the cross for those He knew would never repent and they would keep on hating Him for all eternity. He would be a fool if He did such a stupid thing.
If God loved the wicked, then He Himself would be wicked, but your Arminian religion teaches that He is wicked because He loves wickedness and the depraved child rapists.

What authority (beside your self appointed authority) do you have to determine that I took all of those verses out of their intended context. You can't defend a single claim you have ever made, and none of your interpretations of those verses can be supported by other verses.
You have appointed yourself as he final authority, while trampling over 2000 years of Church history.

Your Arminian gospel makes no sense, you say God offered salvation to His sheep because they hear it and He knows they will chose to believe, but He also offers the gift to those who don't hear it and whom He knows will not accept the free gift. You make God look foolish, in offering the free gift of salvation to those whom He already knows will reject it for sure.
Your gospel makes God look silly, so I reject it and I would suggest you repent of such a blasphemous accusation.

 

[Mercy Shown]

You will never understand the gospel message, while you look at everything through the distorted Arminius lens. You are so deceived by the false Arminian gospel, that you can't even receive correction. A wise man loves correction, but a fool hates you for it.

This is not an argument. This is just an emotional screed based on a solid biblical refutation of certian erroneous doctrines you hold. Arminianism also held erroneous doctrines but I do not subscribe to those either.

Jesus death on the cross restored mankind’s free-will choice rather than just being a part of a charade by God in a scripted “salvation” for a few companion bots He chose to be with Him against their native wills by changing those wills without their consent.

I have to go over everything you say and put a big red cross over it, like a teacher does with a bad student. It's very frustrating, because you have not got a single verse of scripture right so far, this makes me wonder if it's even possible to reason with you.

You have failed to make a case for a scripted salvation at every turn. Simply putting a big red X on the truth supported by scripture does not alter the truth.

You falsely claim that God offer salvation to all men, and you use Titus 2:11 which actually condemns all unbelievers to hell. It's saying everyone has heard the gospel, but most are unable to embrace it because they hate gospel massage and they hate God, because they love sin and they serve Satan instead of God. So why would God offer such scum the gift of salvation, when He has already condemned them and He already hates them and He will never forgive them for any of their sins.

None of what you say here refutes the fact that this text says it is offered to all people. The fact that some chose to disbelieve and therefore won’t accept it does not change the meaning of the text. Since God wishes all people would be saved(1 Tim 2:4) it stands to reason that Titus 2:11 means what it says.

If it were not a choice but hard-wired in by God’s predestination why would Hebrews 3:12 warn us against choosing unbelief and thus falling away. Your radicle theology has to either skip large portions of scripture or claim that it doesn’t really say what it does.

The natural man has no choice to even know God but once God quickens the him, he does and can chose to submit or resist.

Who was the author of Hebrews 2:9 speaking to, when he said "He tasted death for everyone". Are you suggesting that Jesus went to the cross for those He knew would never repent and they would keep on hating Him for all eternity. He would be a fool if He did such a stupid thing.

You are setting conditions on the Lord and judging him based on your prejudice. You reject plain scripture because it does not comport with your theology.

Here is a small sample.

1 John 2:2​

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Peter 3:18​

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

Hebrews 10:10​

And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Romans 6:10​

For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God

John 1:29 states, “The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!”

Yet you would tell us that he did take away the sins of the world?

If God loved the wicked, then He Himself would be wicked, but your Arminian religion teaches that He is wicked because He loves wickedness and the depraved child rapists.

You mean the wicked depraved child rapist whom he predestined to be that way and rape that child? You mean that He made that person just to hate him?

He loved us when we were sinners so by your logic that must make Him wicked and by your logic no wicked rapist could ever repent and be saved. Well then neither could we. If God does not love the sinner, then we are all damned.

What authority (beside your self appointed authority) do you have to determine that I took all of those verses out of their intended context.

By the the context they were taken out of which I posted for you.

You can't defend a single claim you have ever made, and none of your interpretations of those verses can be supported by other verses.

That is simply false. I have supported every point with multiple texts and the record is there for all to read. You can’t support this charge with a single example from my posts.

You have appointed yourself as he final authority, while trampling over 2000 years of Church history.

This controversy has dogged the church through out all of its history. What I present from the Bible is what much of the church has embraced from the beginning.

Your Arminian gospel makes no sense, you say God offered salvation to His sheep because they hear it and He knows they will chose to believe, but He also offers the gift to those who don't hear it and whom He knows will not accept the free gift. You make God look foolish, in offering the free gift of salvation to those whom He already knows will reject it for sure.

No, it makes God love. Was Christ a fool for weeping over Jerusalem. Is God a fool for desiring that all men be saved and delaying His coming for that very reason?

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

Your gospel makes God look silly, so I reject it and I would suggest you repent of such a blasphemous accusation.

It makes God’s love so radicle to ours that without the Holy Spirit we cannot comprehend it nor recieve it.

We then become like Jonah sitting in a hill under our sad little shelters waiting to watch God blast the wicked to hell.

 

[Dan1988]

This is not an argument. This is just an emotional screed based on a solid biblical refutation of certian erroneous doctrines you hold. Arminianism also held erroneous doctrines but I do not subscribe to those either.

Jesus death on the cross restored mankind’s free-will choice rather than just being a part of a charade by God in a scripted “salvation” for a few companion bots He chose to be with Him against their native wills by changing those wills without their consent.


You have failed to make a case for a scripted salvation at every turn. Simply putting a big red X on the truth supported by scripture does not alter the truth.

