Regeneration before or after saving faith

[Dave L]

When does one become Regenerated? Does it happen before in order to empower us to believe or does it happen after we believe?

Play nice

Saved first. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit who bears witness with our spirit. We believe because of this experience.

 

[Hammster]

John chapter 3: "Ye must be born again".

Why? (Regeneration and born again are the same thing)

 

[faroukfarouk]

Why? (Regeneration and born again are the same thing)

I think we should read what the Lord Jesus says in the whole of John chapter 3.

 

[Hammster]

Cuz we're LOST, Hammy - Total Depravity may be defined differently by Cals and Armins, but " as in Adam all die"

Okay. Does being born again make us found?

 

[Hammster]

I think we should read what the Lord Jesus says in the whole of John chapter 3.

What’s wrong with a dead man that he can’t see or enter the kingdom?

 

[BBAS 64]

It is possible to be regenerated and fall away. This is called apostasy.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Good day Maria

I would suggest One of the world’s top 3 NT Greek exegetes DA Carson, addresses Hebrew chapter 6 in context.


Hebrews 6 - DA Carson

In Him,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

Well as the flesh can do nothing to please God, something happens to the believer before they place their trust in Christ! Whether it is regeneration or the spirit compelling us to trust in Jesus I can't say for sure.

But I do believe that God does some kind of work in the heart of an individual to be able to accept jesus by faith!

Good Day, Nolidad

Indeed he does:

EZE 36:26And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

God does for a purpose he is the primary sufficient cause of our walking and our obeying. The gospel call us to repent and God is the effective cause of our doing to that command.

God does, and that action carries out his direct purposed effect every time with out fail.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Good day Maria

I would suggest One of the world’s top 3 NT Greek exegetes DA Carson, addresses Hebrew chapter 6 in context.


Hebrews 6 - DA Carson

In Him,

Bill

Thanks for sharing!

 

[bling]

When does one become Regenerated? Does it happen before in order to empower us to believe or does it happen after we believe?

Play nice

Regeneration happens when God showers you with unbelievable wonderful gift (like: Forgiveness, Godly type Love, a birthright to a heavenly home, purpose, indwelling Holy Spirit, power, faithfulness and so on), so from then on you react out of a kind of gratitude (Godly type Love) for what God has done and not to get something.

As far as faith/believing in something: that gift is given to all mature adult, since we all can trust in something or someone (pagan gods even). This faith only becomes “saving faith” when we direct it toward Deity and place our trust in a Benevolent Creator, which anyone can do. Faith in the form of faithfulness come after regeneration, but all nonbelieving sinners are asked to have a “faith” in God and God would not ask them to do the impossible.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day,

Regeneration:


Strongs

pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah

From G3825 and G1078; (spiritual) rebirth (the state or the act), that is, (figuratively) spiritual renovation; specifically Messianic restoration: - regeneration.

 

[nolidad]

The end of 1 Peter 1 (v.v. 22-24) has a key to understanding this, I think...

Maybe! Teh mystery of how an unsaved enemy of God turns from opposing God to receiving HIm is one mystery that will be open to much discussion till we see HIm face to face!

 

[BBAS 64]

Maybe! Teh mystery of how an unsaved enemy of God turns from opposing God to receiving HIm is one mystery that will be open to much discussion till we see HIm face to face!

Good Day, Nolidad

Not really a mystery the answer is God... He adopted us as his own.

He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,


In Him,

Bill

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Maybe! Teh mystery of how an unsaved enemy of God turns from opposing God to receiving HIm is one mystery that will be open to much discussion till we see HIm face to face!

Yahweh did the unthinkable -
Jesus died for the unrighteous , to save them ! (in line with His Word).

 

[nolidad]

Good Day, Nolidad

Not really a mystery the answer is God... He adopted us as his own.

He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,


In Him,

Bill

Yes very true, but I was referring to the mechanics of it all and what exactly takes place in those nanoseconds that happen at salvation.

 

[nolidad]

Yahweh did the unthinkable -
Jesus died for the unrighteous , to save them ! (in line with His Word).

And as the song says: " I am forever grateful".

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yes very true, but I was referring to the mechanics of it all and what exactly takes place in those nanoseconds that happen at salvation.

Did you ever in your life see an auction of slaves ? (even if on tv/ movies/ video/ web)

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

This is a rough draft that I’m too lazy to redo, but, altho to doesn’t mention regeneration, (in fact precludes it) which is the reawakening of the human spirit that suffered death (or disconnection to the Father) at the fall, it does kinda sorta explain the process that others may or not agree with.

Food for thought on depravity, reconciliation and resurrection.

The point beyond depravity to be aimed at is reconciliation. Iow human nature fallen is on it's own wavelength and we have to get back onto God's wavelength, into the mindset of Christ. That's accomplished in what He carried out via His divine/human nature. After He rose He was able to give to us a newly created nature that is not available unless the need for a savior is acknowledged first (we are born into a depraved state beyond saving) . As long as depravity (all born under sin and not able to do anything to please God) is not recognized then there's no incentive to view oneself in need of a savior, nothing to be redeemed from.

