Sabbath lie

[Cribstyl]

When God himself says this: Ex 20:11 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. What other time could the Sabbath had been made if not at creation? As confirmed by you the Sabbath was made for man. It could only qualify as such by being instituted at creation.

The scriptures in Genesis say that God blessed and sanctified the seventh day, not the Sabbath day.
Your only concern is to make Ex20:11 and Mark 2:27 support your comments. You will not address the scriptures I presented to support my comments.
Let's look at your so-called truth. ( Why not give the same expository to the texts I presented)

It's an obvious stretch to link these scriptures Elder, the context are not related.
The comparable texts that you should examine closer is the complete Sabbath commandment in Ex20 and Deut 5

In order not to lose you early, lets look at Deut 5 first.
The Sabbath commandment can be outline as such:
A) The Commandment (what you must do)
B)How and when to do it(6days for all labor, rest on 7th)
C) Why to do it


Deut 5:12 ‘Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. (A)


13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. (B)

15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day. (C)
......................................................................................


[Ex 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (A)
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. (B)

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.(C)

You selectively ignore Deut5:15; that being slaves brought out of Egypt as when God first commanded them to keep the Sabbath. (rest from slavery)

In Deut: You were slaves in Egypt therefore(this is why) keep the Sabbath.

The word therefore is the key to understanding that God's rest and the Sabbath are separate issues.
Ex20 simply means: God rested on the seventh day therefore (this is why) He bless the Sabbath day.

The fact that "God rested on the seventh day" is twisted to "the Sabbath was the seventh day in which God rested."

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

The scriptures in Genesis say that God blessed and sanctified the seventh day, not the Sabbath day.

Does Genesis 2:2,3 say that "God the Seventh Day rested"?

It does.

So what else then is the Seventh Day God rested in than God's "Sabbath-Rest Day"?

It is nothing else. "The day The Seventh Day_is_Sabbath of the LORD GOD"... "...is Sabbath Rest DAY of the LORD GOD."

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

The fact that "God rested on the seventh day" is twisted to "the Sabbath was the seventh day in which God rested."

This isn't <twisted>; this is just plain good common sense <fact>.

Why shoot yourself in the foot?

 

[Cribstyl]

Great discussion and excellent expression.

I also want to know why God waited so long to say the Sabbath was created for all men if that is true. I do not think it is true because it directly contradicts Moses. Both can not be correct.

Agreed

 

[Cribstyl]

This isn't <twisted>; this is just plain good common sense <fact>.

Why shoot yourself in the foot?

Moses said to the Children of Israel, The Lord has given you the Sabbath. This was the first Sabbath day noted in the bible..... Prove otherwise.
Exo 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
Ex 16:30So the people rested on the seventh day.

Besides God saying at least 10 times that He gave the Children of Israel the Sabbath, one would have to be brain-dead to deny that God made the Sabbath an exclusive covenant sign with only the Children of Israel. creation Sabbath is a myth that links several scriptures to contradiction comments.


Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Eze 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.


Those who claim that God instituted a creation Sabbath hide from scriptures that contradict their twist.

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Besides God saying at least 10 times that He gave the Children of Israel the Sabbath, one would have to be brain-dead to deny that God made the Sabbath an exclusive covenant sign with only the Children of Israel. creation Sabbath is a myth that links several scriptures to contradiction comments.

This is most illogical statement.

It is one thing to say God gave only Israel his Sabbath ---quite true in itself.

But to extend that to the negation of the Sabbath having been the Seventh Day of God's rest in the beginning is another --- and self-contradicting statement.

If God gave Israel his Sabbath ---which He did even before the Ten Commandments--- He must have had it before He gave it to Israel.

So, nothing you say makes any sense.


This &#8216;only to Israel&#8217; &#8216;argument&#8217; is a very new phenomenon. I have never made a point of it to look out for this novelty in Church history, but I cannot remember that I came across it once (through to my third year Church history).

First encounter happened in internet days; the last few years!

Why was it never used in the old days of scholarship among intellectual giants?

Because of its WEAKNESS; that&#8217;s all. No, more, because of its ridiculousness!

 

[Cribstyl]

This is most illogical statement.

It is one thing to say God gave only Israel his Sabbath ---quite true in itself.

But to extend that to the negation of the Sabbath having been the Seventh Day of God's rest in the beginning is another --- and self-contradicting statement.

If God gave Israel his Sabbath ---which He did even before the Ten Commandments--- He must have had it before He gave it to Israel.

So, nothing you say makes any sense.

The fact that the Sabbath comes every seventh day, does not mean that it began in the context of the seventh day of creation.

Hebrew 4 proves that the first people to be offered God's rest did not enter due to unbelief.
Hebrew 4 say the person who enters God's rest also cease from all his works as God did from His.

