Salvation is a free gift but only to those who want it above all else.

[d taylor]

Can you support your claim other than just pronouncing it is so?

So then, is there work to perform?

You are now the one saying that it is not a free gift. Of course, this all dovetails nicely with what I posted.

-
​

Support what claim that belief in Jesus gives Eternal Life.

No work, just believe in Jesus a one time action done by a person.

No i have said in all my post, to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life believe in Jesus.

You are the one who said salvation is free but then went on to write.
We accept it through the willingness to obey and surrender of our wills to Christ.
and
but it requires a sincere desire that leads to a willingness to give up everything God asks of us.

At best you are giving a confusing message, not once did you ever mention belief in Jesus. Basically yours is another gospel a gospel of obedience and surrender and not of belief in Jesus

 

[Mercy Shown]

-
​

Support what claim that belief in Jesus gives Eternal Life.

This claim.

The scriptures you posted are not addressing Eternal Life and how to receive life.

No work, just believe in Jesus a one time action done by a person.

But you just called that a work in your last post.

No i have said in all my post, to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life believe in Jesus.

You are the one who said salvation is free but then went on to write.
We accept it through the willingness to obey and surrender of our wills to Christ.
and
but it requires a sincere desire that leads to a willingness to give up everything God asks of us.

At best you are giving a confusing message, not once did you ever mention belief in Jesus. Basically yours is another gospel a gospel of obedience and surrender and not of belief in Jesus

Your messages are back and forth. Believing is a work then no, believing is not a work.

Belief is a work,

 

[d taylor]

This claim.



But you just called that a work in your last post.

Your messages are back and forth. Believing is a work then no, believing is not a work.

-
​

You were the one who posted verses, where there is no mention in the verses you posted, the receiving of Eternal Life.

No i called that a passive work. It is a one time action. The verse i posted Jesus even answers the question ask of Him. What are the works a person needs to do. Jesus replied the work is to believe in Jesus.

The action of belief is not the same as a life time of obedience and surrender. Belief is a one time action, that occurs in the mind/heart.

 

[Dan1988]

I quoted the Gospel that Jesus taught, so you are saying that he taught a false Gospel. I have not said anything about being Arminian.


I have not said anything contrary to those verses, but rather the first thing that I said in this thread affirmed that our obedience to God's law has nothing to do with earning our salvation as the result, but rather God graciously teaching us to obey is the way that He is giving us His gift of salvation, which is in accordance with us being new creations in Christ to do good works.


While it is true that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, it is false that no one has ever been able to keep it. Again, Romans 10:5-8 quotes Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaim that God's law is not too difficult for us to keep, so you are denying the word of faith that we proclaim. In 1 John 5:3, to love God is to keep His commandments, which are not burdensome, so by claiming that no one has ever been able to keep the law you are denying that anyone has ever loved God and denying that His commandments are not burdensome. Moreover, there are many examples of people who did keep God's law, such as those in Joshua 22:1-3, Luke 1:5-6, Revelation 14:12, and Revelation 22:14.


Again, God does not command filthy rags, but rather the righteous deeds of the saints are like fine white linen (Revelation 19:8). Again, our obedience to God's law has nothing to do with trying to do something in exchange for our salvation, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of it is the way that He is giving us His gift of salvation. You are simply not paying attention to what I'm saying.


Jesus expressed the righteousness of God through living in obedience to His law, so that is also the way that we live when we are imputed with the righteousness of God.


Again, Psalms 119:29-30 describes the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith regardless of which covenant someone is under, if any.

You quoted the false Arminian gospel which Jesus never taught. You proclaim and you hold to the false Arminian, works based gospel, while denying the fact that you are an Arminian. Such is the power of demonic deception, and the resulting delusion.

You're still denying the truth of the gospel which teaches that, "there are none who seek after God", and that "all have gone astray", and that "there are none righteous, no not one". You quoted scriptures, about some righteous people who keep the commandments, but you fail to understand that all of those people were born again Christians.

Abraham was a born again Christian, and as such he was quickened back to life by God, while he was dead in his sin. God made him alive, and converted him, and regenerated him, and made him a new creature and everything was made new in him, and He sanctified him, and He was transforming him into the image of His Son.

