Rainbow churches

[~Anastasia~]

Confrontation has to be done carefully, and discerned if you are the correct person to be doing it. There is also some spiritual danger to the one doing the calling out - it MUST be done in humility and love, never in a critical condemnatory way.

One easy way to tell .... anytime you are "itching" to call someone out about their sin, you either aren't the right one to do it, or aren't in the right frame of mind. The right spirit is cautious, and wanting to spare the person in sin.

I've had it done to me, both rightly and wrongly. I've been on the other side, both knowing that I shouldn't because I wanted to (and I didn't, thankfully), and knowing that I must, but not wanting to (and thankfully God gave me very gracious things to say) and I've also become aware of situations where I was to say nothing, but only pray for them. This takes care and discernment, something it may not always be easy to figure out. This is best handled by a shepherd of the flock, whose responsibility it really is, or sometimes an elder kind of position in the body (which doesn't mean official, sometimes the older women need to gently guide the younger ones, for example).

And I'm not commenting on your situation, because I don't know. But the biggest indicator I've found is that any inclination to WANT to do it has been a wrong spirit, in my case, and the only times it was correct was when I didn't want to do it, but prayed much before hand and knew I had to, then went forward very, very carefully and with kindness.

It's funny, I've watched our priest handle such situations (minor things - anything major would surely be done privately) and I see he has a gift to be as Christ would be, always seeking to restore people and not condemn them. I've almost never seen that ability to that degree, so he serves as a good example for us and a blessing to the flock.

 

[Waggles]

Im just wondering if these rainbow churches are kind of wishy washy about the bible. They seem accepting of everyone but..I dont know..are they saying LGBT are ok or what. They do weird stuff like prayer labyrinths and are part of the anglican churches which I notice are kind of real liberal on homosexuals, but that doesnt seem to square with the bible.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet,
and sweet for bitter!
Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
Therefore as the fire devours the stubble, and the flame consumes the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness,
and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts,
and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 5:20-24
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, high minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2 Timothy 3:1-5

 

[PloverWing]

Yes, but also:

If any of you put a stumbling block before one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for you if a great millstone were fastened around your neck and you were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Matthew 18:6

They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on the shoulders of others, but they themselves are unwilling to lift a finger to move them.
Matthew 23:4

When I think of the young LGBT people I know who are devout Christians, or non-religious but curious about Christianity, and I imagine turning them away from the church unless they're willing to bear the heavy burden of lifelong celibacy, I think of these verses.

 

[Albion]

As I read that, I sympathize...but only to the extent of extending a welcome. If the idea is to accommodate them in the matter of certain sexual behavior or even give approval of it, I'd have to say that it would be wrong of the church to do that.

Of course, it's precisely that which most often happens.

The idea that any church is on guard, set to throw known gays out of the building if and when they show up for worship, is more of a red herring than a real issue. That's not to say that such an allegation was built into the preceding post, but it's the picture that's often suggested by advocates 'for inclusiveness.'

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Yes, but also:

If any of you put a stumbling block before one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for you if a great millstone were fastened around your neck and you were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Matthew 18:6

They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on the shoulders of others, but they themselves are unwilling to lift a finger to move them.
Matthew 23:4

When I think of the young LGBT people I know who are devout Christians, or non-religious but curious about Christianity, and I imagine turning them away from the church unless they're willing to bear the heavy burden of lifelong celibacy, I think of these verses.

It is important to apply scripture in context. Not pluck it out and apply it as you see fit. Maybe reading Matthew 18 will provide some insight. Continue on ironically enough with the context of what you wrote in Matthew 18...Jesus goes on.

7Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

8Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. 9And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.


Not sure you can be LBGT, or a drunk, or a liar, or a thief and be considered "devout".

 

[Dave-W]

Just because your friend goes there does not mean she is same-sex attracted. She may or may not be.

True. But at the same time it means she is in agreement with that stance and lifestyle.

 

[FireDragon76]

One suggestion if the gltg issue comes up change the wording from gltg to murderer.
Does she think it acceptable for a murderer to attend church while still committing murder.

Bad idea if you want to keep a friend.

Some of these churches have quite liberal theology that borders on syncretism, others are more mainline Protestant. Some people, while not being gay themselves, prefer a gay-welcoming church.

 

[~Anastasia~]

True. But at the same time it means she is in agreement with that stance and lifestyle.

Most probably. But the OP asked if the friend attending such a fellowship meant that the friend was same-sex attracted, so that is what I was answering.

Threads of conversations within conversations can sometimes get confusing.

 

[Dave-W]

Threads of conversations within conversations can sometimes get confusing.

Indeed.

 

[seeking.IAM]

True. But at the same time it means she is in agreement with that stance and lifestyle.

Not necessarily. It means that there is some aspect of the church that she likes that keeps her there. And it means that whatever she likes is powerful enough for her that it overrides that which she does not like. For many people, choosing a church is more than being about a single issue. I've never been to a church where I agreed with everything, but that never stopped me from going.

 

[FireDragon76]

For many people, choosing a church is more than being about a single issue. I've never been to a church where I agreed with everything, but that never stopped me from going.

It does seem there is the tendency to see some kind of political statement in ones church affiliation. I think that's a reflection of the fundamentalist movement.

 

[Waggles]

When I think of the young LGBT people I know who are devout Christians,

That is a contradiction, an impossibility. An abomination of faith.
The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination: how much more, when he brings it with a wicked mind? Proverbs 21:27
You cannot continue in sin and walk in sin, and believe that your prayers and worship are acceptable to
Jesus, and lead to salvation. This is a complete violation of Romans 6 and Romans 8
There is a way that seems right unto a person but in the end it is the pathway to death.

