Repentance?

[Faulty]

Is there some reason you addressed Dids as me?

I am not Didaskalos. And he is not me.

but you look so much alike...

 

[Ajax 777]

but you look so much alike...

Blast, Balance, you must've seen through my ruse!

 

[Faulty]

Blast, Balance, you must've seen through my ruse!

That would be a a dream come true for Balance.

I don't argue with Jim enough to be Balance, plus he has something like 56 kids and I value my sanity too much for that.

 

[Ajax 777]

That would be a a dream come true for Balance.

Okay...but I caught you red-handed, GrapeGirl!

I don't argue with Jim enough to be Balance...

HAH!!!

Bet you thought I was gonna get into the differences
between myself and Dids, didn'tcha?

...plus he has something like 56 kids and I value my sanity too much for that.

Me too. I won't go above my 55-kid limit, either.

 

[JimB]

Jimbo, you use red herring all the time, I wonder if you really know what it means.

*****

red herring noun 15th century
1: a herring cured by salting and slow smoking to a dark brown color
2: [from the practice of drawing a red herring across a trail to confuse hunting dogs]: something that distracts attention from the real issue (Merriam-Webster)

What do you think it means?

 

[Svt4Him]

red herring noun 15th century
1: a herring cured by salting and slow smoking to a dark brown color
2: [from the practice of drawing a red herring across a trail to confuse hunting dogs]: something that distracts attention from the real issue (Merriam-Webster)

What do you think it means?

I think it means you can't answer the question and have not found anything in TB current situation that he needs to apologize for. Great debate Jimbo.

 

[map4]

I have learned one thing...I sure am thankful for my pastor!!

He lives what he preaches and sets an example for us. He makes it easy to respect him. And he also respects others.

He loves Jesus more than anything and it shows in his actions and his words. His love for others shows also.

I thank God for him and his wife. I trust them because they have shown they are trustworthy.

Praise God for Godly leaders led by the Holy Spirit!

 

[JimfromOhio]

I think it means you can't answer the question and have not found anything in TB current situation that he needs to apologize for. Great debate Jimbo.

I am with Jim on this. People is looking for leadership, both moral and spiritual that hidden sins betrayed many. Only in exposing the sin, then repentance and forgiveness, can healing begin. Restoration for leadership is another issue.

This pass week, many comments regarding discernment and lack of leadership accountability in here have caused me to be very concerned about fellowship in CF. I have been thinking alot lately.

 

[RhemaWarrior]

I think it means you can't answer the question and have not found anything in TB current situation that he needs to apologize for. Great debate Jimbo.

Scripturally who is he supposed to repent to, and what is he supposed to repent for?

 

[Ajax 777]

Scripturally who is he supposed to repent to...

To God.

...and what is he supposed to repent for?

For testifying falsely, for staging fake healings,
for helping the enemy to scatter the flock
by making merchandise of them, for teaching false doctrine,
for taking his stand on visions he has seen instead of the Word of God...
and many other wrongs.

 

[RhemaWarrior]

To God.



For testifying falsely, for staging fake healings,
for helping the enemy to scatter the flock
by making merchandise of them, for teaching false doctrine,
for taking his stand on visions he has seen instead of the Word of God...
and many other wrongs.

I am glad you know so much so I can tell the ones that were healed in my church; you know the ones that just didn’t have a head ache but physical deformities that are NOT there anymore, that they helped him stage it.
And since my church has grown by over 1/3 because there has been a fresh fire in my church.
I guess you can say anyone you don’t agree with is teaching false doctrine.
And as far as his stand on visions seen instead of the Word of God I don’t know where you are going there, but Ryan that teaches on his staff is pretty solid. I personally think he is more of an evangelist.

Many other wrongs????? You still haven’t said anything to me yet.

 

[Ajax 777]

I am glad you know so much so I can tell the ones that were healed in my church; you know the ones that just didn’t have a head ache but physical deformities that are there anymore, that they helped him stage it.

Okay, well...it's not about what I know or don't know, but about what the Word of God says.

Why are you giving credit to Todd Bentley?

If your church members were healed, as you say, then you should be
giving the glory and the thanks to One and One only.
Your church members being healed has no bearing whatsoever
on the fruit Todd Bentley clearly bore.

If your church members were genuinely healed, then it was because God genuinely did it
and most likely would have done it EVEN IF YOU HADN'T GONE TO LAKELAND.

There were many falsified reports of healings, and other such abuse;
many unpopular reports have substantiated it, but people nowadays
choose the bliss of head-in-the-sand ignorance rather than to
diligently pursue the truth as the Bereans did.

And since my church has grown by over 1/3 because there has been a fresh fire in my church.

See my above response.

It is God Who gives the increase.

I guess you can say anyone you don’t agree with is teaching false doctrine.

No, but I can say anyone whose doctrine doesn't agree with Holy Writ is teaching false doctrine.

And as far as his stand on visions seen instead of the Word of God I don’t know where you are going there...

Of course you don't. He deleted from his website and began a hush campaign
against it shortly after people started voicing their concerns about it.