None of what you say here refutes the fact that this text says it is offered to all people. The fact that some chose to disbelieve and therefore won’t accept it does not change the meaning of the text. Since God wishes all people would be saved(1 Tim 2:4) it stands to reason that Titus 2:11 means what it says.

If it were not a choice but hard-wired in by God’s predestination why would Hebrews 3:12 warn us against choosing unbelief and thus falling away. Your radicle theology has to either skip large portions of scripture or claim that it doesn’t really say what it does.

The natural man has no choice to even know God but once God quickens the him, he does and can chose to submit or resist.


You are setting conditions on the Lord and judging him based on your prejudice. You reject plain scripture because it does not comport with your theology.

Here is a small sample.

1 John 2:2​

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Peter 3:18​

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

Hebrews 10:10​

And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Romans 6:10​

For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God

John 1:29 states, “The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!”

Yet you would tell us that he did take away the sins of the world?



You mean the wicked depraved child rapist whom he predestined to be that way and rape that child? You mean that He made that person just to hate him?

He loved us when we were sinners so by your logic that must make Him wicked and by your logic no wicked rapist could ever repent and be saved. Well then neither could we. If God does not love the sinner, then we are all damned.

By the the context they were taken out of which I posted for you.

That is simply false. I have supported every point with multiple texts and the record is there for all to read. You can’t support this charge with a single example from my posts.

This controversy has dogged the church through out all of its history. What I present from the Bible is what much of the church has embraced from the beginning.

No, it makes God love. Was Christ a fool for weeping over Jerusalem. Is God a fool for desiring that all men be saved and delaying His coming for that very reason?

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

It makes God’s love so radicle to ours that without the Holy Spirit we cannot comprehend it nor recieve it.

We then become like Jonah sitting in a hill under our sad little shelters waiting to watch God blast the wicked to hell.

I see you're in denial of what you are, but it's bleeding obvious to me that you're a die hard Arminian. Every Christian belongs in one of the two camps, since there is no third camp. So you don't even know who you are or what you believe, as is obvious because your theology is is confused and incoherent and it makes no sense t all.

Why don't you enlighten us and tell us what this mysterious third option is, let me guess, you can't because there is no such thing. I know you going to claim ignorance and say you're just sitting on the fence but that is not an actually a valid position, it simply exposes your ignorance and false doctrine.

Your foolish unbiblical comment "Jesus death on the cross restored mankind’s free-will choice" is pure blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, it's also a straight out lie. You know the bible never makes any such foolish claim, so the only one you're fooling with that lie is yourself. You can't support that lie with any scripture.

I have no choice other than to bring out my big red marker and put a big red cross through every single one of your comments and opinions.
You falsely claim that salvations is offered to everyone, but there are no supporting scriptures for this lie. The bible never said any such foolish thing.

Hebrews 3:12 never warned you to chose unbelief, you just made that lie up. You are not a Hebrew, so Paul's letter was not addressed to you, so stop pretending that he wrote it to you. See, this is where you get everything messed, you don't know who the scriptures are speaking about so you just pretend they're talking about you. Well I've got news for you and it's all bad.

You don't even know that "natural man" means in the bible. You don't even know the simple fact that everyone is born a natural man, and everyone remains a natural man, unless they are born again. Quickened to life means to be born again, so according to your logic. A born again person is born again so they can chose to be born again. Your theology is absolutely dismal.

I don't agree with your private opinion of what any of those verses are saying, because you view all of them through your distorted false Arminian lens, which forces the scriptures to contradict each other and it makes God a liar.

John 1:29 doesn't say that "He takes away the sins of the whole world". you just made that up, because you didn't bother to consider the context as usual so you get another big red cross. I don't have time to educate you on the meaning of every verse as it would take three months, so I recommend you join a beginners bible class to learn the basics.

God never predestinated anyone to be a child raping murderer, you just made that up because you can't stand the God of the bible. You say "He loved us while we were sinners", but you haven't identified who it's talking about. Who are the "us", see your clueless about who it's talking about so you include child raping murderers with the Saints of God and that it extremely blasphemous against the Holy Spirit and it makes God look evil.

How does 2 Peter 3:9 apply to the reprobate child raping murderers, according to you God is going to wait for them to repent before He brings about Judgement Day. This is pure insanity, when you accept the false Arminian gospel, then you must twist every scripture and force it into your doctrine. You remind me of an alcoholic or drug addict, who is in denial of his addiction.

 

[Mercy Shown]

I see you're in denial of what you are, but it's bleeding obvious to me that you're a die hard Arminian. Every Christian belongs in one of the two camps, since there is no third camp. So you don't even know who you are or what you believe, as is obvious because your theology is is confused and incoherent and it makes no sense t all.

How could I be and still believe that the Bible teaches total depravity? How could I if I believe that Salvation is totally of the Lord?

1 Cor 1:18
For the word of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us who are saved it is the power of God.

Why don't you enlighten us and tell us what this mysterious third option is, let me guess, you can't because there is no such thing. I know you going to claim ignorance and say you're just sitting on the fence but that is not an actually a valid position, it simply exposes your ignorance and false doctrine.

The third way is Christ and Him crucified.

Your foolish unbiblical comment "Jesus death on the cross restored mankind’s free-will choice" is pure blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, it's also a straight out lie. You know the bible never makes any such foolish claim, so the only one you're fooling with that lie is yourself. You can't support that lie with any scripture.