God's work is a very slow process and any crises that comes up can be explained from within that slow process from beginning of time. A crises only indicates a new line of action (ie: back to God's wavelength)=(reconciliation) that results in the continuity of that which proceeded it from the beginning of God's plan thru to the accomplishments of His Divine work. (belief in what He has accomplished makes Him beyond just a kinsman redeemer but also establishes Him as Lord)

Jesus went thru many crises in His life from birth, baptism, transfiguration, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension. Each crises initiated a new movement and commenced a new process. Each ushers in new order of things crowning that of the past creating the force for that to come.

So recognition of the doctrine of depravity is necessary (according to scripture) before salvation can even begin..

(i’m not using the term depravity as some depict doctrinally but that we are unable to please God as is so are deprived of His fellowship)

According to the scritures ... a faith that is built on rock and not on sand because the decision for Christ is based on accurately gathered information. John the Baptist's disciples came to Jesus to ask if He was the one that had been promised or if they should wait for another. Jesus answered according to scripture as proof that it was being fulfilled in Him. His disciples on the Emmaus road needed proof again concerning those things Luke 24:26-27 and it's necessary for us to see it too.

Jesus offered Jonah being in the belly of the whale as the only sign of resurrection but are there more in the OT? Hosea 6:2 “After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will raise us up, that we may live before him” can be sited but it's not referenced by the NT except maybe in Paul's 3-day motive, and Psalms 16:10 not seeing corruption can be explained away too. The point is belief in Christ constitutes seeing that in those scriptures.You pretty much have to go to New Testament writings 1 Corinthians 15 for the explanation of the events that the disciples witnessed. What they experienced constituted their belief. And that's what the faith that is based on that foundation is about too. It's a hope in that which is not seen.

Accurately gathered information for belief in the resurrection comes from faith built on faith. The initial basis for the foundation is the super-natural revelation that first occurred when we first believed, that held on to, plus the many times that He's worked on our behalf gains insight into the fact that He is alive and the hope is in His work that He will complete the good work that He began in us.

PS, some of that doesn’t even make sense to me so it was probably based on another conversation.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Link to blog with basic doctrine links Where To Find The Basic Doctrine From The Bible | Christian Forums I would give credit where credit is due but have forgotten the book reference that it was condensed from.

 

[JIMINZ]

When does one become Regenerated? Does it happen before in order to empower us to believe or does it happen after we believe?

Play nice

The answer to your question is, a Believer becomes Regenerated after he Believes.

We see the first mention of the need for and the process of Regeneration form Jesus in His discourse with Nicodemus.

John 3:1-8
1) There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2) The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4) Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

We see that Nicodemus professed his BELIEF, to Jesus.
Jesus answered him by telling him he must be Barn Again in order for him to be able to SEE The Kingdom of God.

Nicodemus did not understand how he could be Born Again a second time

Jesus then tells Nicodemus for the second time he must be Born Again in order for him to ENTER The Kingdom of God, explaining to him that, there is a realm of the Flesh which he lived in, and the realm of the Spirit where the Kingdom of God exists, which is the place where God dwells.

The process Jesus explains for this transformation to take place is through Baptism, being Born Again both in the Water and the Spirit.

Jesus then went on in his explanation saying, when a human being is born, he lives in the Realm of the Flesh, but the human which becomes Born of the Spirit, now resides (ENTERS) in/to the Spiritual Realm, which is The Kingdom of God.

This therefore is when the Regeneration of the Human, (Believer) actually takes place.

How then do we know this is so?

From the words of Jesus Himself, both above where he referenced Regeneration to Nicodemus, and below where He gave the Great Commission to the Apostles, describing not only Believing but the Regeneration process which is necessary for the Believer, placing them in the order of not only their occurrence, but the order when a Believer does truly become Regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

Mar 16:15,16
15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Now in answer to your question, the place where the word Regeneration is used to explain When, Where, How this process actually does take place is found in Jesus own words.

1) Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
2) Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

BORN:
G1080
γεννάω
gennaō
ghen-nah'-o
From a variation of G1085; to procreate (properly of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate: - bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

G1085
γένος
genos
ghen'-os
From G1096; “kin” (abstractly or concretely, literally or figuratively, individually or collectively): - born, country (-man), diversity, generation, kind (-red), nation, offspring, stock.

G1096
γίνομαι
ginomai
ghin'-om-ahee
A prolonged and middle form of a primary verb; to cause to be (“gen” -erate), that is, (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literally, figuratively, intensively, etc.): - arise be assembled, be (come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, be done, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.


The process of Regeneration
Rom 6:4-7
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

 

[fhansen]

When does one become Regenerated? Does it happen before in order to empower us to believe or does it happen after we believe?

Play nice

The Holy Spirit draws us, coaxes us, enables us to believe and be saved but never forces the issue-that would run counter to the gospel and the entire bible from Genesis on. We cannot possibly be saved without God and yet we can still always refuse to be saved, or turn back away from Him at any point later down the road.