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Featured Rev 11- 1st 3.5 years of Final 7 not a time of peace, after all?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Julian King, Dec 15, 2018.

  1. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Plainly the last seven years before Jesus Returns, is divided into 2 halves. Daniel 9:27 This peace treaty; made between the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, in all of the holy Land and the leader of the One World Govt, both formed soon after the Sixth Seal Day of the Lord's wrath; WILL be peaceful for the first half.
    Only when the OWG leader, by now revealed as the Anti-Christ, comes and conquers them and sits in the Temple; that the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls of the Great Tribulation take place.
    Some of the Christian citizens of Beulah will be taken to a place of safety on earth, Revelation 12:14 and the rest must remain; Revelation 12:17

    The extra days of 1290 and 1335 as mentioned in Daniel 12, are extensions of 30 days and 75 days after Jesus Returns, for decreed celebrations, like Hanukkah for the re-dedication of the Temple.

    I disagree with Douggg; all the time periods of 1260 days, 42 months and 3.5 years in Rev, are for the last half of the 7 years.
     
  2. Julian King

    Julian King New Member

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    When do you have the 2300 days as ending, and what event do you think marks their start?
     
  3. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    The 2300 evenings and mornings in Daniel 8:14 are actually 1150 days, as it refers to the sacrifices and offerings being suppressed.
    That 1150 days is the exact time that Antiochus the Fourth Epiphanes, [A4E] had control of the Temple, in 167 to 164 BC. So that prophecy is past history.
     
  4. Bruce Leiter

    Bruce Leiter Member

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    I used to agree with the "non-millennial" position (no millennium at all). Then, I attended pre-millennial churches and thought their ideas biblical, but then learned the a-millennial position (the present age is the millennium). That variety left me a "pan-millennial," it'll all pan out! Finally, I attended seminary, where the New Testament course taught five major interpretations of Revelation.

    I share the following as the most probable one in my thinking that agrees with the full context of Rev. 11:

    (1) Revelation is inspired apocalyptic literature. John chose that figurative kind to hide his message from the Roman authorities and Caesar, who had put him on the Island of Patmos.

    (2) After chapters 1-3, the book is a series of visions each one of which figuratively depicts the period between Jesus' first and second comings (4-7, 8-11, 12-14, 15-19, 20-22). You'll notice that each vision ends with different details about the judgment day, except for the last one. Chapter 11 depicts figuratively the evil world system ("beast") attacking the church ("two witnesses" by the "mouth of two" in the rest of the Bible). Then, at the end at Jesus' second coming, praise for God and signs of judgment happen (verse 19). I believe that the 3 1/2 days and years refer to Elijah's famine--God's judgment on the earth.

    (3) Since all of the major interpretations have difficulties, even though the one I shared with you has the least, I think that we should wait to find out how God will make it all "pan out"!
     
  5. Julian King

    Julian King New Member

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    In Daniel 8:17, Gabriel tells Daniel that the vision is for the end-times. Since he then goes on to explain that the events up to verse 7 will be fulfilled before Jesus was born, I think it's clear that it's the 2300 Days part of the prophecy that is 'for the end-times'. What do you think?

    Also, the 2300 Days mentions sacrifices ceasing and a desolating abomination, which are also mentioned in the 1290 Days and Daniel's 70th Week, one of which you mentioned earlier as being an end-time period, which suggests that the 2300 Days period is also an end-time period.
     
  6. Julian King

    Julian King New Member

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    You claim that Revelation 12:6 and 12:14 are speaking of 2 different times when the Woman fled into the wilderness, the first being for the 1st 3.5 years of the 7 and the second being for the 2nd 3.5 years of the 7. But for her to flee into the wilderness a 2nd time, it means that she must have returned from the wilderness after she fled into it the 1st time, so that she could flee into it a 2nd time. Do you have a verse that tells us when she made this return from the wilderness, because I still think she only fled once into the wilderness (for the 2nd 3.5 years of the 7), and that Rev 12:6 and 12:14 are referring to the same event.
     
  7. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    As just a general rule of thumb, prophecy is deliberately ambiguous at specific points because it can't tell the reader what choice to make - only that a choice will have to be made. (That's what the other parts of the Bible are for.)

