Regeneration before or after saving faith

[BBAS 64]

My understanding is that we have a measure of faith that is God's gift to all people. (Romans 12:3) Some would argue that only believers have faith. Obviously I disagree.

When the gospel is preached (the real gospel, not the "invite Jesus into your heart" cop out), the Holy Spirit is there. He convicts of sin. If and when the sinner accepts the Lord Jesus, at that moment his sins are forgiven and he is regenerated.

When we accept the Lord Jesus, we get all that He is. We then have the faith of the Son of God, which begins to replace the measure of faith. I believe this to be what is meant by "faith to faith" (Romans 1:17).

Good day, Aussie

Seeing the context of Romans chapter 3 and the measure of faith is in the context of the body and gifts to be used by individual members of the body. It is clear contextually where the measure of faith was given, and it's purpose for believers in the body

Romans 12 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.


As to your view that each person having faith Paul is pretty clear that all men do not have faith. To believe other wise would contradict the clear statement made by Paul in this text.

2 Thes 3: Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.

In Him,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

When does one become Regenerated? Does it happen before in order to empower us to believe or does it happen after we believe?

Play nice

Good Day, Friend Of

How do you define "regeneration"?
Why is it needed?
What is it's purpose?


In Him,

Bill

 

[renniks]

A

When does one become Regenerated? Does it happen before in order to empower us to believe or does it happen after we believe?

Play nice

After. How many verses do you need to prove it? The order is believing then salvation.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

When does one become Regenerated? Does it happen before in order to empower us to believe or does it happen after we believe?

Play nice

Regeneration is experienced through receiving His Holy Spirit. It would be impossible to receive His Holy Spirit unless one believes in the Gospel. It would be impossible to believe unless one hears the Gospel. It would be impossible to hear the Gospel unless someone tells us about it. This is the path to the Kingdom of God and the mandate given by Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The Holy Spirit works in our life through sanctification. Reminding and convicting us of sin leading to repentance, as we walk with Him daily.
“And He said to them, ‘Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.'”
Blessings

 

[faroukfarouk]

Regeneration is experienced through receiving of His Holy Spirit. It would be impossible to receive His Holy Spirit unless one believes in the Gospel. It would be impossible to believe unless one hears the Gospel. It would be impossible to hear the Gospel unless someone tells us about it. This is the path to the Kingdom of God and the mandate given by Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
“And He said to them, ‘Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.'”
Blessings

Faith is a fruit of the Spirit, as per Galatians.

John 1, believers are born of the will of God ('not of the will of the flesh').

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Faith is a fruit of the Spirit, as per Galatians.

John 1, believers are born of the will of God ('not of the will of the flesh').

Continued faith. Many fall away because they quench the Holy Spirit.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Continued faith. Many fall away because they quench the Holy Spirit.

I do believe that those who as you say fall away, as per the parable of the sower, were not truly regenerated in the first place because of the lack of root; because the stony ground choked the Word, etc.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I do believe that those who as you say fall away, as per the parable of the sower, were not truly regenerated in the first place because of the lack of root; because the stony ground choked the Word, etc.

It is possible to be regenerated and fall away. This is called apostasy.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

 

[faroukfarouk]

It is possible to be regenerated and fall away. This is called apostasy.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Actually by definition I would see an apostate as someone with light but not life.

 

[Tra Phull]

Our finite minds conceive things linearly, but God is outside of time. Predestination and even the crucifixion are "from the foundation of the world", He is slain from the foundation of the world. Predestination is according to FOREKNOWLEGE.
The hokey example is God looks through the TUNNEL OF TIME, and can see who will believe AND persist in believing until they kick the bucket or get HARPADZO'ed - whether that is pre, mid, post or whatever.
No one can snatch a believer out of God's hand, the possibility of a person CEASING TO BE A BELIEVER was admitted by Arminius, his followers, the Remonstrants, felt the issue of OSAS vs OSnAS was too close to call, so there are Arminians of both persuasions about OSAS and OSnAS - that issue is NOT a pillar of Arminianism like it is of Calvinism with its Eternal Security wired into TULIP.

Some of the "what happens first" things are above our paygrade, but I feel you BELIEVE and then are regenerated - the whole idea of PREVENIENT GRACE changes the heart of stone to a heart that can believe, it CAN be resisted, that is up to the individual. And it is up to the individual to REMAIN a believer and not be a castaway, which Paul mentioned.