He said that God told him not to preach Jesus,
but to instead preach an angel of mammon named Emma.

In other words, God said not to preach the Gospel,
but to preach magical money from the skies.

...but Ryan that teaches on his staff is pretty solid. I personally think he is more of an evangelist.

You didn't, in your query, name "Ryan that teaches on his staff," did you?
You asked what Todd Bentley did that he needed to repent of,
so I spoke about Todd Bentley in my response to you.

Many other wrongs????? You still haven’t said anything to me yet.

Of course I did. You just, like everyone else who thinks truth should take a backseat to sensation, refuse to address it.
But if I hadn't, as you retort, said anything to you yet, then what was your previous response for?

 

[RhemaWarrior]

See I don't know where you are getting your information from, not only was I there at the revival but many of my friends have gone.
1st of all we do give God and not Todd the Glory.
2nd the people I am talking about that were healed by God, it happend at the revival.
3rd if you are going to go with doctrine be specific at what was said and when.
4th multiple times T.B gave all the credit to Jesus and said it has nothing to do with him, that anyone could take the pulpit and it continue. He was saying as long a Jesus was at the helm.

How do I know these things?
Not because I read them on the internet,
Not because my pastor told me a story.
BUT I WAS THERE!

First I went there because I was unsure if there was a move of God going on or not. When I got there and everyone was worshiping God for 3 hours before anyone spoke, and prayed 30 minuites before worship. That spoke volumes to me. If you told me I was gong to a worship service for 3 hours, I don't know if I would have wanted to go. It has been a long time since I have been in a real worship service. Not that people don't worship God in church. But man there were so many people hungry for God not Todd. As far as Todd goes, if he did something wrong against his wife, he needs to repent to God and her.

If he comes to find out he is speaking some kind of false doctrine, ya he needs to repent to the body he was addressing. If you are going to say false doctrine everyone one CF that does not agree with what your doctrine is must repent. You could be wrong in some areas yourself. Heck I could be wrong in some areas, but you don't think you are and I don't think I am one of us should repent. Which one? you say I do, I say you do? Who is correct? God might say we both need to. He might say your both wrong in some pet areas.

So when talking about false doctrine be specific and give scripture.

Because the false doctrine thing is like calling the fire dept and saying fire and hangning up. If they don't have caller ID your in trouble.

 

[ARBITER01]

I have learned one thing...I sure am thankful for my pastor!!

He lives what he preaches and sets an example for us. He makes it easy to respect him. And he also respects others.

He loves Jesus more than anything and it shows in his actions and his words. His love for others shows also.

I thank God for him and his wife. I trust them because they have shown they are trustworthy.

Praise God for Godly leaders led by the Holy Spirit!

I'm with you on that, I am way more appreciative of my pastor now over recent events.

My church is very small, but the spiritual growth I'm receiving from his preaching is completely off the charts. It is an absolute joy to find someone who The Holy Spirit is allowed to minister through to the congregation.

 

[JimfromOhio]

See I don't know where you are getting your information from, not only was I there at the revival but many of my friends have gone.
1st of all we do give God and not Todd the Glory.
2nd the people I am talking about that were healed by God, it happend at the revival.
3rd if you are going to go with doctrine be specific at what was said and when.
4th multiple times T.B gave all the credit to Jesus and said it has nothing to do with him, that anyone could take the pulpit and it continue. He was saying as long a Jesus was at the helm.

How do I know these things?
Not because I read them on the internet,
Not because my pastor told me a story.
BUT I WAS THERE!

First I went there because I was unsure if there was a move of God going on or not. When I got there and everyone was worshiping God for 3 hours before anyone spoke, and prayed 30 minuites before worship. That spoke volumes to me. If you told me I was gong to a worship service for 3 hours, I don't know if I would have wanted to go. It has been a long time since I have been in a real worship service. Not that people don't worship God in church. But man there were so many people hungry for God not Todd. As far as Todd goes, if he did something wrong against his wife, he needs to repent to God and her.

If he comes to find out he is speaking some kind of false doctrine, ya he needs to repent to the body he was addressing. If you are going to say false doctrine everyone one CF that does not agree with what your doctrine is must repent. You could be wrong in some areas yourself. Heck I could be wrong in some areas, but you don't think you are and I don't think I am one of us should repent. Which one? you say I do, I say you do? Who is correct? God might say we both need to. He might say your both wrong in some pet areas.

So when talking about false doctrine be specific and give scripture.

Because the false doctrine thing is like calling the fire dept and saying fire and hangning up. If they don't have caller ID your in trouble.

Jesus said in Matthew 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Andrew Murray have said "Self is the root, the branches, the tree, of all the evil of our fallen state". A humbled Christian is a Christian with flaws which humbles them that is more useful to God than hypocrite action that puffs them up. I am reminded of this quote by D.L Moody, "Character is what you are in the dark".

 

[Ajax 777]

0

Jesus said in Matthew 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Andrew Murray have said "Self is the root, the branches, the tree, of all the evil of our fallen state". A humbled Christian is a Christian with flaws which humbles them that is more useful to God than hypocrite action that puffs them up. I am reminded of this quote by D.L Moody, "Character is what you are in the dark".

