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Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Holycanaan, Jan 13, 2002.

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  1. Holycanaan

    Holycanaan New Member


    Your scenario of the rapture and the consequences that it will bring to America, Israel and the rest of the world are very possible ~~ I do not believe that real peace will ever be achieved in the Middle East. As a consequence of the non existing peace in Israel ~~ From now until the rapture, the world will be in fear of wars and rumors of war. I do believe that the rapture will take place first before any other Biblical prophecies occur. I will agree that a horrible chaos will exist through out the world as mentioned in the Bible. I, like you, and many other believers, believe that we are in the threshold of the rapture ~~ The many signs are there for us to see! :rolleyes:
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

    United States
    Hello Phyllis,
    And welcome to the forum Sister!
    I would have to agree with you. The peace that is coming, will be a false peace. A contract or treaty or agreement will be for seven years, but it will be a broken promise after 3 1/2 years. The Church will be gone, ( the ones that made themselves ready). During this time, the two Witnesses will be preaching in Israel, and God will seal 144,000 witnesses for the world. They will take the gospel to the ends of the earth, and then the end shall come. Then 3 1/2 years of hell on earth.

    Jerusalem shall be trodden under foot, until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled. This could also be a clue about the rapture. The Church is made up of gentiles according to the Jews. And when the times of the gentiles is fulfilled (finished-rapture), Israel will be in total control of Jerusalem. God will once again turn his attention to Israel. They will rebuild the Temple and sacrifice like they did in the ancient days of the Old Testament. This is also known as the time of Jacobs Trouble.>>>>>>>rollinTHUNDER
  3. israelthebride

    israelthebride ONE BODY

    I see one "RAPTURE" in the BIBLE.

    When the LORD calls HIS TWO WINESSES to HIM. (REV 11:11-12) The TWO Olive branches, the "ANNOINTED ONES", that stand before the LORD of the Earth. (ZECH 4:11-14, REV 11:4) The TWO Branches that used to be ONE. (JER 11:16-17) The TWO that will be ONE. (ROMANS 11:17-21,24) The TWO WITNESSES are TWO "PEOPLES" (Two groups of people)(Read Ezekiel 37:15-28)

    Revelation:11:12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

    Why is this "RAPTURE" not taught?
  4. truthseeker

    truthseeker New Member

    It's nice to meet you israel >>> I feel like I am the only one here that hasn't fallen for the "rapture" doctrine. I feel that it has been confused with the transformation of our physical bodies when the Lord comes to establish the Kingdom.

    There once was a song "I'll fly away". I am looking forward to the Kingdom on earth. When the Son's of God will be made manifest.

    SHALOM :)
  5. Holycanaan

    Holycanaan New Member

    Hi Truthseeker,

    I believe that you are confused about the Rapture and the Tribulation. :confused: You see, the end of times is broken into three time periods.

    The first period is the Rapture, followed by the second period which is the Tribulation which it's duration is seven years. In turn this seven years is broken into two three and a half year periods. The third period is the Millenium.

    The Rapture is when the dead who believe in Christ will meet Jesus some place between heaven and earth. (1Thessalonians 4:15-18) Then the ones that are alive, who believe in Jesus, will be transformed and will also be taken up to meet Jesus. These two groups of people are what is known as the Bride or Church of God. Being that the Church of God or His Bride has been taken up, there will be no more Church here on this earth.

    The first three and a half years of the Tribulation will be some what peaceful, however, the last three and a half year time period is when the anti christ will rule the world. Also, the battle of Armageddon will take place. Also, at this time, the Bride or Church which is in heaven is preparing herself for the marriage with Jesus.

    There will be what is called, Tribulation Saints, during this period. But being that there is no more Church on earth, these Saints will not be considered as part of the Bride or Church of God, because they refused Him to begin with. They will serve God in a different manner from that of the Church.

    At the end of the seven year Tribulation period and the beginning of the Millenium is when Jesus will come down with ALL of His Glory~~His Angels and His Saints to rule the earth for one million years. During this time is when the dead in Christ (unsaved) will be raised from the dead ~~ Judged and sent to hell forever. By this time, the devil has already been sent to hell and thrown into the lake of fire forever!! :D

    There is a very good write up on ~~ www.raptureme.com/rap199.html
  6. inhimitrust

    inhimitrust Well-Known Member

    Very interesting! Just out of curiosity, what bible did that come out of? Let me guess...the "Left Behind" bible, right?
    I wonder if it is too late to buy stock in their book company?:rolleyes:
  7. Dad Ernie

    Dad Ernie Well-Known Member

    Greetings Israel...

    You are -sort of- on the mark. But at this time God is calling the "resurrection" of the two witnesses to "come up here". In 11:13, you will see a "remnant" that is afrightened and "gives glory to God". These are the ones who will go up in the "rapture". Remember the dead in Christ shall rise first and THEN those who are "alive and remain", shall be caught up. This "catching away" is distinctly speaking of the few left that were not killed during the Great Tribulation. The "rapture" occurs at the sound of the "last trump" or the 7th trumpet in Revelation, and immediately followed by the destruction of Mystery Babylon.


