Questions From a Protestant

[ArmyMatt]

Thank you for pointing that out.

I still remember my thoughts when I read the Didache the first time; it reads like my notes from catechism. I've often wondered if the authorship is unknown for this reason; it's not the teaching of the Apostles, as written by an Apostle BUT rather the teaching of the Apostles written by someone sitting under their instruction taking notes.

pretty sure it was at least used as an early catechism.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I will be honest Aluke, my Christian walk has always been one I’ve looked at as a battle. Being raised in part by the Salvation Army. Thsat name wasn’t chosen at random. We are always taught about the battle for our souls that rages on and all. There are certain things, like that, that may be hard for me to die down on.

There IS a battle for souls that rages on and on ... until we are safely in the Presence of Christ after our deaths. We can expect the enemy always to do whatever he can to draw us away, in ways both bold and subtle.

That's not the main focus of what this icon is teaching but it is an illustration. The Ladder of Divine Ascent

And yes, a very high percentage - almost all that I know of - have issues come up in the week or hours prior to baptism.

Also that mention of “holy laughter” earlier. I was at a Territorial Young Adults conference for TSA this Summer and this one girl would not stop that….it was at random times it seemed….even during a testimony of God’s Glory…they gave her an esteemed award due too her being moved by the Holy Spirit. I didn’t say anything at the time because I didn’t wanna be rude. It’s not that I deserved such a reward…..but I didn’t even get to hear a prayer because all I heard was hoopin and haollarin tbh….

"Let everything be done decently, and in order" ...

 

[All4Christ]

The Didache is pretty interesting to see how the Jewish teachings seamlessly were brought into Christianity.

To @Mary7 and @Kajiki - you can see a lot of the continuity if you look at the elements found in the Orthodox altar, or if you look at a lot of the hymnography. Everything from the OT (and Israel / Judaism) is viewed from a Christological lens in Orthodoxy. The Two Ways in the Didache is very similar to the Jewish moral instruction, and a lot of prayers in it have similarities to Jewish prayers (in the light of Christ).

I highly recommend the book Springtime of the Liturgy. It isn’t cheap, but Amazon does have used copies for about $12 including shipping. It is a compilation of early liturgies from the Jewish time up through around Great Schism.



Springtime Of The Liturgy (Classics in Liturgy)
Liturgical Press
$34.95

 

[eleos1954]

Scr

I have always gone to church. In fact, if my baby book is to be believed when I left the hospital a week after I was born my first destination was not home but instead was a Salvation Army Corps (Church) in West Virginia. So it’s safe for me to say I was born into the Protestant Church. I was raised mostly in TSA but also, on my Step-Mother’s side, I went to a Southern Baptist church every other Sunday while in Elementary School and every Sunday in Middle School. My parents would often times however go Church Hopping but only to Protestant Churches. Many Baptist churches as that’s what my step mother was raised as. I also went to a Wesleyan church and a non denominational church. Right now I’m a Soldier (member) in the Salvation Army. I have felt a call towards ministry and for a while I was being supported…the past year however its been slowing down until Labor Day where it halted entirely. I’ve chosen to rekindle my Faith by actively researching the Early Church and read the Acts of the Apostles. All of this including my prayers have led me to look into Eastern Orthodoxy. I do however, question some things.

1. How important is joy in an Orthodox service?(I believe Joy only comes from God and happiness is simply an emotion that can come from many sources)

2. Is there biblical evidence in support of Icons?

3. Do musical instruments have any place in Orthodox Christianity? (TSA places our brass bands on an esteemed level and I even play the snare drum. I love marching hymns.)

Thank you for reading and God Bless![/QUOTE

Scripture teaches that we are to search the scriptures ourselves to ensure what is being taught is in strict accordance to what is in the written word of God, the Holy Bible. It is what is being taught that is important. Music and singing unto the Lord is absolutely permissible but place the highest importance on what is being taught. Know your bible. God Bless.

 

[Kajiki]

I’ve received communication from Father Dennis Buck of the parish in Hagerstown! He needed my permission to share my message to others in the parish in order to find something we can do about this distance. He gave me spiritual advice concerning how to proceed before I can attend Divine Liturgy. He also said that he would like to send more literature my way if I would wish and he wanted to add me to the parish’s newsletter email list. So far I’ve only felt warmth from the Orthodox Church. I’m sure there are non warm welcoming people there but none I’ve met just yet.