Apparently, Jim, this man seems to think that having been there is more important than judging by the fruits.

These people seem to think it necessary to be a criminal in order to judge the crime.

 

[JimB]

See I don't know where you are getting your information from, not only was I there at the revival but many of my friends have gone.
1st of all we do give God and not Todd the Glory.
2nd the people I am talking about that were healed by God, it happend at the revival.
3rd if you are going to go with doctrine be specific at what was said and when.
4th multiple times T.B gave all the credit to Jesus and said it has nothing to do with him, that anyone could take the pulpit and it continue. He was saying as long a Jesus was at the helm.

How do I know these things?
Not because I read them on the internet,
Not because my pastor told me a story.
BUT I WAS THERE!

*****

I wasn’t there (thank God), but there were people who were there who saw things differently and saw through the deception. I think witnesses often see what we want to see.

Here’s one eyewitnesses account from Gary Osborne (editor-in-chief of the Sentinel, the voice of the Alliance of Biblical Pentecostals, Spring Hill FL):

"The first night I personally attended was Thursday, May 8th. Mr. Bentley and his crew were now holding services in the Lakeland Civic Center, which can seat approximately 7,000 people. The doors opened at 6:00 PM to the blowing of a shofar from people waiting to get in. The first thing I noticed as I took a seat in the very back of the auditorium was that the music being played was the loudest I have ever encountered in any 'Christian' service I have ever attended. It was blaring loud as the worship team practiced a few songs in anticipation of the 7:00 PM Service. I was immediately struck by how many people had banners or flags waving, and how many were jumping up and down like Mexican jumping beans.

"There was a lot of 'cheerleading' from the stage as microphone checks were being done. Another thing that really stood out were certain buzzwords that were used repeatedly. The phrase 'stir yourselves up' was used repeatedly, as was the concept of a 'transferable anointing.' A woman led in prayer for the service and said, 'sound waves carry your [God’s] presence and anointing' and then told the people to 'roar like a lion!' At that request, people everywhere shouted at the top of their lungs and blew the shofars. This same lady was jerking and twitching in a similar way to what has happened in meetings in Toronto and Brownsville in the past. She went on to tell the people to look at one another and say, 'You are pregnant - with the Holy Spirit and fire!' There was also much talk of 'birthing' and 'signs and wonders.'

"The 'MC' (that's the best word to describe him) for the meetings then came up and told the audience to get ready because we were going live on God TV in just a couple of minutes. He had a young man stand behind him and gave the audience instructions to look at this man as he held up his hands for a countdown. Everyone was to make as much noise as possible when the services went live, and believe me they did. It was very orchestrated. There was also talk of being 'drunk in the Spirit' during this lead up time to going live on TV.

"The service began with loud, loud rock style music. By the way, I am not an old fuddy-dud who doesn't like up-tempo music. I'm a Pentecostal and don't at all mind exuberant worship. So my comments are not coming from some prejudice in that vein. I love to praise the Lord, and to do so with a full heart. I clap, shout, and have even been known to jump up and down every now and then. But what I saw and heard at the beginning of this service was unlike anything I had ever witnessed in a Christian service before (and I've attended my fair share of 'off the wall' services in the past). This was different. It had a secular, rock concert feel to it. People were swaying and dancing to the music constantly. and along with the unsupported claims, I feel it is an indication that what is happening is not connected with a Holy God who is bringing people into a closer relationship with Him but of man-made manifestations that desire people to want more of 'it'. I leave that to you to consider if this is just me or whether there is something deeper here."
​

~Jim

When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain? ~Bob Dylan, 1979​

 

[Henaynei]

Has the frontman for the Lakeland Fiasco yet (as of this posting) made a public apology for bringing down the “revival” and disappointing/disillusioning so many of his supporters? His board made a feeble attempt at it but what about him?

I don’t know. I haven’t heard.

Repentance would require it, shouldn't it?

~Jim

When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain? ~Bob Dylan​

true repentance does not happen in response to discovery or publication... it happens after brokenness and self-inquiry before G-d....

I'd much rather he repented not at all than sling out an immediate statement no matter how well written or received..... I'll wait patiently for a true broken repentance... and pray for it.... it is his only hope....

 

[JimB]

true repentance does not happen in response to discovery or publication... it happens after brokenness and self-inquiry before G-d....

I'd much rather he repented not at all than sling out an immediate statement no matter how well written or received..... I'll wait patiently for a true broken repentance... and pray for it.... it is his only hope....

This is a point well taken, Hena. Repentance or an apology would have been more convincing if it had happened before he was caught with his pants down. Better late than never, IMO.

But, OTOH, David did not repent until he was confronted of sin by Nathan.

~Jim

When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain? ~Bob Dylan, 1979​

 

[Henaynei]

When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain? ~Bob Dylan, 1979

as ol' Robert Zimmerman once said "Ya' gotta' serve somebody!" (1979 Slow Train Coming)