Sabbath lie

[Cribstyl]

When Moses returned to Egypt the Israelites rested on the Sabbath. Ex. 5:And Pharaoh said, Behold, the people of the land now are many, and ye make them rest from their burdens.
There is no need to twist, we find in God's word clear support for the facts.
Twisting is required to deny the Sabbath before Sinai not to support it.

You're too busy with your little word game to know the truth Elder.....

The only rest that Moses requested from Pharaoh was to go on a road trip with all the people to have a feast unto God.


Exo 5:1
¶
And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness.

Exo 5:2 And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go.

Exo 5:3 And they said, The God of the Hebrews hath met with us: let us go, we pray thee, three days' journey into the desert, and sacrifice unto the LORD our God; lest he fall upon us with pestilence, or with the sword.


It should be clear that Moses only asked the Pharaoh to go into the desert to sacrifice to God.


Exo 5:4 And the king of Egypt said unto them, Wherefore do ye, Moses and Aaron, let the people from their works? get you unto your burdens.
Exo 5:5 And Pharaoh said, Behold, the people of the land now are many, and ye make them rest from their burdens.

Then Pharaoh's response was "You want this whole operation to come to a halt? Get back to work. You want to shut down the whole city for days? No way in heaven.

Elder, you're also missing this one important fact among others. All this had nothing to do with the Sabbath.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Christ's language implied that circumcision preceded the Sabbath and therefore, Moses knew not to alter, what God had already ordained as an everlasting covenant.

this just conjecture on your part.

He could have implied that some sabbaths would coincide with the circumcision date and to use common sense in such things.

 

[Cribstyl]

this just conjecture on your part.

He could have implied that some sabbaths would coincide with the circumcision date and to use common sense in such things.

Get it right Rabbit, Jesus said Moses commanded circumcision because it was (a covenant) passed down from the fathers.
Is it a secret to you that God's covenant of circumcision was both a sign of the everlasting covenant, and a law, that Abraham and every male child kept throughout their generations.

Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Because of His covenant with Abraham God was obligated to act to deliver the COI from bondage.
Exo 2:24 ¶And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.

Exo 2:24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob. You should know that God's obligation was to produce "the seed" from the COI. The obligation the covenant of the COI was to circumcise every male child. Sorry, Sabbath was not given until they were free from slavery. By reading the 4th commandment in Duet 5, the reason WHY God commanded them to keep the Sabbath is because He delivered them from bondage in Egypt.


Ex12 should help you to know that God commanded Moses what the Children of Israel and strangers who joined them will observe. No uncircumcised person could eat the Passover. Where is your Sabbath truth?




Exo 12:47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.

Exo 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Christ referenced that Moses obeyed God, not His own choice.

 

[bugkiller]

Thanks, I try to keep it real with a little help from my friends Scatch, listed, Bugster, Frogster, VictorC, Sophrosyne, LLOJ, more coffee,

Sure try.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

When Moses returned to Egypt the Israelites rested on the Sabbath. Ex. 5:And Pharaoh said, Behold, the people of the land now are many, and ye make them rest from their burdens.
There is no need to twist, we find in God's word clear support for the facts.
Twisting is required to deny the Sabbath before Sinai not to support it.

No just plain reading. Really I think he should've said prior to the departure from Egypt. But he's close enough to prove it wasn't before.

bugkiller

 

[Cribstyl]

Jesus said Moses commanded circumcision because it was (a covenant) passed down from the fathers.

Jhn 7:22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

Is it a secret that circumcision was both a sign of a covenant, and a law, just as Sabbath was?

Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Because of His covenant with Abraham God was obligated to act to deliver the COI from bondage.
Exo 2:24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob. God's obligation to the Abrahamic covenant was to produce "the seed" from the COI.
The COI's obligation to the covenant was to circumcise every male child. Paul argued, if keeping the law made people heirs, then the promise is worthless.