How can one have a choice if they are dead? Christ's death paid for our sins, and God made us alive in Christ. Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Eph 2:5 further explains, [He] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. Once we are alive, we can choose. 1 Peter 20-22 says it this way, "For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Notice that they turned back; they made a choice, albeit a poor one. You are exercising your free will to have this conversation with me, but you would not be having such a conversation if Christ had not raised you from spiritual death. It would have been impossible for you to even choose to.

I have no choice other than to bring out my big red marker and put a big red cross through every single one of your comments and opinions.
You falsely claim that salvations is offered to everyone, but there are no supporting scriptures for this lie. The bible never said any such foolish thing.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life."

"Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." 2 Cor 5:20

God makes His appeal through us to the world. That is what the great commission is all about.


Your marker has no power over the truth.

Hebrews 3:12 never warned you to chose unbelief, you just made that lie up. You are not a Hebrew, so Paul's letter was not addressed to you, so stop pretending that he wrote it to you. See, this is where you get everything messed, you don't know who the scriptures are speaking about so you just pretend they're talking about you. Well I've got news for you and it's all bad.

2Tim. 3 Verses 16 to 17[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

You don't even know that "natural man" means in the bible. You don't even know the simple fact that everyone is born a natural man, and everyone remains a natural man, unless they are born again. Quickened to life means to be born again, so according to your logic. A born again person is born again so they can chose to be born again. Your theology is absolutely dismal.

What made you fume about this? I have always believed this, for the bible says so.

I don't agree with your private opinion of what any of those verses are saying, because you view all of them through your distorted false Arminian lens, which forces the scriptures to contradict each other and it makes God a liar.

They are there in black and white. I do not need to offer and opinion. They say it plainly.

John 1:29 doesn't say that "He takes away the sins of the whole world". you just made that up, because you didn't bother to consider the context as usual so you get another big red cross. I don't have time to educate you on the meaning of every verse as it would take three months, so I recommend you join a beginners bible class to learn the basics.

John 1:29​

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

God never predestinated anyone to be a child raping murderer, you just made that up because you can't stand the God of the bible. You say "He loved us while we were sinners", but you haven't identified who it's talking about. Who are the "us", see your clueless about who it's talking about so you include child raping murderers with the Saints of God and that it extremely blasphemous against the Holy Spirit and it makes God look evil.

Again, I would point out that the Bible says all scripture is profitable. Do not shoehorn your own meanings into places where they don't fit.

How does 2 Peter 3:9 apply to the reprobate child raping murderers, according to you God is going to wait for them to repent before He brings about Judgement Day. This is pure insanity, when you accept the false Arminian gospel, then you must twist every scripture and force it into your doctrine. You remind me of an alcoholic or drug addict, who is in denial of his addiction.

You are arguing with scripture.

 

[maxamir]

Salvation is a free gift, yet it’s often treated as if it could be earned. You can acquire this precious gift in this divine marketplace without spending anything. Everyone can access the blessings of heaven, as the door to truth is open to all. There’s no barrier to entering this door; the Savior and the voice within invite us to come. Christ urges us to seek His refined gold, making us truly rich.

The gospel is a blessing available to everyone, regardless of wealth. Even the poorest can obtain salvation, as it can’t be bought with money. We accept it through the willingness to obey and surrender of our wills to Christ. High education doesn’t bring one closer to God by itself. The Pharisees, despite their advantages, were spiritually blind and poor.

Salvation can't be earned, but it requires a sincere desire that leads to a willingness to give up everything God asks of us. God will not complete the good work in us against our will. God wants your willing obedience, shows us our deficits, and empowers us to turn away from our sins to him as long as we submit to him.

the typical rantings of a synergist who somehow thinks that man who is spiritually dead can somehow choose God to be saved, which is a denial of the doctrine of original sin and man's true condition before God.

The Gospel is indeed to be proclaimed to all indiscriminately but to say it is a blessing to all is foolishness for Scripture declares that it is an aroma of life unto life to some but to others it is an aroma of death unto death (2 Cor 2:14-16), meaning that those who hear the Gospel are more accountable than those who have never heard it and are worse off if they die in their sin. Christ said the same about the towns He visited who saw His miracles and heard His message and were told it would be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah than them because of their hardness of heart in not repenting.

The only way that man achieves a sincere desire that leads to a willingness to give up everything God asks is to first be born again by the Holy Spirit, made a new creature in Christ with a new heart that gladly submits to Him unto death out of gratitude and thankfulness rather than merit, which is what those who proclaim that man can do anything to save himself ultimately believe and deny that it is Christ who is the Author and Finisher of their faith an not themselves.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Salvation is a free gift, yet it’s often treated as if it could be earned. You can acquire this precious gift in this divine marketplace without spending anything. Everyone can access the blessings of heaven, as the door to truth is open to all. There’s no barrier to entering this door; the Savior and the voice within invite us to come. Christ urges us to seek His refined gold, making us truly rich.

The gospel is a blessing available to everyone, regardless of wealth. Even the poorest can obtain salvation, as it can’t be bought with money. We accept it through the willingness to obey and surrender of our wills to Christ. High education doesn’t bring one closer to God by itself. The Pharisees, despite their advantages, were spiritually blind and poor.

Salvation can't be earned, but it requires a sincere desire that leads to a willingness to give up everything God asks of us. God will not complete the good work in us against our will. God wants your willing obedience, shows us our deficits, and empowers us to turn away from our sins to him as long as we submit to him.