According to you false gospel, God didn't do any of the above for Abraham. Your false religion teaches that Abraham, made himself alive and got rid of his sin nature and created a new heart for himself to become obedient to God, so he can repent and follow Jesus.
I find it hard to believe that you can trample over so many scriptures which clearly teach that salvation is by grace through faith, and that not of yourself, but it is the gift of God lest anyone should boast.

You're happy to accept that salvation is by Gods grace and your faith, so it's a joint effort between you and God and that gives you plenty to boast about. Well that false gospel is an abomination in Gods sight, it is the greatest insult to God and He will pour out His wrath on those who push this Satanic lie.

As a born again, elect Saint of God, I'm righteous and I keep the commands. But that's only because I'm in hid in Christ, He is the only one who is righteous and He kept all the commandments, so it's not me at all, but it's all Him. I have died to self and I continue to diminish, while Christ continues to increase.

No born again believer has ever been able to keep any of the commandments or obey God at all. No born again believer has ever achieved any righteousness, but it's the Holy Spirt working in and through us that leads us in His righteousness. We still sin every day for the rest of our lives, but our sin is not counted to us, because Jesus has already paid for every one of our past, present and future sins.

There is no good thing in me or any born again believer, we are still in this body of death, which can only offer filthy rags to God.

 

[Soyeong]

You quoted the false Arminian gospel which Jesus never taught. You proclaim and you hold to the false Arminian, works based gospel, while denying the fact that you are an Arminian. Such is the power of demonic deception, and the resulting delusion.

The Gospel of the Kingdom that Christ taught in Matthew 4:15-23 is the true Gospel of Christ, not a false Arminian gospel. The Gospel of the Kingdom in accordance with Christ being sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness, which is the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), which he spread to those in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5).

You're still denying the truth of the gospel which teaches that, "there are none who seek after God", and that "all have gone astray", and that "there are none righteous, no not one". You quoted scriptures, about some righteous people who keep the commandments, but you fail to understand that all of those people were born again Christians.

That is notably is not the Gospel that Christ taught, moreover, it is false that no one is righteous because there are many people who are described as righteous by the Bible and I've said nothing contrary to these people being born again Christians.

Abraham was a born again Christian, and as such he was quickened back to life by God, while he was dead in his sin. God made him alive, and converted him, and regenerated him, and made him a new creature and everything was made new in him, and He sanctified him, and He was transforming him into the image of His Son.

According to you false gospel, God didn't do any of the above for Abraham. Your false religion teaches that Abraham, made himself alive and got rid of his sin nature and created a new heart for himself to become obedient to God, so he can repent and follow Jesus.
I find it hard to believe that you can trample over so many scriptures which clearly teach that salvation is by grace through faith, and that not of yourself, but it is the gift of God lest anyone should boast.

I didn't deny the above or teach any of those things or say anything contrary to salvation being by grace through faith, so you're making things and trying to put them in my mouth while trying to claim that I'm the one who is delusional.

You're happy to accept that salvation is by Gods grace and your faith, so it's a joint effort between you and God and that gives you plenty to boast about. Well that false gospel is an abomination in Gods sight, it is the greatest insult to God and He will pour out His wrath on those who push this Satanic lie.

I don't say anything about join effort so that we can have something to boast about. You are burning a straw man while refusing to interact with the things that I've said.

No born again believer has ever been able to keep any of the commandments or obey God at all. No born again believer has ever achieved any righteousness, but it's the Holy Spirt working in and through us that leads us in His righteousness. We still sin every day for the rest of our lives, but our sin is not counted to us, because Jesus has already paid for every one of our past, present and future sins.

In 1 John 3:4-10, everyone who is a doer of righteous works is righteous even as they are righteous and those who are not a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law are not born again. Obedience to God's law has nothing to do with trying to achieve any righteousness, but rather that is a fundamental misunderstanding of why we should obey it.

There is no good thing in me or any born again believer, we are still in this body of death, which can only offer filthy rags to God.