Rom 4:14For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:


The 4th commandment in Duet 5, says the reason WHY God commanded them to keep the Sabbath is because He delivered them from bondage in Egypt.

Ex12 show that God commanded Moses that No uncircumcised person could eat the Passover, including the strangers.
So Moses commanded the circumcision as God just as God commanded before Sabbath was given.


Exo 12:47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.

Exo 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Those who argue about a creation Sabbath, don't want to see how and when circumcision and Passover was given with biblical commands from God's mouth.


In a Sabbath discussion Jesus identified circumcision being passed down from the fathers. What does that mean about the Sabbath?
WAKE UP to the truth.

 

[Cribstyl]

When Sabbath is first introduce in the bible, the only way presented to violate the Sabbath was by going out of your house to pick up manna (food) on the seventh day.

When scripture show that Jesus allowed His disciples to pick fruits on the Sabbath, there should be no question on whether the Pharisees were being overzealously interpreting the law. Fact is, they interpret the law correctly.
What causes them to lose their case in heaven is: Jesus told them whom He was. This does point to the Sabbath commandment being more ceremonial than moral, if some people are exempt from working on that day.

Some use the scriptures of Jesus healing on the Sabbath to authorized the possibility of "good works" by everybody on the Sabbath.

That completely undermines what the Sabbath commands says about HOW to keep the Sabbath.

 

[annier]

When Sabbath is first introduce in the bible, the only way presented to violate the Sabbath was by going out of your house to pick up manna (food) on the seventh day.

When scripture show that Jesus allowed His disciples to pick fruits on the Sabbath, there should be no question on whether the Pharisees were being overzealously interpreting the law. Fact is, they interpret the law correctly.
What causes them to lose their case in heaven is: Jesus told them whom He was. This does point to the Sabbath commandment being more ceremonial than moral, if some people are exempt from working on that day.

Some use the scriptures of Jesus healing on the Sabbath to authorized the possibility of "good works" by everybody on the Sabbath.

That completely undermines what the Sabbath commands says about HOW to keep the Sabbath.

Excellent posts on the subject Cribstyl .
Here is what I see concerning the introduction to the Sabbath to the children of Israel.

The law of faith.....

Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

Abraham was proved in the law of faith...

Ge 22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Ge 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.


As was Israel proved in the law of faith......

Ex 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.


The manna ended when they entered the land

The sabbath given before the covenant law made with Israel at Sinai. It was temporary and was commanded to prove them according to the law of faith. It concerned the provision of manna to sustain them until they entered their rest.

Ex 33:14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.
De 12:9 For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.

 

[Elder 111]

Excellent posts on the subject Cribstyl .
Here is what I see concerning the introduction to the Sabbath to the children of Israel.

The law of faith.....

Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

Abraham was proved in the law of faith...

Ge 22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Ge 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.


As was Israel proved in the law of faith......

Ex 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.


The manna ended when they entered the land

The sabbath given before the covenant law made with Israel at Sinai. It was temporary and was commanded to prove them according to the law of faith. It concerned the provision of manna to sustain them until they entered their rest.

Ex 33:14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.
De 12:9 For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.

The Sabbath is part of the ten Commandments, therefore if the ten Commandments were temporary so likewise the Sabbath. Is thou shall not steal temporary? or thou shall serve no other God?

 

[Steeno7]

The Sabbath is part of the ten Commandments, therefore if the ten Commandments were temporary so likewise the Sabbath. Is thou shall not steal temporary? or thou shall serve no other God?

Why do you think His commands are not burdensome for the Christian? Because under the New Covenant, God is the dynamic of His own demands. What was mans "must do" under the Old, is Gods "I Will" under the New. Read Ezekiel 36.

Remember Jesus didn't say you would find rest on a day of the week. He said, "Come to Me all you who are heavily burdened and I will give you rest".