This one is tough for me, saint.
If we start getting into subjective things like commitment and such, it just seems to create a possibility for doubt. I suspect the devil would sidle up next to such a convert and immediately suggest, "Are you really serious enough? How much commitment do you have? Are you really sincere?" This would leave the convert attempting to base his salvation not on the word but on the vagaries of personal devotion.
I find many such gospel structures problematic, especially when it comes to a temptation encounter with Satan. I am first reminded of Jesus coming up from the water at John's baptism. A voice from heaven announced:

Mark 1:11 KJV
11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Jesus was led into the wilderness to be tempted. What did Satan tempt Him with? Satan tried to get Jesus to doubt what the voice said and, ultimately, who the voice said He was:
"
Luke 4:3 KJV
3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.


Jesus answered with, "It is written..."

What is written is powerful and defeats the devil and doubt.
If the devil can get us off the Word and into the subjective content like commitment, devotion, and sincerity, then he will have us.
What would we say to the devil when he says, "Are you really sincere?" How do we know? How could we prove it, and would that proof overcome doubt? The mere suggestion that our commitment is lacking is enough to introduce doubt, and doubt is enough to cast down your faith.

The answer, of course, is to use the Word instead of the fragile estimates of our personal commitment and resolve. Do what Jesus did. "It is written."

Other such evangelistic methods things like:
"Have you turned your life over to Jesus?"
"Have you made Jesus Lord of your life?"
"Have you asked Jesus into your heart?"
"Have you made Jesus your personal savior?"
Don't get me wrong; these are all intended to make the gospel relatable and easy to consume, but they all lack direct scriptural content. The speakers are well-meaning. But to defeat doubt and the devil, we need "it is written."
Instead, use direct quotes from the scripture. One of my favorites is 1 Corin 15:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

This is solid. No suggestions of anything beyond you simply knowing the word and keeping it in your memory. You are saved by hearing these words, which inculcate faith and result in your being saved.

Romans 10:17 GW
17 So faith comes from hearing the message, and the message that is heard is what Christ spoke.



When satan attacks and tempts, all you need to do is hit him with the Word:
"It is written: Jesus died for my sins according to the scripture; he was buried and rose from the dead." This does not introduce your own efforts or work, vacillating commitment, or questionable sincerity. The gospel and faith in the gospel (which is little more than knowledge of the word of Christ) is all Him and what He did. You are merely the fortunate recipient of His free gift. Your sincerity level is irrelevant when you are receiving a free gift. Who cares how sincere you are? Just take it! You are invoking the Word and standing on it alone—nothing there for the devil to attack. He is not going to take on the Lord at the right hand of the Father.

 

[Mercy Shown]

the typical rantings of a synergist who somehow thinks that man who is spiritually dead can somehow choose God to be saved, which is a denial of the doctrine of original sin and man's true condition before God.

What do you have that you have not been given? Does not the magnificent gift of God fill you with awe, reverence and thanksgiving? How can we look Christ in the face while we are. Tearing down others?

The Gospel is indeed to be proclaimed to all indiscriminately but to say it is a blessing to all is foolishness for Scripture declares that it is an aroma of life unto life to some but to others it is an aroma of death unto death (2 Cor 2:14-16), meaning that those who hear the Gospel are more accountable than those who have never heard it and are worse off if they die in their sin. Christ said the same about the towns He visited who saw His miracles and heard His message and were told it would be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah than them because of their hardness of heart in not repenting.

You misread the OP and misquoted it. It does not say that it is a blessing to everyone. Still, what you posted is true if one claimed that it was a blessing to everyone.

The only way that man achieves a sincere desire that leads to a willingness to give up everything God asks is to first be born again by the Holy Spirit, made a new creature in Christ with a new heart that gladly submits to Him unto death out of gratitude and thankfulness rather than merit, which is what those who proclaim that man can do anything to save himself ultimately believe and deny that it is Christ who is the Author and Finisher of their faith an not themselves.

Again, the OP never claimed anything to the contrary. All men must be quickened by the Holy Spirit in order to choose between submitting to God or resisting Him. But suffice it to say, God grants it to all men by the enlightenment of the light which lights all men.

 

[Mercy Shown]

This one is tough for me, saint.
If we start getting into subjective things like commitment and such, it just seems to create a possibility for doubt. I suspect the devil would sidle up next to such a convert and immediately suggest, "Are you really serious enough? How much commitment do you have? Are you really sincere?" This would leave the convert attempting to base his salvation not on the word but on the vagaries of personal devotion.

I think you are conflating commitment with willingness. The OP does not mention commitment. I must be willing to allow God in before He will come in. Jesus knocks at the door, he does not barge in.

I find many such gospel structures problematic, especially when it comes to a temptation encounter with Satan. I am first reminded of Jesus coming up from the water at John's baptism. A voice from heaven announced:

Mark 1:11 KJV
11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Jesus was led into the wilderness to be tempted. What did Satan tempt Him with? Satan tried to get Jesus to doubt what the voice said and, ultimately, who the voice said He was:
"
Luke 4:3 KJV
3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.


Jesus answered with, "It is written..."

What is written is powerful and defeats the devil and doubt.
If the devil can get us off the Word and into the subjective content like commitment, devotion, and sincerity, then he will have us.
What would we say to the devil when he says, "Are you really sincere?" How do we know? How could we prove it, and would that proof overcome doubt? The mere suggestion that our commitment is lacking is enough to introduce doubt, and doubt is enough to cast down your faith.

The OP was not about commitment. I am not sure where you got that from. Jesus said, if you want to follow me, daily pick up your cross. What do you imagine that means?