Again, you are blatantly using Isaiah 64:6 out of context and you are ignoring Revelation 19:18.

 

[Dan1988]

The Gospel of the Kingdom that Christ taught in Matthew 4:15-23 is the true Gospel of Christ, not a false Arminian gospel. The Gospel of the Kingdom in accordance with Christ being sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness, which is the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), which he spread to those in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5).


That is notably is not the Gospel that Christ taught, moreover, it is false that no one is righteous because there are many people who are described as righteous by the Bible and I've said nothing contrary to these people being born again Christians.


I didn't deny the above or teach any of those things or say anything contrary to salvation being by grace through faith, so you're making things and trying to put them in my mouth while trying to claim that I'm the one who is delusional.


I don't say anything about join effort so that we can have something to boast about. You are burning a straw man while refusing to interact with the things that I've said.


In 1 John 3:4-10, everyone who is a doer of righteous works is righteous even as they are righteous and those who are not a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law are not born again. Obedience to God's law has nothing to do with trying to achieve any righteousness, but rather that is a fundamental misunderstanding of why we should obey it.


Again, you are blatantly using Isaiah 64:6 out of context and you are ignoring Revelation 19:18.

Dear, Sir/Madam

You still haven't admitted that you don't contribute anything apart from filthy rags towards your salvation. You keep side stepping around the issue.

Your theology is all messed up and it's incoherent, you talk about keeping the law like a Pharisee. you have this foolish notion, that some people can manufacture their own righteousness. While ignoring what God said, that there are none righteous no not one.

If anyone is righteous in Gods sight, it has nothing to do with their own righteousness. Everything you have was given to you by God, so if you claim to be righteous, then claim that God imputed His righteousness to you, so you will have nothing to boast about.

 

[Soyeong]

Dear, Sir/Madam

You still haven't admitted that you don't contribute anything apart from filthy rags towards your salvation. You keep side stepping around the issue.

Again, the first thing that I said in this thread was that our obedience to God's law has nothing to do with earn our salvation, but you keep trying to argue against my position as though I had said the opposite in lieu of engaging in what I have said. Again, Isaiah 64:6 has nothing to do with the issue of the extent to what we contribute to our salvation, but is people hypocritically complaining about God not coming down and making His presence known.

Your theology is all messed up and it's incoherent, you talk about keeping the law like a Pharisee. you have this foolish notion, that some people can manufacture their own righteousness. While ignoring what God said, that there are none righteous no not one.

You excel at being able to speak negatively about my position but are terrible at engaging with my position to explain why you think it is wrong. Again. Psalms 14:1-3 does say that there is no one who is righteous, but that there is no one who is righteous who says that there is no God.

If anyone is righteous in Gods sight, it has nothing to do with their own righteousness. Everything you have was given to you by God, so if you claim to be righteous, then claim that God imputed His righteousness to you, so you will have nothing to boast about.

Our obedience to God's law has nothing to do with trying to establish our own righteousness as the result. The only way to become righteous is through faith and what it means for us to become righteous is to become a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law. Likewise, the only way for someone to become courageous is through faith and what it means for someone to become courageous to become a doer of courageous works, and the same is true for every other character trait.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

1 John 3:9 KJV
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The part of you that is born of God is your spirit.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Santa doesn't give gifts to all children without exception, he only delivers to those children of whom the parents have paid the money for the gifts in advance. The children who's parents didn't purchase the gifts in advance will get nothing from Santa. So those who's names are not written in Gods book won't receive the free gift of salvation.

This is a really bad analogy because in both the story of “Santa Clause” and St Nicolas, the gifts weren’t paid for by anyone they are given in charity.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Jesus plainly states that salvation is impossible for man to obtain by choosing to accept the free gift. This must mean that those who are dead in their sin cannot make a choice to believe in Christ to receive salvation.

That’s not even remotely close to what Jesus told them. Jesus had just told a rich man that in order for him to receive eternal life he must sell everything he owned and give it to the poor. He didn’t say anything at all anywhere in the entire chapter about any free gift. You took one statement that He made out of context and made it into something completely different that is not discussed anywhere in the entire chapter.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Salvation is a free gift for believers, but it cost God everything He has to provide it.
This precious gift is not acquired by anyone, the only people who receive this free gift are those who the Father gives it to. Nobody can force God's hand to give this gift to them by anything they do.