    Dad Ernie
  8. inhimitrust

    inhimitrust Well-Known Member

    My own interpretation of that is the 2 witnesses being killed by the beast of rome/jews-"Christ", God breathing life into Him(resurrection) and ascending on a cloud. The 7th trump sounds as His victory. Then He is shown later as "wounded" lamb. How the heck do you see a rapture in that? The ones that weren't killed during the great tribulation of the destruction of Jerusalem were the elect sealed of the 12 tribes, which were of the 10 tribes of Israel(beast of the sea) and 2 tribes of Judah(beast of the earth/Jerusalem/harlot/babylon), followed by the destruction of Jerusalem/"babylon" This is from a fresh biblical perspective.

    rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.
    Zech 4:6 "So he said to me, "This is the WORD OF THE LORD TO ZERUBBABEL: "Not by MIGHT nor by POWER, but by My SPIRIT," says the LORD Almighty. "What are you, O mighty MOUNTAIN? Before Zerubbabel you will become level ground. Then he will bring out the CAPSTONE to shouts of 'God bless it! God bless it!'"" In V12, we have both these men described as 'BRANCHES.' V12 "Again I asked him, "What are these two olive BRANCHES beside the two gold pipes that pour out golden oil?" Out of THE TRIBE OF JUDAH, are the TWO BRANCHES, THE TWO WITNESSES, THE TWO PROPHETS, THE TWO LAMPSTANDS, THE TWO WATCHMEN, AND THE TWO OLIVE TREES. The Bible refers to them by all of these descriptions.

    Zech 6:11-13 "Take silver and gold and make a crown, and set it on the head of the high priest Joshua, son of Jehozadak. Tell him this is what the LORD says: "Here is the man whose name is the Branch, and he will branch out from his place and build the Temple of the LORD. It is HE THAT WILL BUILD THE TEMPLE OF THE LORD, and HE WILL BE CLOTHED WITH MAJESTY AND WILL SIT AND RULE ON HIS THRONE." It's Joshua who is crowned, and it is he who has his dirty garments removed and clothed(Jesus wore sackcloth while preaching). - at God's instruction - with 'rich garments' (Zech 2:3-4). And it is this same man, Joshua, who builds the TEMPLE!

  9. 9-iron

    9-iron Football Fan


    :help: Nah, you aren't the only one. Actually, I am unsure right now.
  10. inhimitrust

    inhimitrust Well-Known Member

    It is not about being sure, just knowing and Loving God thru our Lord Jesus Christ.
    One thing we are sure of..Eternal with with God thru Jesus Christ, for us and our loved ones. Can't beat that! :wave:

    Zech 8:23 "Thus says the LORD of hosts: 'In those days ten men[10 lost tribes/sheep] from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man[Jesus Christ], saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard [that] God [is] with you." ' "

    Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love [is] the fulfillment of the law.
  11. Evee

    Evee Well-Known Member

    I believe when Jesus comes back it will be to set up his kingdom.
  12. postrib2

    postrib2 Guest

    [postrib account hasn't been working]

    Greetings in Jesus' name,

    2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 says that Christ can't come and gather together the church until after the abomination of desolation (Daniel 9:27, 11:31-36, 12:11), which can't occur until after the Jewish temple is rebuilt in Jerusalem, for Jesus' coming (parousia) to gather together the church must destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:8).

    Christians who will live to enter into the great tribulation will be members of the church, for they (like other Christians) will have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb (Revelation 7:14), will have the faith of Jesus (Revelation 14:12), and will die in the Lord (Revelation 14:13). The church is made up of all believers of all time, whether Jewish or Gentile (1 Corinthians 12:13), for there's only one faith, and only one body (Ephesians 4:4-6), which body is the church (Ephesians 1:22-23).

    Jesus is addressing the same church, the same "ye" in Matthew 24:36-51 ("be ye also ready") that He's addressing in Matthew 24:3-35 ("ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation").

    Luke 21:24 says that Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled, and Revelation 11:2 says that Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles during the tribulation; therefore, the times of the Gentiles can't be fulfilled before the tribulation.

    The time of Jacob's trouble isn't the entire tribulation, but the very end of the tribulation, right before the second coming (Jeremiah 30:7-9; compare Daniel 12:1-2), when all nations will gather against Jerusalem (compare Zechariah 14:2-4; Daniel 11:45).

    In the tribulation there'll be Christians from every nation (Revelation 7:9-14), not just Israel.

    No scripture says the rapture will be before the tribulation. Mark 13:24-27 says the rapture will be after the tribulation.

    Actually, no scripture says the tribulation lasts seven years. Only the treaty that the Antichrist makes is for seven years (Daniel 9:27). There'll be a great war in the Middle East (Daniel 11:13-18) before the Antichrist arises to make the treaty (Daniel 11:21-23), which could be the war of the second seal, which with its aftermath of famine will kill one fourth of the world (Revelation 6:4-8).


    May the Lord Jesus Christ reveal to us the truth regarding these matters.
  13. inhimitrust

    inhimitrust Well-Known Member

    May Jesus Christ indeed reveal to us the truth in the bible. Was the prophecy of Daniel, the other prophets, Christ and Paul and Revelation for 3000 or more years in the future, or for a certain generation in particular?. Was it written for the jewish people at that time or for us "gentiles" 3000 yrs later? Who are the real "jews" of today? The ones that believe and follow Christ, or the ones that don"t. Was the message of the "7 churches" for our generation or the one in the 1st century? To whom was He telling that He would come "quickly" and redeem them? Paul said their redemtion was drawing near, what did he mean by that? It appears Paul was telling his own followers that they would not have long to wait. It doesn't sound like he was talking to "us".

    Luke 21:28 "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near."
    Galatians 1:3-4 "Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age .

    Romans 13:11"And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed."

    Revelation 3:9 "Indeed I will make [those] of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie -- indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

    reve 2:20 "Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 "And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 "Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 "I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

    revel 3: 11 "Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.

    Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love [is] the fulfillment of the law.

    Galatian 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those [who are] Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

    Zech 8:23 "Thus says the LORD of hosts: 'In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man[
    Jesus Christ], saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard [that] God [is] with you." ' "

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