The answer, of course, is to use the Word instead of the fragile estimates of our personal commitment and resolve. Do what Jesus did. "It is written."

Other such evangelistic methods things like:
"Have you turned your life over to Jesus?"
"Have you made Jesus Lord of your life?"
"Have you asked Jesus into your heart?"
"Have you made Jesus your personal savior?"
Don't get me wrong; these are all intended to make the gospel relatable and easy to consume, but they all lack direct scriptural content. The speakers are well-meaning. But to defeat doubt and the devil, we need "it is written."
Instead, use direct quotes from the scripture. One of my favorites is 1 Corin 15:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

This is solid. No suggestions of anything beyond you simply knowing the word and keeping it in your memory. You are saved by hearing these words, which inculcate faith and result in your being saved.

Romans 10:17 GW
17 So faith comes from hearing the message, and the message that is heard is what Christ spoke.



When satan attacks and tempts, all you need to do is hit him with the Word:
"It is written: Jesus died for my sins according to the scripture; he was buried and rose from the dead." This does not introduce your own efforts or work, vacillating commitment, or questionable sincerity. The gospel and faith in the gospel (which is little more than knowledge of the word of Christ) is all Him and what He did. You are merely the fortunate recipient of His free gift. Your sincerity level is irrelevant when you are receiving a free gift. Who cares how sincere you are? Just take it! You are invoking the Word and standing on it alone—nothing there for the devil to attack. He is not going to take on the Lord at the right hand of the Father.

I think you misunderstood the OP. However, you bring up some good points in general.

 

[Paleouss]

Because John Calvin misunderstood and misapplied selected texts from the bible does not mean that we should.

Hi Mercy Shown. I hope you are having a great, blessed week.

Reading this thread I came across your comment about John Calvin and wonder if you have ever read John Calvin or if the conclusions you draw are from those that call themselves Calvinist today? Of course many Calvinist would disagree with me, but the two are not necessarily the same thing. IMO.

Here is what I wanted to point out, the quote of yours I highlighted, above, was in the response to Eph 2:8-10. Here is what John Calvin wrote about Eph 2:8-10, below.

For by grace are ye saved. This is an inference from the former statements. Having treated of election and of effectual calling, he arrives at this general conclusion, that they had obtained salvation by faith alone. First, he asserts, that the salvation of the Ephesians was entirely the work, the gracious work of God. But then they had obtained this grace by faith. On one side, we must look at God; and, on the other, at man. God declares, that he owes us nothing; so that salvation is not a reward or recompense, but unmixed grace. The next question is, in what way do men receive that salvation which is offered to them by the hand of God? The answer is, by faith; and hence he concludes that nothing connected with it is our own. If, on the part of God, it is grace alone, and if we bring nothing but faith, which strips us of all commendation, it follows that salvation does not come from us.

Ought we not then to be silent about free-will, and good intentions, and fancied preparations, and merits, and satisfactions? There is none of these which does not claim a share of praise in the salvation of men; so that the praise of grace would not, as Paul shews, remain undiminished. When, on the part of man, the act of receiving salvation is made to consist in faith alone, all other means, on which men are accustomed to rely, are discarded. Faith, then, brings a man empty to God, that he may be filled with the blessings of Christ. And so he adds, not of yourselves; that claiming nothing for themselves, they may acknowledge God alone as the author of their salvation. – John Calvin

My point, which has little to do with your conversations with others, is that Calvin appears to clearly recognize there is God's part and man's part. For he says, "On one side, we must look at God: and, on the other, at man." Calvin says that "if we bring nothing but faith", we are stripped of all commendation, that is, faith brings "man empty to God".

What I notice is that Calvin does not shy away from using God's part and man's part together. It would seem to me that some hard Calvinist have a hard time acknowledging faith as man's part. Maybe because, to protect God's sovereignty, they conclude that any part by man would be considered works or boasting. But it appears to me that Calvin doesn't think this way. He clearly articulates that it is by Grace alone through faith alone. And man has a part to play, but that part in no way suggests he can boast because faith alone brings a man "empty" to God. Faith is the bringing of one's self empty of boasting before God.

We need not fear we are giving too much credit to man when we say he has a contingent part called faith. For faith brings a man empty to God, according to Calvin. Empty of what? Boasting. Therefore, even though man is to have faith, that in no way means he has something to boast about.

Hope this sparks some new thought about John Calvin.

Peace be with you my brother

 

[Mercy Shown]

Hi Mercy Shown. I hope you are having a great, blessed week.

Reading this thread I came across your comment about John Calvin and wonder if you have ever read John Calvin or if the conclusions you draw are from those that call themselves Calvinist today? Of course many Calvinist would disagree with me, but the two are not necessarily the same thing. IMO.

Here is what I wanted to point out, the quote of yours I highlighted, above, was in the response to Eph 2:8-10. Here is what John Calvin wrote about Eph 2:8-10, below.



My point, which has little to do with your conversations with others, is that Calvin appears to clearly recognize there is God's part and man's part. For he says, "On one side, we must look at God: and, on the other, at man." Calvin says that "if we bring nothing but faith", we are stripped of all commendation, that is, faith brings "man empty to God".

What I notice is that Calvin does not shy away from using God's part and man's part together. It would seem to me that some hard Calvinist have a hard time acknowledging faith as man's part. Maybe because, to protect God's sovereignty, they conclude that any part by man would be considered works or boasting. But it appears to me that Calvin doesn't think this way. He clearly articulates that it is by Grace alone through faith alone. And man has a part to play, but that part in no way suggests he can boast because faith alone brings a man "empty" to God. Faith is the bringing of one's self empty of boasting before God.