 

[listed]

Why do you think His commands are not burdensome for the Christian? Because under the New Covenant, God is the dynamic of His own demands. What was mans "must do" under the Old, is Gods "I Will" under the New. Read Ezekiel 36.

Remember Jesus didn't say you would find rest on a day of the week. He said, "Come to Me all you who are heavily burdened and I will give you rest".

Matt 11:28-30 is very interesting when talking about the Sabbath because the comment is made to people who already were observing the 7th day sabbath.

 

[VictorC]

The Sabbath is part of the ten Commandments, therefore if the ten Commandments were was temporary so likewise the Sabbath.

Fixed your verb to reflect the singular.

That is God's solution, which provides salvation to the Gentiles and entrance into His rest. The Sabbath met the same disposition by the hand of God as the covenant declared from Mount Sinai Moses named the Ten Commandments.

Hebrews 10
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.​

Does your priest give burnt offerings as the Law requires?
No? See Numbers 28:9-10.

Judaism revolves around the first covenant.
Christianity revolves around the new covenant called 'second' in this epistle.
The two are not compatible.

Is thou shall not steal temporary? or thou shall serve no other God?

Non sequitur.

Romans 3
7 For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.​

 

[annier]

The Sabbath is part of the ten Commandments, therefore if the ten Commandments were temporary so likewise the Sabbath.

It seems you did not understand. The Sabbath was first introduced as obedience to gather manna and rest from that task on the seventh day. God was testing them, as like he did Abraham. It was the law of faith.

The Command to keep the Sabbath day holy was different. To gather manna for six days and a double portion on the sixth day is not part of the ten commands. Nor was the original sabbath rest permanent. It only lasted until they entered the promised land. The manna stopped at that time. And of course we see in deut. they had not entered the rest of God.

Is thou shall not steal temporary? or thou shall serve no other God?

What are you thinking here? Do you think that there was no righteous requirements for the previous law and covenants of God?
Moses law was law in ADDITION to the law of faith. At least 430 years prior to the Levitical law of Moses. In other words...Moses law RETAINED prior law not disanulling what was prior.
Gal 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The law informs us that the nations did already have requirements they did not live up to.

Ge 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

Lev 18:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the LORD your God.
3 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.
4 Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the LORD your God.
5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.

A long list of prohibitions continues....... of how the activities of the nations caused them to be spewed out of the land....

24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled
28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

You have it quite backwards....Israel was commanded to keep the same judgement as was among the nations, long before Moses came along.

 

[Elder 111]

Why do you think His commands are not burdensome for the Christian? Because under the New Covenant, God is the dynamic of His own demands. What was mans "must do" under the Old, is Gods "I Will" under the New. Read Ezekiel 36.

Remember Jesus didn't say you would find rest on a day of the week. He said, "Come to Me all you who are heavily burdened and I will give you rest".

So Jesus removes for me the need of worship God only?

 

[Steeno7]

So Jesus removes for me the need of worship God only?

I don't know about you, but for me Jesus hasn't removed my need to worship God, but given me the freedom to worship Him whenever and wherever I may be.

 

[bugkiller]

So Jesus removes for me the need of worship God only?

What is your point? I don't understand how it reltes to the post you quoted.

bugkiller

 

[Elder 111]

I don't know about you, but for me Jesus hasn't removed my need to worship God, but given me the freedom to worship Him whenever and wherever I may be.

When was that never the case!

 

[Elder 111]

What is your point? I don't understand how it reltes to the post you quoted.

bugkiller

The sabbath and all the law are removed (was temporary). That is where the argument has led. Did you not see that?

 

[Steeno7]

When was that never the case!

I agree, you do seem confused.

 

[Cribstyl]

The Sabbath is part of the ten Commandments, therefore if the ten Commandments were temporary so likewise the Sabbath. Is thou shall not steal temporary? or thou shall serve no other God?

God judgment of sin is what's not temporary. The law as a standard of righteousness was temporary.
The questions about the law is asked and answered in scriptures.


Gal 3:19Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people.