I believe and confess - so
Fire Place no go

All the speculation of when God DECREED this, that before this, Supralapsarian, Infralapsarian... who knows?

The first BIBLICAL decree was "Let there be light"

we reason that Satan and his angels rebelled before that - "he was a murderer from the beginning"

 

[Tra Phull]

Ahhh, the "never saved to begin with" card...

Never knew you, but it was also said "Depart from Me, I know ye not FROM WHENCE YE ARE"

 

[Hammster]

Maybe I missed it, but has anyone answered why we need to be regenerated?

 

[Tra Phull]

1John 2:18-19 speaks of antichrists, plural, that WENT OUT FROM US, BUT WERE NOT OF US

They existed in John's time - this cannot be applied to "never saved to begin with" stuff

Hebrews mentions falling away, by those who have tasted if the heavenly gift

 

[faroukfarouk]

Our finite minds conceive things linearly, but God is outside of time. Predestination and even the crucifixion are "from the foundation of the world", He is slain from the foundation of the world. Predestination is according to FOREKNOWLEGE.
The hokey example is God looks through the TUNNEL OF TIME, and can see who will believe AND persist in believing until they kick the bucket or get HARPADZO'ed - whether that is pre, mid, post or whatever.
No one can snatch a believer out of God's hand, the possibility of a person CEASING TO BE A BELIEVER was admitted by Arminius, his followers, the Remonstrants, felt the issue of OSAS vs OSnAS was too close to call, so there are Arminians of both persuasions about OSAS and OSnAS - that issue is NOT a pillar of Arminianism like it is of Calvinism with its Eternal Security wired into TULIP.

Some of the "what happens first" things are above our paygrade, but I feel you BELIEVE and then are regenerated - the whole idea of PREVENIENT GRACE changes the heart of stone to a heart that can believe, it CAN be resisted, that is up to the individual. And it is up to the individual to REMAIN a believer and not be a castaway, which Paul mentioned.

I believe and confess - so
Fire Place no go

All the speculation of when God DECREED this, that before this, Supralapsarian, Infralapsarian... who knows?

The first BIBLICAL decree was "Let there be light"

we reason that Satan and his angels rebelled before that - "he was a murderer from the beginning"

Romans 8.38-39 speaks of the eternal security of the true believer. John's First Epistle has a lot about the true believer's assurance.

 

[faroukfarouk]

1John 2:18-19 speaks of antichrists, plural, that WENT OUT FROM US, BUT WERE NOT OF US

They existed in John's time - this cannot be applied to "never saved to begin with" stuff

Hebrews mentions falling away, by those who have tasted if the heavenly gift

An apostate has light, but not life.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one." (John 10.27-30)

 

[faroukfarouk]

Maybe I missed it, but has anyone answered why we need to be regenerated?

John chapter 3: "Ye must be born again".

 

[nolidad]

When does one become Regenerated? Does it happen before in order to empower us to believe or does it happen after we believe?

Play nice

Well as the flesh can do nothing to please God, something happens to the believer before they place their trust in Christ! Whether it is regeneration or the spirit compelling us to trust in Jesus I can't say for sure.

But I do believe that God does some kind of work in the heart of an individual to be able to accept jesus by faith!

 

[Tra Phull]

Cuz we're LOST, Hammy - Total Depravity may be defined differently by Cals and Armins, but " as in Adam all die"

 

[faroukfarouk]

1John 2:18-19 speaks of antichrists, plural, that WENT OUT FROM US, BUT WERE NOT OF US

They existed in John's time - this cannot be applied to "never saved to begin with" stuff

Hebrews mentions falling away, by those who have tasted if the heavenly gift

How can what Scripture speaks of as 'antichrists...that..were not of us' be regarded as true, born again believers?

I don't see it at all.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Well as the flesh can do nothing to please God, something happens to the believer before they place their trust in Christ! Whether it is regeneration or the spirit compelling us to trust in Jesus I can't say for sure.

But I do believe that God does some kind of work in the heart of an individual to be able to accept jesus by faith!

The end of 1 Peter 1 (v.v. 22-24) has a key to understanding this, I think...