God chose those who would receive this gift before He created the world. He wrote the names of every individual who will receive this gift, those who's names are not in His book will never receive the free gift of salvation.

Why were these people chosen according to His foreknowledge then? What did He foresee that influenced His decision in who He would choose and who He would not choose?

 

[BNR32FAN]

John 15:16
You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

Lol, what did He just say to these chosen men in the first 7 verses of this chapter?

““I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭1‬-‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Apparently according to what He said to them in the very same discussion that you quoted above, these chosen men were capable of not abiding in Him which would’ve resulted in condemnation. So I’ll ask again, what was it that God foresaw that influenced His decision in who He would choose and who He wouldn’t choose?

 

[BNR32FAN]

That is why God offers it to all. Titus 2:11 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men," Isaiah records God as saying, "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other."(Is 45:22) The author of Hebrews said it was for everyone. "

Hebrews 2:9
But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

So as you can see, Grace is given to all who will receive it. It won't be given to those who do not want it, for that would be forcing them, and then it would no longer be a gift.




God gave the gift to the world, for He loved the world. (See John 3:16.) He died for the whole world. (see 1 John 2:2) But a gift ceases to be a gift if it is not accepted, for a gift must be given and received. It is available to all, but not everyone avails themselves of it.

They could have taken it from God's hand by faith, but they would not. John Calvin had a mean god; thus, he became mean to those who opposed his theology. The damnation of any man comes at their own hands; by their own choice, don't lay that on God who emptied heaven to save them.

You took those scriptures completely out of their context. This conversation was about rich people having a difficult time with salvation. It was not a general teaching about salvation.

16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

This was said to His disciples. And He did choose them, yet one was a devil.

This is true. God knows who will respond and choose Him. His grace calls them. That same call goes out to the whole world, but the proud have no ears to hear it because they will not humble themselves in the sight of God. All men can access the call, but too many refuse to listen.

God knew who would hear it; in that sense, it was a call to them: His Sheep. But the offer is still there for all men. The seed is still cast on the hardened path.

Because John Calvin misunderstood and misapplied selected texts from the bible does not mean that we should.

Amen, that’s probably why it was named the “Universal” church because it is for everyone.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You falsely claim that God offer salvation to all men, and you use Titus 2:11 which actually condemns all unbelievers to hell. It's saying everyone has heard the gospel, but most are unable to embrace it because they hate gospel massage and they hate God, because they love sin and they serve Satan instead of God. So why would God offer such scum the gift of salvation, when He has already condemned them and He already hates them and He will never forgive them for any of their sins.

First of all Titus 2 doesn’t say anything about people being “unable” to believe the gospel, you just pulled that out of thin air. Romans 1:16 says that the gospel is the power of God to salvation to those who believe. The gospel itself has the power to elicit a response in those who hear it if they are willing. Why would God offer such scum salvation you ask? You were no different before you came to Christ just like the rest of us. Every single Christian since Christ began His ministry was a wretched person, and yet God still offered us salvation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If God loved the wicked, then He Himself would be wicked, but your Arminian religion teaches that He is wicked because He loves wickedness and the depraved child rapists.

Newsflash, every single one of us were wicked before we came to Christ, including you. So why would He save you if you were wicked if He doesn’t save wicked people? If He didn’t save wicked people there wouldn’t be a single person in heaven.

 

[Hoping2]

Newsflash, every single one of us were wicked before we came to Christ, including you. So why would He save you if you were wicked if He doesn’t save wicked people? If He didn’t save wicked people there wouldn’t be a single person in heaven.

Thanks be to God for giving us a chance to be unwicked.
By the gifts of repentance from sin and the washing of the blood of Christ, we can leave the wickedness behind !

 

[BNR32FAN]

the typical rantings of a synergist who somehow thinks that man who is spiritually dead can somehow choose God to be saved, which is a denial of the doctrine of original sin and man's true condition before God.