We need not fear we are giving too much credit to man when we say he has a contingent part called faith. For faith brings a man empty to God, according to Calvin. Empty of what? Boasting. Therefore, even though man is to have faith, that in no way means he has something to boast about.

Hope this sparks some new thought about John Calvin.

Peace be with you my brother

There is a lot that Calvin wrote and he evolved as all of us do in our thinking and understanding. My reaction to Calvin is centered around his focus on force or manipulation by God to make a select few saints. Calvin wrote, That the Holy Spirit works in the elect by irresistible grace, so that they must be converted and be saved; while the grace necessary and sufficient for conversion, faith, and salvation is withheld from the rest, although they are externally called and invited by the revealed will of God.

This paints God as somewhat unhinged. He calls men but withholds the means by which they could respond to His call and then casts them into Hell for their lack of response?

 

[maxamir]

What do you have that you have not been given? Does not the magnificent gift of God fill you with awe, reverence and thanksgiving? How can we look Christ in the face while we are. Tearing down others?

You misread the OP and misquoted it. It does not say that it is a blessing to everyone. Still, what you posted is true if one claimed that it was a blessing to everyone.

Again, the OP never claimed anything to the contrary. All men must be quickened by the Holy Spirit in order to choose between submitting to God or resisting Him. But suffice it to say, God grants it to all men by the enlightenment of the light which lights all men.

Christians are called to expose the darkness by being lights to the truth and there is no greater darkness than that which perverts the Gospel and robs God of the glory of His salvation and seeks to give it to the choice of evil men. Those who promote the idea that man can do anything to save himself, destroy the very concept of grace. Repentance and faith are conditions of salvation for without them God has decreed that none will be saved but they are not conditions unto salvation for they are both granted by grace and thus fruits of salvation.

The Gospel is not an offer but a proclamation of who God is and what He has done to save His people from their sin in Christ. The only invitation given in Scripture is to the humble, broken hearted and contrite who know they deserve Hell and not the proud whom God resists and therefore it is only a blessing available to those who are placed on the narrow road whom Christ said was few.

The light of general revelation witnessed in nature and natural law seen in the conscience of all men only serves to make men more accountable before God and it is only by special revelation found in Christ that any are regenerated unto eternal life.

God can not help but be good in all of who He is and does and His good providence to all is not to be seen as confirming a love of God to all as many assume, for vexed Asaph found out very plainly in Psalm 73 that the supposed blessings given to the wicked only served to set them in slippery places (v18), to fill up the measure of their sin (1 Th 2:16), store wrath for the day of wrath (Rom 2:5) and fatten them up unto God's just slaughter (Jas 5:5, Jer 12:3) which is not the God that most who claim to be Christians today know and therefore they do not yet realise what they have been saved from or truly appreciate the magnificent gift of God which fills His people with awe, reverence and thanksgiving.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Christians are called to expose the darkness by being lights to the truth and there is no greater darkness than that which perverts the Gospel and robs God of the glory of His salvation and seeks to give it to the choice of evil men. Those who promote the idea that man can do anything to save himself, destroy the very concept of grace. Repentance and faith are conditions of salvation for without them God has decreed that none will be saved but they are not conditions unto salvation for they are both granted by grace and thus fruits of salvation.

It is a silly notion to think that calling the coast guard as your boat is sinking in heavy seas as saving yourself.

The fact that the Bible is full of “ifs” and “whoevers” supports choice.

Why would God invite us to reason with Him? Why would God make an appeal through us?

How can there be a falling away with out a choice being made.

God did not create hell fodder out of lost souls.

The Gospel is not an offer but a proclamation of who God is and what He has done to save His people from their sin in Christ.

The Bible teaches us that he took away the sins of the whole world not just our. The Bible teaches that God, so loved the world. The Bible teaches us that God appeals to fallen men through us Christians. The Bible teaches that we are to come together and reason with the Lord.

You’re simply ignoring too many texts they do not support your position. We must take all of the texts in the Bible not just the ones that stroke are bias.

The only invitation given in Scripture is to the humble, broken hearted and contrite who know they deserve Hell and not the proud whom God resists and therefore it is only a blessing available to those who are placed on the narrow road whom Christ said was few.

The bible teaches us that God would that all men be saved. We really can’t ignore any part of the Bible just because it disagrees with our theology.

The Bible teaches us that God has no respect or persons and that he makes it to rain on the just the unjust.

The light of general revelation witnessed in nature and natural law seen in the conscience of all men only serves to make men more accountable before God and it is only by special revelation found in Christ that any are regenerated unto eternal life.

It is a despicable doctrine that inescapably leads one to the conclusion that God created to sum men to be fodder for hell and to punish them for eternity for since that they could not help but commit. It’s simply disgusting to view God in such a light.

God can not help but be good in all of who He is and does and His good providence to all is not to be seen as confirming a love of God to all as many assume, for vexed Asaph found out very plainly in Psalm 73 that the supposed blessings given to the wicked only served to set them in slippery places (v18), to fill up the measure of their sin (1 Th 2:16), store wrath for the day of wrath (Rom 2:5) and fatten them up unto God's just slaughter (Jas 5:5, Jer 12:3) which is not the God that most who claim to be Christians today know and therefore they do not yet realise what they have been saved from or truly appreciate the magnificent gift of God which fills His people with awe, reverence and thanksgiving.

