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Featured Regeneration before or after saving faith

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by friend of, Mar 16, 2020.

  1. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    When does one become Regenerated? Does it happen before in order to empower us to believe or does it happen after we believe?

    Play nice
     
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  2. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    Happens the very moment a person trust in Jesus for the free gift of Eternal Life.
     
  3. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My understanding is that we have a measure of faith that is God's gift to all people. (Romans 12:3) Some would argue that only believers have faith. Obviously I disagree.

    When the gospel is preached (the real gospel, not the "invite Jesus into your heart" cop out), the Holy Spirit is there. He convicts of sin. If and when the sinner accepts the Lord Jesus, at that moment his sins are forgiven and he is regenerated.

    When we accept the Lord Jesus, we get all that He is. We then have the faith of the Son of God, which begins to replace the measure of faith. I believe this to be what is meant by "faith to faith" (Romans 1:17).
     
  4. Tra Phull

    Tra Phull Well-Known Member

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    after
     
  5. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    The closest we have to an ordo salutis or “order of salvation” in Scriptures is Romans 8:28-30

    Romans 8: NASB

    28And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.



    The clearest is from Jesus in John chapter 3:

    John 3: NASB

    7“Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8“The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”


    We can opine all we want on “an order” of salvation, however must realize this is a work of God according to His will and purposes. That’s the very first and most important act in the “order.”

    I believe the question to ask is this:

    Does a heart of stone have the capability to hear the calling of God and react in faith and repentance?
     
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  6. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Totally at the Father's Good Pleasure --- at the TIME HE CHOOSES.

    >> "not by the will of the flesh, nor of man, but by the Will of God"
     
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  7. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Okay so the Clavinist teaching that you have to be regenerated before coming to faith in Christ is in fact error?
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  8. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    It could be right or wrong.
     
  9. Hammster

    Hammster Gomaristist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    To get to the answer you must figure out why one needs to be regenerated in the first place.
     
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  10. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    As my old Dad once told me, "Some people just come to know the Lord."

    WHEN it happens is the work of God, but if there is no heart response there is no regeneration. Logically, it is impossible for the sinner to turn to Christ apart from the work of God. The dead in sin can do nothing. I find it a bit silly to hinge eternity on the fallen will of man.

    You may, like I, find yourself surprised that the truly redeemed who KNOW God, of free will persuasion, still pray like the Reformed, gladly admitting to the power of God in bringing people to himself. Our words, even our gospel, may sound different, but it is not. The Redeemer of his elect is the same, no matter how our concepts bounce around in our heads.
     
  11. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    I don’t think anyone posited the “Calvinist view.”

    I believe if we follow the Inspired Holy Scriptures we find the answer.
     
  12. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    I think your quote from John 1:13 answers the OP. By God’s Grace.
     
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  13. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Edit
     
  14. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Is it really thought? How about Ephesians 1:11-14
     
  15. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Is that a question?

    Anyhow, Reformed Theology teaches regeneration IS "coming to faith" (as you called it). According to our Theology, Salvific Faith comes WITH regeneration, or as some of say, is necessarily PART OF regeneration --not even a result. We teach that the whole business is the work of God, including keeping us. Faith in Christ is not the result of human will, effort, or integrity.
     
  16. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm sorry, but I don't see what in your text there disagrees with what I said.
     
  17. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
     
  18. gospels

    gospels God saw me when He made me and it was very good. Supporter

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    When one is born of water (living word of God) and the Spirit.

    Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word. Ephesians 5:25-26

    The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear its sound, but you don’t know where it comes from or where it’s going. That’s how it is with everyone who has been born from the Spirit. John 3:8
     
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  19. Dan1988

    Dan1988 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God's Word tells us that we're all born, dead in our sins and trespasses. A dead person can do nothing to effect his salvation, so God must regenerate him before he can do anything.
    So if we believe in God, then we have to say that the work of salvation is all of God from start to finish. The only thing we contribute is a wicked corpse.
     
  20. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Can it be shown by anybody that, Believing corresponds or is connected in any way with Regeneration?

    About 98% - 99% of the time the word is used in the Bible
    Believe
    Believeth
    Believing
    Belief - G4102

    G4100
    πιστεύω
    pisteuō
    pist-yoo'-o
    From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

    G4102
    πίστις
    pistis
    pis'-tis
    From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

    G3982
    πείθω
    peithō
    pi'-tho
    A primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty): - agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) content, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield.


     
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