The Gospel is indeed to be proclaimed to all indiscriminately but to say it is a blessing to all is foolishness for Scripture declares that it is an aroma of life unto life to some but to others it is an aroma of death unto death (2 Cor 2:14-16), meaning that those who hear the Gospel are more accountable than those who have never heard it and are worse off if they die in their sin. Christ said the same about the towns He visited who saw His miracles and heard His message and were told it would be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah than them because of their hardness of heart in not repenting.

The only way that man achieves a sincere desire that leads to a willingness to give up everything God asks is to first be born again by the Holy Spirit, made a new creature in Christ with a new heart that gladly submits to Him unto death out of gratitude and thankfulness rather than merit, which is what those who proclaim that man can do anything to save himself ultimately believe and deny that it is Christ who is the Author and Finisher of their faith an not themselves.

If that were actually true then you should be able to explain James 5:19-20 but you can’t which is why you repeatedly refused to explain the passage. If people are chosen by God to be saved apart from anything they do and are automatically predestined for salvation then a believer who strays from the truth of the gospel can’t be in danger of the death of his soul. And if this person wasn’t a believer in the first place then turning him BACK can’t possibly save his soul from death either now can it?

“My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

Thanks be to God for giving us a chance to be unwicked.
By the gifts of repentance from sin and the washing of the blood of Christ, we can leave the wickedness behind !

BIG AMEN to that my friend.

 

[Dan1988]

Again, the first thing that I said in this thread was that our obedience to God's law has nothing to do with earn our salvation, but you keep trying to argue against my position as though I had said the opposite in lieu of engaging in what I have said. Again, Isaiah 64:6 has nothing to do with the issue of the extent to what we contribute to our salvation, but is people hypocritically complaining about God not coming down and making His presence known.


You excel at being able to speak negatively about my position but are terrible at engaging with my position to explain why you think it is wrong. Again. Psalms 14:1-3 does say that there is no one who is righteous, but that there is no one who is righteous who says that there is no God.


Our obedience to God's law has nothing to do with trying to establish our own righteousness as the result. The only way to become righteous is through faith and what it means for us to become righteous is to become a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law. Likewise, the only way for someone to become courageous is through faith and what it means for someone to become courageous to become a doer of courageous works, and the same is true for every other character trait.

I'm still trying to understand your theology, you say "the only way to become righteous is through faith". So you're saying we can become righteous by works, since "faith" is a work, according to your theology.

You say, "to become righteous is to become a doer of righteous works in obedience to Gods law".

I don't know of any scriptures which could be used to support this unbiblical view, but I know of many that refute this view and teach the opposite that nobody can become a doer of righteous work in obedience to Gods law. The only law we can obey is the law of sin, which dwells in us.

Romans 7:15-20​

​

15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.​

16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.​

​

17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.​

​

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.​

​

19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.​

​

20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.​

As you can clearly see, a Saint of God cannot do the good that he would do because he practices the evil which he doesn't want to practice, because we are all still in the body of death which is corrupt and wants to do evil all the time.

You can't change who you are and force yourself to obey God's law, if you could then Jesus wouldn't have needed to suffer and die for your sin.

Your theology is the same as the religious Phrases, who believed they were going to be saved by their works. They hated Jesus, because He proclaimed that we are saved by grace, through the gift of faith. So there was nothing for them to boast about, just as there is nothing for you to boast about if you are saved.

 

[Dan1988]

Newsflash, every single one of us were wicked before we came to Christ, including you. So why would He save you if you were wicked if He doesn’t save wicked people? If He didn’t save wicked people there wouldn’t be a single person in heaven.

As usual, you have twisted everything back to front. The awful truth is, nobody has ever come to Christ. You just made that lie up.
Everyone knows that everyone is born wicked and they remain dead in their sin forever, unless God quickens them to life and changes who they are.
Nobody would be saved, if God didn't chose to save a remanent for His glory. You don't get to con God into electing you for salvation. He won't be fooled by your deceptive scam, He can see directly into your soul. So the only person you're fooling is yourself.