Sabbath is work 6days and rest on the 7th. God's rest is an abiding rest with no ending.....no morning or evening.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

It's actually a myth that God created all of creation from being on a planet that did not exist until the 4th day.
To say that; 'God rested with man on earth' is a misunderstanding by many.

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

The fact that the Sabbath comes every seventh day, does not mean that it began in the context of the seventh day of creation.

Hebrew 4 proves that the first people to be offered God's rest did not enter due to unbelief.
Hebrew 4 say the person who enters God's rest also cease from all his works as God did from His.

Sabbath is work 6days and rest on the 7th. God's rest is an abiding rest with no ending.....no morning or evening.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

It's actually a myth that God created all of creation from being on a planet that did not exist until the 4th day.
To say that; 'God rested with man on earth' is a misunderstanding by many.

Re: <<<The fact that the Sabbath comes every seventh day, does not mean that it began in the context of the seventh day of creation.>>>

Denied! Why not? That is the most evident conclusion. Nothing has been recorded throughout the Scriptures of anything that would interrupt or upset the regularity of the Sabbath’s return every seven days since creation. Not if the Scriptures are to be believed.

That the Sabbath Seventh Day of the week reappears in the Scriptures as history without explanation and taken for granted “the Seventh Day is Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD”, I (for one) cannot see any problem with believing <<the fact>> that the Sabbath comes every seventh day, meaning that it began in the context of the Seventh Day of creation. No problem at all …for me in any case.

Re:<<<Hebrew 4 proves that the first people to be offered God's rest did not enter due to unbelief.>>>

Good! Those <<first people>> were Adam and Eve on the very first of Seventh Day Rest-Days of God. So says Hebrews 3:4c expressly : “from the foundation of the world”.

Re: <<<Hebrew 4 say the person who enters God's rest also cease from all his works as God did from His.>>>

Sure. That <person> who entered God's rest, was in fact “Jesus (who) gave them rest (Himself)… HE having entered into His, Own, Rest-as-God in his own.” Hebrews 4:8,10.

Re: <<<Sabbath is work 6days and rest on the 7th>>>

Completely wrong and untrue.
First. The Sabbath is not about man’s work; it is about God’s work—God’s work of Rest… rest in Christ… rest in Christ through Resurrection from the dead… IN THE SABBATH otherwise God never rested seeing He rested not in Christ.

Sabbath is Work NOT the Seventh Day, but rest the Seventh Day “BECAUSE GOD RESTED, THEREFORE hallowed God the Seventh Day” ktl.

Re: <<<God's rest is an abiding rest with no ending.....no morning or evening.>>>

That’s right ---<<God’s rest>>.
“The day The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD” though, is “The DAY The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD”.
Note that the “DAY” is “yom” in the Hebrew. It is not pleonastic.

Re: <<<It's actually a myth that God created all of creation from being on a planet that did not exist until the 4th day.>>>

It’s actually a myth for sure.

Re: <<<To say that; 'God rested with man on earth' is a misunderstanding by many>>>

Why?!
God <rested> = “tabernacled” with man on earth no doubt! In Jesus Christ most definitely! It is no misunderstanding by many… by most Christians. It is the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

 

[Cribstyl]

Re: <<<The fact that the Sabbath comes every seventh day, does not mean that it began in the context of the seventh day of creation.>>>

Denied! Why not? That is the most evident conclusion. Nothing has been recorded throughout the Scriptures of anything that would interrupt or upset the regularity of the Sabbath’s return every seven days since creation. Not if the Scriptures are to be believed.

That the Sabbath Seventh Day of the week reappears in the Scriptures as history without explanation and taken for granted “the Seventh Day is Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD”, I (for one) cannot see any problem with believing <<the fact>> that the Sabbath comes every seventh day, meaning that it began in the context of the Seventh Day of creation. No problem at all …for me in any case.

Re:<<<Hebrew 4 proves that the first people to be offered God's rest did not enter due to unbelief.>>>

Good! Those <<first people>> were Adam and Eve on the very first of Seventh Day Rest-Days of God. So says Hebrews 3:4c expressly : “from the foundation of the world”.

Re: <<<Hebrew 4 say the person who enters God's rest also cease from all his works as God did from His.>>>

Sure. That <person> who entered God's rest, was in fact “Jesus (who) gave them rest (Himself)… HE having entered into His, Own, Rest-as-God in his own.” Hebrews 4:8,10.

Re: <<<Sabbath is work 6days and rest on the 7th>>>

Completely wrong and untrue.
First. The Sabbath is not about man’s work; it is about God’s work—God’s work of Rest… rest in Christ… rest in Christ through Resurrection from the dead… IN THE SABBATH otherwise God never rested seeing He rested not in Christ.

Sabbath is Work NOT the Seventh Day, but rest the Seventh Day “BECAUSE GOD RESTED, THEREFORE hallowed God the Seventh Day” ktl.