We humanize God can incorrectly assume his wrath is like ours when in fact, it is not anything like our wrath.

Why would God cause sin to exist and become angry that it did?

 

[David Lamb]

It is a despicable doctrine that inescapably leads one to the conclusion that God created to sum men to be fodder for hell and to punish them for eternity for since that they could not help but commit. It’s simply disgusting to view God in such a light.

The necessity of God's special revelation a despicable doctrine? The bible says:

“"All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and [the one] to whom the Son wills to reveal [Him].” (Mt 11:27 NKJV)

“15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called [me] through His grace, 16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,” (Ga 1:15-16 NKJV)

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I feel this needs to be pressed:

2 Corinthians 5:18 KJV
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

John 3:16-17 KJV
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 John 2:1-2 KJV
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:14 KJV
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

John 1:29 KJV
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 4:42 KJV
42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

Romans 11:15 KJV
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Praise the Lord. And as Paul by the Holy Spirit said: Since all in the world have been reconciled to God:

2 Corinthians 5:20 KJV
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

 

[Paleouss]

Calvin wrote, That the Holy Spirit works in the elect by irresistible grace, so that they must be converted and be saved; while the grace necessary and sufficient for conversion, faith, and salvation is withheld from the rest, although they are externally called and invited by the revealed will of God.

Hello Mercy Shown. Thank you for responding to my post.

Umm, I'm not sure the quote you gave is from John Calvin. The quote is actually point #4 from "The Remonstrance" (1610) that was part of the Arminians declaration against some Calvinist doctrine. I'm not suggesting Calvin didn't believe something like point #4 states, just that it is not his quote. Although your point is the same, I suspect.

Looking over your other posts to others, it looks like what you are trying to say is ...

Since God wishes all people would be saved(1 Tim 2:4) it stands to reason that Titus 2:11 means what it says.

To summarize, you are asserting that God wishes all to be saved and sent His Son to die for the sins of the world . Is that correct? Here is something from J.C. Ryle (Anglican Bishop 1800s)...

“On the other hand, we must beware of narrow and contracted opinions. We must not hesitate to tell any sinner that God loves him. It is not true that God cares for none but His own elect, or that Christ is not offered to any but those who are ordained to eternal life. There is a “kindness and love” in God towards all mankind. It was in consequence of that love that Christ came into the world, and died upon the cross. Let us not be wise above that which is written, or more systematic in our statements than Scripture itself. God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. God is not willing that any should perish. God would have all men to be saved. God loves the world.”

Calvin writes,

“As the whole matter of our salvation must not be sought any where else than in Christ, so we must see whence Christ came to us, and why he was offered to be our Savior. Both points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish.

And another quote from Calvin regarding Isa 53:12...

That, then, is how our Lord Jesus bore the sins and iniquities of many. But in fact, this word “many” is often as good as equivalent to “all“. And indeed, our Lord Jesus was offered to all the world.

I'm assuming you will hold to a "Christ died for all" position. Are you aware of the distinction between "Atonement Accomplished" and "Atonement Applied"?

A final question so I understand your position you are arguing. Do you hold that the Bible teaches any form of election/predestination? I don't need to know it in detail, just whether you hold the Bible teaches such.

Peace be with you my brother

 

[maxamir]

It is a silly notion to think that calling the coast guard as your boat is sinking in heavy seas as saving yourself.

The fact that the Bible is full of “ifs” and “whoevers” supports choice.

Why would God invite us to reason with Him? Why would God make an appeal through us?

How can there be a falling away with out a choice being made.

God did not create hell fodder out of lost souls.

The Bible teaches us that he took away the sins of the whole world not just our. The Bible teaches that God, so loved the world. The Bible teaches us that God appeals to fallen men through us Christians. The Bible teaches that we are to come together and reason with the Lord.

You’re simply ignoring too many texts they do not support your position. We must take all of the texts in the Bible not just the ones that stroke are bias.

The bible teaches us that God would that all men be saved. We really can’t ignore any part of the Bible just because it disagrees with our theology.

The Bible teaches us that God has no respect or persons and that he makes it to rain on the just the unjust.



It is a despicable doctrine that inescapably leads one to the conclusion that God created to sum men to be fodder for hell and to punish them for eternity for since that they could not help but commit. It’s simply disgusting to view God in such a light.

We humanize God can incorrectly assume his wrath is like ours when in fact, it is not anything like our wrath.

Why would God cause sin to exist and become angry that it did?

sadly, you have proven by your response that you do not yet know the thrice holy God of Scripture who hates evil so much that He justly killed every man, woman, child and animal in the flood bar the remnant in the ark which is a picture of Christ whom God killed at the hands of evil men to demonstrate His righteousness and holy hatred for evil and holy love in saving His people from that evil as He decreed before He created all things which included the wicked for the day of doom (Pro 16:4). And because you do not truly know God yet, you do not either truly know who man is yet as God see's Him.

Choices given to man in time do not prove that man is free to choose God as you falsely assume for to do so would be to negate the doctrine of original sin and man's spiritually dead nature which you and you ilk are always desperate to downplay to try to mold Scripture into your man-centred theology which robs a perfectly jealous God of the glory of HIS salvation and those who do so are labelled in Scripture as perverting the Gospel and bringing a double portion of curse upon themselves unless God has mercy upon them, which is my prayer for you and all like you.