    The 1290 days start with Trumpets 1-4 (the 1 day judgment upon Babylon) and the 5th Trumpet's locusts. (which both start on that particular day) (The locusts of the 5th Trumpet & Joel 1 cut off the daily sacrifices) (Daniel 12:11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

    Joel 1
    2Hear this, you elders;
    give ear, all inhabitants of the land!
    Has such a thing happened in your days,
    or in the days of your fathers?
    3Tell your children of it,
    and let your children tell their children,
    and their children to another generation.

    4What the cutting locust left,
    the swarming locust has eaten.
    What the swarming locust left,
    the hopping locust has eaten,
    and what the hopping locust left,
    the destroying locust has eaten.


    5Awake, you drunkards, and weep,
    and wail, all you drinkers of wine,
    because of the sweet wine,
    for it is cut off from your mouth.

    6For a nation has come up against my land,
    powerful and beyond number;
    its teeth are lions’ teeth,
    and it has the fangs of a lioness.
    [...]
    9The grain offering and the drink offering are cut off
    from the house of the Lord.
    The priests mourn,
    the ministers of the Lord.

    Now, why are the locusts around for 5 months? (Revelation 9:10) (remember that these 5 months are the starting point for the 1290 days)

    5 Bible lunar months are 147.5 days (29.5 x 5 = 147.5)
    147 days + 1143 days = 1290 days

    Daniel 8:14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”

    That 2300 'evenings & mornings' are 1150 days. 1143 + 7 days to 'reconsecrate the sanctuary' = 1150 days. (Ezekiel 43:26)

    Remember that at the 6th Trumpet, there is the 200 million army which is derived from Psalm 68:17 (translations will vary) The chariots of God are twice ten thousand, thousands upon thousands; the Lord is among them; Sinai is now in the sanctuary.

    Basically, it's form is derived from Daniel 9:26-27
    The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.​
    that word 'destroy' (H 7843) is better translated as 'corrupt': see Daniel 9:26 Interlinear: And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end is with a flood, and till the end is war, determined are desolations. and
    Strong's Hebrew: 7843. שָׁחַת (shachath) -- perhaps to go to ruin

    Apollyon will corrupt/ spiritually destroy the city (Trumpets 1-4 & 5) then 5 months later the sanctuary (6th Trumpet at the 'sanctuary' for 1143 days). Apollyon is imitating what Jesus will do.

    As to the '7 years', the 1290th day is actually the 'middle of 7 years' (from the 70th anniversary of Israel on the Hebrew calendar ending on the 77th anniversary on the solar calendar) (this is on a different parallel timeline track: I go into it all here
    Overview of Revelation new pdf-1-3.pdf
    Overview of Revelation new pdf-4-18.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    It mentions them as laying in the streets for 3.5 days because their Ministry was 3.5 years (1260 days) so the Wicked of the world rejoice for 3.5 days, just like the fake peace had them deceived for 3.5 years, it's nothing but symmetry by God. Then just like the 3.5 years of fake peace, the Two-witnesses will rise up to Heaven, just before the 3rd Woe (7th Trumpet sounds) befalls the wicked.

    You see, there can't be 1260 days from the 2nd Woe (6th Trumpet) to the 3rd Woe (7th Trumpet) which ends with the 7th Vial. The First Seal starts in the Middle of the week, so out of 2520 days of the 7 year tribulation period (70th week) there is thus only 1260 days left starting with the First Seal being opened !! We thus have the 7 Seals, the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Vials, the last being the 7th Trumpet all wrapped into one or the 3rd Woe. So how do we get all of this and still have 1260 days left when the 2nd Woe comes ? We only had 1260 days left when the First Seal was opened !

    We must fit it together in the proper time frame, I have been telling Douggg this for 2 years and he still doesn't see it, so no worries, just study, and seek the truth, God will reveal it at His own time brother. OH....By the way, welcome to the forum, I did not see it was your first post. Greetings from the USA my fellow Christian Brit. Godspeed.