Jesus and the Scripture preach for people to REPENT to be baptized by full immersion which is symbolic
of the death and burial of the old person. Coming up out of the waters of baptism is symbolic of
resurrection, the new person who desires to walk a new life with Christ Jesus.
A new creature. The NT is not about people remaining in their sins and speaks strongly to those who
forgot their cleansing and renewal. Such CANNOT inherit the Kingdom of God.

Celibacy for the Kingdom of God is sometimes a requisite and millions practice it. I have been celibate
for some twenty years now as a widower. I have my eye on my future reward - salvation of my soul.

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
Matthew 19:12

 

[Waggles]

What we see in our dialogue is an example of why there are denominations and why there are rooms on christianforums.com for those looking for a church. Christians do have differences and it is important for seekers to find a church that is compatible with Christianity as they understand it.

You are writing complete nonsense, and further defending sin.
Christianity as they understand it is of no value to anyone.
Rather Christianity as God demands it is the way to go.

But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.
Ezekiel 33:6-7

 

[Waggles]

Even so anyone should be welcome no matter if they are gay or not in the churches, and even couples living outside wedlock.

Sure - we preach the gospel to all types of people. We welcome people into our hall to experience our meeting, and hear the Word of God taught.
But over time we expect people to embrace the gospel and desire repentance and then to be baptized
by water and the Holy Spirit. To become new people set free from their sins, not to continue living in
contradiction to the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles.
How can any person have a testimony to being converted if they remain as they were?

It is one thing to welcome sinners, but it is an evil to let them believe they are OK as they are, and
need not repent and embrace the righteousness of Jesus and the gospel.

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luke 5:32
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Acts 11:18

 

[Soyeong]

One of my friends goes to a church thats a gay and lesbian church in the city.
I dont know what to think about this..does this mean shes gay or lesbian? What do those kinds of churches teach?
she has a male partner and a son. I havent known her for very long. She once gave me a print out of a sermon that was given in her church and the preacher was female and while it had some good points it also mixed up the Bible with other stories not the Bible..like thoughts on Jesus by Rumi.

As she has to go all the way in the city and living in the suburbs Im kind of wondering why she goes to this church. I asked her and she says she just needed to go somewhere and find God or maybe shes a seeker. Ive asked if she would like to come to a bible study home group in my church and she said yes.

Im just wondering if these rainbow churches are kind of wishy washy about the bible. They seem accepting of everyone but..I dont know..are they saying LGBT are ok or what. They do weird stuff like prayer labyrinths and are part of the anglican churches which I notice are kind of real liberal on homosexuals, but that doesnt seem to square with the bible.

As far as I know her partner or fiance is not a believer. Im kind of concerned but dont know what to think about this.

I've never been to a rainbow church, so I can't really say much about what they teach other than the obvious that they teach people to justify their sexual sin rather than to repent of it. Your friend could have any number of reasons for attending from being gay or lesbian, to being a supporter of gay and lesbian issues, to simply being a friend of other people in the congregation. There are sadly some non-rainbow churches that are being mislead by leaders with very unbiblical beliefs, so it is hard to say whether this is an exception or the norm.

 

[PloverWing]

2Timothy2:15 and Waggles: The discussion has now crossed over into some personal territory, as you are rejecting the faith of some Christian friends who are very dear to me. Your words are causing more pain than you realize. I'm withdrawing.

I made a mistake by posting as much as I did in this thread.

 

[Waggles]

2Timothy2:15 and Waggles: The discussion has now crossed over into some personal territory, as you are rejecting the faith of some Christian friends who are very dear to me. Your words are causing more pain than you realize. I'm withdrawing.
I made a mistake by posting as much as I did in this thread.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

If you love your family members then you need to share the Bible with them and warn them of their
dire future with no hope for salvation.
Your opinions will not save them. You are doing them no favours.
They will suffer far greater pain when the stand before the Judgment Throne and their names are not written in Lamb's Book Of Life. And what if the Lord points to you and asks why did you not preach the written gospel of repentance and baptisms that my Apostles gave to the world?
How will you answer?

The Episcopal (Anglican) Church in U.S. America has given rise to the most offensive and
blasphemous bishop and theologian of recent times - Bishop of Newark, John Shelby Spong.
I hope you and others are not following this man into perdition, for he preaches wickedness.
Come as you are, Jesus loves you as sinners. No need to repent. That is fundamentalist nonsense.
Woe to those shepherds that lead any flock astray. This liberalism is murdering thousands and thousands of souls.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Deuteronomy 30:19

 

[Tolworth John]

Bad idea if you want to keep a friend.

Some of these churches have quite liberal theology that borders on syncretism, others are more mainline Protestant. Some people, while not being gay themselves, prefer a gay-welcoming church.

The point is by changing the topic from 'gay' to murderer or rapist one makes a simple point that while God welcomes all people, he also expects that their behaviour will change.

 

[seeking.IAM]

The point is by changing the topic from 'gay' to murderer or rapist one makes a simple point that while God welcomes all people, he also expects that their behaviour will change.

And the counter-point is that it is up to God to separate the sheep from the goats. It's not in my job description.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

2Timothy2:15 and Waggles: The discussion has now crossed over into some personal territory, as you are rejecting the faith of some Christian friends who are very dear to me. Your words are causing more pain than you realize. I'm withdrawing.

I made a mistake by posting as much as I did in this thread.

There is nothing wrong with this and it is actually what the Lord prescribes.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?