Because you somehow think that God loves absolutely every person which must therefore include those He justly casts into Hell and eternally torments (unless you somehow foolishly think that He changes), you overlook the plethora of Scriptures which proclaim God's hatred for the wicked reprobate, eighteen of which I will list below for you to peruse and ponder.

And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them (Lev. 20:23).

And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you (Lev. 26:30).

For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee (Deut. 18:12).

For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the Lord thy God (Deut. 25:16).

And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters (Deut. 32:19).

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man (Ps. 5:5-6).

For the wicked boasteth of his heart’s desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the Lord abhorreth (Ps. 10:3).

The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth (Ps. 11:5).

These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren (Prov. 6:16-19).

The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the Lord: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished (Prov. 16:4-5).

He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord (Prov. 17:15).

The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the Lord shall fall therein (Prov. 22:14).

Behold, ye [i.e., idols] are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you (Isa. 41:24).

Mine heritage is unto me as a lion in the forest; it crieth out against me: therefore have I hated it (Jer. 12:8).

All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house (Hos. 9:15).

Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me (Zech. 11:8).

I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the Lord hath indignation for ever. And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The Lord will be magnified from the border of Israel (Mal. 1:2-5).

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated (Rom. 9:13).

Hence, the root of your theology is flawed and you still think that God must desire the salvation of everyone, even those He has sovereignly decreed He will not save and justly hands over to the sin that they love to do unto their greater judgement. If God desires absolutely everyone to be saved then why did Christ rejoice and thank His Father for blinding some to the truth and even said it was good for doing so?

Luk 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

Once by grace you come to realise that the only thing men deserve in this world is God's perfectly good, holy, righteous, just and eternal wrath you will never truly understand or appreciate the Gospel of God's grace and in the meantime will be accountable before God for leading many astray.

 

[maxamir]

All of that was dealt with on the cross of Christ. That is what "redeemed," "reconciled," and "propitiation" are talking about.
All I did was quote some scriptures. Do you have a problem with the scriptures? Address them if you like, and quit throwing condemnation around.
When you are done ranting like a banshee, be aware that I have written several books about sin and how to overcome it in your life. One is called "How to Never Sin Again," which not only addresses the issues you seemed to be singularly focused on but also presents the scriptural method God has given us to overcome sin, the devil, and the flesh in our lives. Yes, we have been given everything we need to overcome the world. Screaming about God's hatred and condemning everyone in sight is not helping anyone except your ego. Calm down and listen for a change. You might find out people agree with you!

James 1:19-20 KJV
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

once a person boasts like you have, it becomes plain that they have not yet been humbled by God and it is my sincere desire that God would soon chasten all who do so unless they be bastards as the KJV puts it, and He leaves you in the the delusion that while in the flesh Christians can stop sinning.

Christ delivers His people from the condemnation and guilt of sin, is delivering them from the power of sin and will soon deliver His people from the presence of sin and if you do not believe that then you must not yet know that God's standard is perfection and all that is done without faith is sin so that the very best that men may think they do is as filthy rags before God.

Scripture declares that all things work together for good to those who love God and are the called according to his purpose and that includes the sin that His people have been regenerated to hate which they once loved. A true Christian loves God and seeks to do His will in all things but many times they go astray and God has to chastise them which is done by handing them over to that sin so they can grow in a deeper appreciation of what they have been saved from and God's holy hatred of it. Any Christian who uses this knowledge as an excuse for sin does not yet know grace.

God does not cause His people to sin as James makes very clear (Jas 1:13-14) and Christ taught His disciples to pray that the Lord not lead them into temptation, which does not mean that God leads people into sin but that when necessary, He justly hands them over to it for His greater purpose and for their greater good.

Those who are truly God's children can have confidence that when they sin, they can humbly come before God and confess their sin to Him, knowing with confidence that Christ has nailed their sin debt to the cross and there is forgiveness of all sins, past, present and future for His people, even to the chief of sinners through Christ who is their eternal advocate for where sin abounds, grace abounds even more so.

 

[Mercy Shown]

sadly, you have proven by your response that you do not yet know the thrice holy God of Scripture who hates evil so much that He justly killed every man, woman, child and animal in the flood bar the remnant in the ark which is a picture of Christ whom God killed at the hands of evil men to demonstrate His righteousness and holy hatred for evil and holy love in saving His people from that evil as He decreed before He created all things which included the wicked for the day of doom (Pro 16:4). And because you do not truly know God yet, you do not either truly know who man is yet as God see's Him.

This is quite a post. Any man who would put themselves in the place of God to make such spiritual judgments about another person has demonstrated from whence they are inspired.

You have put God in man’s place, and you stepped up on the throne of judgment to condemn others for not believing what you believe.

Here you would use examples from the Old Testament to portray God as a person in heaven who created men to be wicked and some to be good and then had a hatred and anger for that which He created to be what it was.

You’ve intellectually painted yourself into a corner; however, I don’t think that your bias would allow you to realize it. If you were going to use the old Testament to get a proper picture of God, then you must agree that God can do things that he later regrets because the Old Testament says that’s true. In fact, you could go so far is to say God repents because that’s what the old testament says he did in several occasions.

You would also have to admit that God is not omniscient, but must come down from heaven to see what’s going on as his portrayed when he came down to examine the tower of Babel or when he came to examine the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Of course, your bias will filter those things out and use the other instances that support what you believe as proof texts.

Because you inserted your conclusion into your hypothesis and would not use all of the old Testament to paint a complete picture of God, but only the few selected parts that support your bias. You have impeached the rest of this post.