    There is no 2300 days, the Hebrew has 2 Words behind DAYS, one means Mornings and the other means Evenings. So it's 2300 Evening and Morning Oblations or prayers. See Daniel 9:21, Gabriel came unto Daniel at the evening Oblation (prayer time/a tribute unto God). As a matter of fact the EXACT SAME TWO WORD(S) are used at the end of the chapter, and the translation is translated the Prophecy of the Evening and Morning (LOL at the English translators) WATCH:

    (KJV) Dan. 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning(Same words as verse 14) which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

    From my Hebrew Massoretic Bible: Below.

    Dan 8:14 And he said 559 z8799 unto x413 me, Unto x5704 two thousand 505 and three 7969 hundred 3967 days; 6153 1242 then shall the sanctuary 6944 be cleansed. 6663 z8738

    Dan 8:26 And the vision 4758 of the evening 6153 and the morning 1242 which x834 was told 559 z8738 [is] true: 571 wherefore shut thou up 5640 z8798 x859 the vision; 2377 for x3588 it [shall be] for many 7227 days. 3117

    Notice how verse 26 speaks of it as the VISION of the Evening and Morning but verse 14 calls it 2300 days instead of 2300 Evening and Morning Oblations ?

    It is 1150 Days or 2300 Evening and Morning Oblations/Tributes to God/Prayers unto God that are missed. So it is not 2300 days brother, thus it fits with the Beasts 1260 days in which he rules, which is a requirement, of course.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As per the 1260, 1290 and 1335, think each represents a "SET NUMBER OF DAYS" until the Second Coming of Jesus.

    The 1260 is thus 1260 days until all of these wonders end with Jesus' Second Coming. The 1290 happens thus before the 1260, it is the AoD and is the sign to the repented Jews that they need to Flee Judea, God gives them a sign just before the Beast takes over, the False Prophet (A High Priest like unto Jason under Antiochus Epiphanes) orders an Image of the E.U. President to be placed in the Temple of God. Jason tried to Hellenize the Jews, this guy will try to make the Jews worship a man !! Jason had his own brother, a pious High Priest named Onias III killed by bribing Antiochus.

    So the 1290 comes before the 1260, because it is 1290 days from the Second Coming which ends all of these Wonders. Therefore the 1335 is some sort of blessing that comes 1335 days before the Second Coming ends all of the Wonders, so what can it be ? Well Malachi 4:5-6 says that Elijah is sent back to turn Israel back unto God BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord. So that is the blessing IMHO.

    1335 Days before the Second Coming, the Two-witnesses show up, blessing Israel.

    1290 Days before the Second Coming the False Prophet places an Image/Idol in the Temple.

    1260 Days before the Second Coming the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem to become the Beast.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  9. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    It is perfectly rational because the Beast has to obey, God.

    Rev. 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

    God Protects them via the Holy Spirit FIRE.......Sword of the mouth.

    Once their Ministry is up they are killed. Once Jesus' Ministry was up he was killed also. Jesus could have called a legion of Angels or slipped out of their hands via him being God, like he did at other times. The Two-witnesses have a 1260 day Ministry, when it is finished then and only then will they die. This is basic math, an engineer should be able to figure this out brother.

    They DIE at the 2nd Woe, how much clearer can it be that they die nigh to when the Beast dies. I see your problem on the timing, you find out how you think Revelation unfolds, then you try to fit the time(s) or Chronological Order to it, it doesn't work that way brother, try fitting the events to the Chronological Order, then you will get it, it will all work out.

    No it isn't the first part of the 70th Week. They DIE at the 2nd Woe. This is basic math man. He becomes the Beast when He conquers Jerusalem at the 1260 Event. The Two-witnesses show up at the 1335 Event. The False Prophet places the AoD in the Temple at the 1290 Event.

    Apollyon ascends out of the Bottomless Pit at the 1st Woe and kills them at the 2nd Woe.

    So I have the timing down perfect. You have been confused on this for a long while as per the timing, and about the fact that the Anti-Christ is accepted by Israel as their King, no scripture says nor implies this at all brother.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  10. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    It's the same event.............................your instincts are correct here.
     
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Julian, in Revelation 12:6, the Jews flee into the wilderness as soon as the Abomination of desolation image is placed in the temple. The two witnesses make it possible because they battle with the beast.