Re: <<<God's rest is an abiding rest with no ending.....no morning or evening.>>>

That’s right ---<<God’s rest>>.
“The day The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD” though, is “The DAY The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD”.
Note that the “DAY” is “yom” in the Hebrew. It is not pleonastic.

Re: <<<It's actually a myth that God created all of creation from being on a planet that did not exist until the 4th day.>>>

It’s actually a myth for sure.

Re: <<<To say that; 'God rested with man on earth' is a misunderstanding by many>>>

Why?!
God <rested> = “tabernacled” with man on earth no doubt! In Jesus Christ most definitely! It is no misunderstanding by many… by most Christians. It is the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

WE MUST AGREE TO DISAGREE..... YOUR DENIAL DOES NOT PROVE WHAT SCRIPTURES SAY. YOU WANT US BELIEVE WHAT SCRIPTURES DOES NOT SAY.

 

[Steve Petersen]

If you have ever been a participant in an Erev Shabbat meal, you will have heard the Kiddush for the Sabbath. One element of kiddush is the acknowledgement that the Sabbath is a 'memorial of creation' as well as a 'memorial of our exodus from Egypt.'

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

If you have ever been a participant in an Erev Shabbat meal, you will have heard the Kiddush for the Sabbath. One element of kiddush is the acknowledgement that the Sabbath is a 'memorial of creation' as well as a 'memorial of our exodus from Egypt.'

That is the Bible full.

 

[bugkiller]

This is most illogical statement.

It is one thing to say God gave only Israel his Sabbath ---quite true in itself.

But to extend that to the negation of the Sabbath having been the Seventh Day of God's rest in the beginning is another --- and self-contradicting statement.

If God gave Israel his Sabbath ---which He did even before the Ten Commandments--- He must have had it before He gave it to Israel.

So, nothing you say makes any sense.


This ‘only to Israel’ ‘argument’ is a very new phenomenon. I have never made a point of it to look out for this novelty in Church history, but I cannot remember that I came across it once (through to my third year Church history).

First encounter happened in internet days; the last few years!

Why was it never used in the old days of scholarship among intellectual giants?

Because of its WEAKNESS; that’s all. No, more, because of its ridiculousness!

No its more than a few thousand years old. How long before Jesus was Moses?

bugkiller

 

[Elder 111]

Great discussion and excellent expression.

I also want to know why God waited so long to say the Sabbath was created for all men if that is true. I do not think it is true because it directly contradicts Moses. Both can not be correct.

Jesus said it was made for man. When was everything made that was made?

 

[Cribstyl]

The reasons given WHY to keep the Sabbath in the ten commandments

Ex 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Commentary should say: because God rested on the seventh day, this is why He blessed and made the Sabbath day holy.
Commentary goes off track by saying that Sabbath was commanded at creation.



Deut 5:15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
Commentary should say: Because the Children of Israel were slave in Egypt this is why God commanded you to keep the Sabbath.

We can see the "WHY" in Ex 20's 4th commandment addressing what God did at creation and Why God blessed and sanctified the Sabbath.

We can see the "WHY" in Deut5's 4th commandment addressing what God did in Egypt and "Why" the Children of Israel are commanded to keep the Sabbath.

Our comment should give understanding on what the scripture say, not what is not said. Contradictions should be quickly abandoned.

 

[Elder 111]

Jesus broke the Sabbath.The pharisees said it was unlawful, and they did not say fence law unlawful, and they knew the law. So what does Jesus say in reply?

He, Jesus, used Davids unlawful act, to validate His unlawful act too. Why did Jesus use David's unlawful act in his reply?





Luke 6:1 On a Sabbath,[a] while he was going through the grainfields, his disciples plucked and ate some heads of grain, rubbing them in their hands. 2 But some of the Pharisees said, “Why are you doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath?” 3 And Jesus answered them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: 4 how he entered the house of God and took and ate the bread of the Presence, which is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those with him?” 5 And he said to them, “The Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”

Jesus broke His own law? How can He be without sin then?

 

[Frogster]

Jesus said it was made for man. When was everything made that was made?

but who were the "man" (men) he was talking about, what time period did Jesus mean?

 

[Frogster]

Jesus broke His own law? How can He be without sin then?

he is lord of the sabbath, it's in the passage.

In the OT God said he would not justify the wicked, but in the NT he says he does in Rom 4, so he can annul or do as he wants.

 

[Cribstyl]

Elder's game is in his questions. His return serve is never direct answers but rather more questions. He's got a million of em.

 

[Frogster]

Crib, you are a good poster, and you are smart!

 

[Elder 111]

Leaving out verse 28 shows that you have no idea Jesus was declaring His divinity - He is Lord of the Sabbath because the Sabbath was made for man, and doesn't pertain to God. The Sabbath wasn't made for God. It can't be found in the creation account.

It was made for man at creation and is part of the creation week. Sabbath/seventh day.