    That window of opportunity lasts 75 days until the two witnesses are killed. On a 7 year time line, it can be determined that 1335 days before Jesus returns to end the 7 years -
    2520-1335 = day 1185 on the timeline that the image will be placed in the temple.

    Day 1 - the confirmation of the covenant
    Day 1185 - the AoD image placed in the temple, the Jews begin to flee.
    Day 1260 - the two witnesses are killed.
    Day 1263.5 - the two witnesses ascend, leaving this world

    Then the war in (the second) heaven, Satan cast down to earth. Having a time, times, half time left during which he persecutes the woman... which are the Jews who did not flee in time.

    Over that time, times, half time period - the Jews will continue to flee, but it won't be so easy.

    In Revelation 12:6, the Jews will flee because the beast will be prime adversary as the two witnesses battle him. The false prophet will have had the people of the world make an image of him, probably out of gold (my guess), something inanimate.

    In Revelation 12:12-17, things take a twist. It is Satan who at that time, restricted to earth, who makes war on the remanent of her seed (them who did not flee to the wilderness in time).

    Now getting to the inanimate image of the beast. The false prophet conducts a seemingly miracle - which the image comes to life. The miracle will be reinforced because the people of the world themselves make the image - and will know that it has no life in it, in and of itself.

    What makes the images come to life and demand worship - is that it will be incarnated by Satan, after he has been cast down to earth. Who in Revelation 13:4, it says the world worships him.

    The reason I am very confident this is what will happen is because in Ezekiel 28:17-19, God is going to cast Satan down to earth. Then God has fire come from the midst of him (Satan) and bring him to ashes as the world will be astonished as they see it happen.

    We have in Revelation 19, at Jesus's return, the beast and the false prophet cast alive into the lake of fire. And then the armies gathered to fight against Jesus, destroyed.

    Satan is bound in chains and cast in the bottomless pit, as a lone angel descends to carry out the task. Maybe Michael. We don't know for sure.

    The question is how does Satan suddenly appear to be bound by chains? And what happens to the living image of the beast, that demands everyone worship it?

    What I think happens is that the entire scene takes place at the temple mount, surrounded by the armies of the world, with the beast, the false prophet, and the image on the elevated courtyard.

    Jesus by the brightness of his coming, melts away the outer facade of the image - exposing to everyone, Satan in his true self, the image brought to ashes. It is then that the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire.

    The armies destroyed by Jesus's words, and Satan exposed and there on the temple mount, the lone angel binds him in chains and he is carried away to the bottomless pit.

    _____________________________________________________________________

    That was rather long winded - but the point being it is initially the beast in Revelation 12:6 as the adversary making the Jews flee. In Revelation 12:14, it is Satan as the noted adversary - cloaked in the image (a statue) of the beast, causing the Jews to flee, if they can.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The timeframes given, all denote a major milestone event that takes place.

    Day 1 - the confirmation of the covenant
    Day 1185 - the AoD image placed in the temple, the Jews begin to flee.
    Day 1260 - the two witnesses are killed.
    Day 1263.5 - the two witnesses ascend, leaving this world

    1290 days counting from when the AoD is placed in the temple - the events of the sixth seal take place. The heavens part and the world sees Jesus before the throne of God, prepared to carry out revenge for them martyred during the great tribulation.

    It will send terror into the hearts of the wicked in the world.

    So Day 1185 + 1290 days = Day 2475 on the timeline. Which the kings of the earth then have 45 days to assemble their armies at Armageddon to make war on Jesus.
    ______________________________________________________________________

    The 2300 days in Daniel 8, are the timeframe from when the animal sacrifices begin again, stopped, the worship of the one True God stopped in the temple, until Jesus returns.

    So 2520 days (the length of the 7 years) - 2300 = Day 220 that the animal sacrifices will begin again. Included on the timeline, it looks like this.

    Day 1 - the confirmation of the covenant.
    Day 220 - the animal sacrifices started again. (2300 days before Jesus returns).
    Day 1185 - the AoD image placed in the temple, the Jews begin to flee.
    Day 1260 - the two witnesses are killed.
    Day 1263.5 - the two witnesses ascend, leaving this world
    Day 2475 - the world sees Jesus before the throne of God. (Day 1185 + 1290 days).
    Day 2520 - Jesus descends to earth and executes judgement on them gathered to make war on him.
     
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    And what exactly are you saying the beast does to obey God?
     
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The second woe is that a third of the world's population at the time will be killed by the huge army.

    .... you are thinking that the world takes time to celebrate and exchange presents over the death of the two witnesses, then ? really? Not rational, RT.
    ____________________________________________________________

    John in Revelation 11 is not linking the killing of a third of mankind to the deaths of the two witnesses. They are completely separate events.

    Revelation 11 opens with John being told about the two witnesses. At the same time, John sees it all taking place right up to the great earthquake, killing 7000 in Jerusalem, in Revelation 11:13.

    Then it becomes time for the 7th trumpet to sound. In the days of the 7th trumpet, the mystery of God will be completed.

    Which that mystery is the Kingdom of God becomes the ruling kingdom here on earth, and Satan's kingdom of mystery babylon the great gets destroyed.

    John has already been shown the second woe of a third of the population of the earth killed. Being shown that woe is past, and now John was about to see what the third woe will be, in Revelation 12, of Satan being cast down to earth, and given only a time, times, half time.

    12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    The three woes are:
    1. The tormenting locust
    2. The killing of a third of the earth's population by the huge army
    3. Satan being cast down to earth, having great wrath, knowing that his time is short.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
  15. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    He is forbidden from killing the Two-witnesses along with all his minions until their 1260 day Ministry comes to pass.

    An Angelic Army kills these 1/3 or about 1.5 Billion people on earth. Read Rev. ch. 9,it specifically says it is from a PLAGUE OF God !! Thus the Two-witnesses are prating down all of the Plagues on mankind, thus when the DIE Mankind will indeed be happy, their tormentors have just died.

    Rev. 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. 19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

    20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

    There is no 200 Million Man Army, it an Angelic Army of horsemen bringing Plagues to mankind. And since the Two-Witnesses are given the power to pray down all manner of Plagues against Mankind, why wouldn't the world rejoice when they die ?

    Rev. 11:6 These (Two-witnesses) have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

    Of course the celebrate when these two men they see as the one tormenting them night and day die brother !! The 2nd Woe happens........they die......Symbolically laying dead in the streets for 3.5 days (that is God mocking them with his Symbolism. ) Then the 7th Trumpet blows and the 3rd Woe starts. After the 7 Vials, which is the 3rd Woe, Jesus will reign as shown in Rev. 11, which happens in Rev. 16:19.

    See the 2nd Woe in Rev. 9 !! Then look at Rev. ch. 11, the Two witnesses die at the 2nd Woe. John wrote the book of Revelation as given unto him by Jesus. They are LINKED because the 2nd Woe is the 2nd Woe !! Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation, just like I have been telling you, which is why you can't get the timing down brother. Only when you understand this will you be able to get the proper Chronological Order of the book of Revelation down pat.

    Rev. 11 is about the Two-witnesses Ministry. They are what is meant by MEASURING the Temple and the Altar, they bring Israel unto Repentance, the Gentiles tread the outer court or those not of God for 42 months. Those who repent are protected, the outer court are not protected. Its Metaphoric in nature. The 7th Trumpet us the 3rd Woe, we know that because in Rev. ch. 8 it says the THREE TRUMPETS LEFT are the THREE WOES !! Boom. Rev. 11 is not a part of the Chronological Order, the 7th Trumpet is ALL of the Vials of Rev. 16 !! So that is the Orderm Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation. I guess I am going to have to write a book, that way I can just Copy and paste each time.................

    I have been telling you for a couple of years now, that the 3rd Woe has ZERO to do with Rev. chapter 12 and you just ignore that fact brother. Rev. 8 tells us that the 3 Woes are the THREE LAST TRUMPETS, and you just refuse to receive it.

    So after the Four Trumpets of Rev. ch. 8, we are told this BELOW:

    Rev. 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    We are told the last THREE TRUMPETS are the Three Woes !! So why do you have the 3rd Woe as being in Rev. 12 ? The First Woe is Apollyon being released. The 2nd Woe is a 200 Million Angelic Army that slats a 1/3 of Mankind. We see it again in Rev. 11, and see the Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe. Then in Rev. 11 we see the 7th Trumpet blown, or SOUNDS, that is the 3rd Woe, but it happens during Rev. ch. 16, the 3rd Woe is ALL SEVEN VIALS !!

    Take that in !! Its factual brother, as per the Rev. ch. 8 Scriptures. Rev. 12 has zero to do with the Plagues/Woes of God. It has all about the Dragon, the Woman (Israel) and Jesus.

    This is bad Eschatology brother, just because it says Woe.............Doesn't mean its one of the THREE Woes !! Follow the THREE TRUMPETS !! Like Rev. 8 tells you to do.

    The Three Woes are:
    1.) Apollyon and his Demon hordes.
    2.) An Angelic Army slaying a 1/3 of the Wicked men of earth.
    3.) Rev. chapter 16, the 7 Vials are the 3rd Woe.

    God Bless............
     
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    He is not obeying God by not killing the two witnesses earlier. It is simply that he will be unable to.
     
  17. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    RT, I highlighted part of your text.

    It does not say the three trumpets left are the three woes.

    Here is what it says...

    13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    It is saying when the three trumpets are sounded - the woes take place. It is not saying that the three trumpets themselves are the three woes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  18. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    You are claiming that the four angels bound in the river Euphrates - are angels of God? And the army itself are angels?

    It is not describing plagues, but warfare of a modern army. It is talking about tanks, artillery, aircraft, helicopters, guns. The kings of the east will march to the middle east as the Euphrates dries up, releasing the four angels, seducing the kings ofthe east to do so. A third of the earth's population will be between them and Israel will be killed.

    18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

    19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

    _____________________________________________________________

    Verse 20-21 is talking about all of the trumpet judgements combined.

    20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

    21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
     
  19. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

    +383
    Protestant
    Married
    It said NO MAN can harm them..........Thus the Beast and Apollyon are forbidden by God from touching them, see Job.
    Yes it does brother.......

    Rev. 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

    13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    Can you not understand the Olde English KJV brother....I know its hard but it's not that hard. Woe, woe, woe......BY REASON.......of the other THREE TRUMPETS........Which are yet to sound.

    In other words, the Woe, woe, woe will come from the last three Trumpets when they are sounded ............BY THAT VERY REASON !! Lets try the Holman Version (HCSB)

    Rev. 8:13 I looked again and heard an eagle flying high overhead, crying out in a loud voice, “Woe! Woe! Woe to those who live on the earth, because(BY REASON) of the remaining trumpet blasts that the three angels are about to sound!

    Rev. 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit............................

    12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

    13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

    This is the 2nd Woe !! Rev. 11 is not a part of the Chronological Order of Revelation. The Next Trumpet that blows brings the 3rd Woe, which is all 7 Vials of chapter 16, we see it in Rev. 11 just like we see the 2nd Woe that we just saw in Rev. 9, that's because Rv. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation, as is Rev. 12 and 13, if you study this, you could see it.

    The 7th Trumpet blown in chapter 11 is nothing but the 7 Vials in Rev. 16. Thus the 3rd Woe shown in Rev. 11 happens in ch. 16. When you understand this it will open the BoR up all the way brother.

    Of course they are, they are Bound for an APPOINTED TIME at that place, its Metaphoric in nature! Study it brother. FACTS.

    Wrong brother, the very scriptures stated it was PLAGUES.......The Armies have the exact same colors as the Breastplates of the High Priests. The Demons IN Woe #1 had Breastplates of Iron, these are 200 Million Angelic Beings. It has ZERO to do with the Kings of the East which is in chapter 16.

    Read verse 20...........it is called PLAGUES and PLAGUES are of God !! The Demon Hordes in Woe #1 were not allowed to kill, the Angelic Army does slay these wicked men however.

    Nope brother............you have dodged my every point, with a new point.

    The 200 Million were never real Humans, that was another tale of Men's Traditions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  20. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,675
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    So in your logic, you think when the beast does kill the two witnesses he is obeying God to do so, then?

    The beast is not able to kill the two witnesses before their 1260 days end. He is not doing so out of obedience to God. He simply will be unable to.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
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