 

[Anhelyna]

I've not met any

I've always been stunned at the kindness , warmth , support and friendship shown to me

 

[~Anastasia~]

I’ve received communication from Father Dennis Buck of the parish in Hagerstown! He needed my permission to share my message to others in the parish in order to find something we can do about this distance. He gave me spiritual advice concerning how to proceed before I can attend Divine Liturgy. He also said that he would like to send more literature my way if I would wish and he wanted to add me to the parish’s newsletter email list. So far I’ve only felt warmth from the Orthodox Church. I’m sure there are non warm welcoming people there but none I’ve met just yet.

This is all SUCH wonderful news!


I've met cautious people ... like a Russian grandma who had fled her country and the persecution there. But still, within a very short time (less than a couple of hours) they usually open up. She sat me at her table, introduced me to everyone, filled my plate with Russian food I'd never heard of. And I've met others exactly like her. One of the sweetest women in our parish is a Greek grandmother who doesn't speak English. She invited me to her home and her daughter was unexpectedly out, so our whole visit was spent with very little communication between us. I know Greek "Church words" but can't understand very much other than that. But I brought her blessed bread, and she fed me, and showed me all her icons and tried to tell me stories about many of the Saints, which I only partly understood. But my point is, even the ones that seem closed off can be for good reason, and can also be very open and welcoming quickly. It is the grandmas' job in most countries, btw, to keep everyone in line in Church, so they can seem severe at times, but even with all of that - they are very sweet underneath. (A couple it did take a little longer, but it was true for them as well. )

 

[ArmyMatt]

I’ve received communication from Father Dennis Buck of the parish in Hagerstown! He needed my permission to share my message to others in the parish in order to find something we can do about this distance. He gave me spiritual advice concerning how to proceed before I can attend Divine Liturgy. He also said that he would like to send more literature my way if I would wish and he wanted to add me to the parish’s newsletter email list. So far I’ve only felt warmth from the Orthodox Church. I’m sure there are non warm welcoming people there but none I’ve met just yet.

thanks be to God!

 

[☦Marius☦]

I think all those who love Christ and try to do his will struggle. As a young Baptist I had a very hard spiritual life, but that's not what I mean. Your walk as a non-Orthodox may have been a battle, as mine was- and there may have been temptations to leave Christianity altogether, or Church. But what I am talking about is constant spiritual resistance against you joining the Orthodox Church, and remaining faithful. It is another level of struggle entirely. Satan has actively tried to destroy the Orthodox Church, whether from heresy or persecution. The Church suffered the Turks, the Muslims, and the Communists, no other church has suffered the same amount of persecution. And if it isn't physical persecution then mental, I have even heard of monks being physically attacked by demons during prayer. It will be a slog to get from evangelical to Orthodox, because every step of the way doubts will come out of nowhere, and you will answer the doubts, and they will come back later even though you know they aren't valid. Orthodox life is a constant struggle to stay on the path. It is intimidating, but realize it is the ONLY way we can live and be guaranteed salvation. I lived all my life a hardcore Baptist, and now I know 100% in my heart that Orthodoxy is THE church.

Edit: I mean to say these things as encouragement. Resistance could only be expected on the right path.

 

[All4Christ]

I’ve received communication from Father Dennis Buck of the parish in Hagerstown! He needed my permission to share my message to others in the parish in order to find something we can do about this distance. He gave me spiritual advice concerning how to proceed before I can attend Divine Liturgy. He also said that he would like to send more literature my way if I would wish and he wanted to add me to the parish’s newsletter email list. So far I’ve only felt warmth from the Orthodox Church. I’m sure there are non warm welcoming people there but none I’ve met just yet.

So glad to hear this!

 

[Mary7]

(Response from the local priest to an email)
Not familar with this.. please explain. Matins? A morning worship service? Then Liturgy.. is that like 'Mass' or 'communion' and does this last an hour also? I could not take part in Mass yet so do people ever leave after the first hour?

On Sundays we have Orthros (Matins) at 9:00 and Divine Liturgy at 10:00, followed by a fellowship meal.

 

[~Anastasia~]

(Response from the local priest to an email)
Not familar with this.. please explain. Matins? A morning worship service? Then Liturgy.. is that like 'Mass' or 'communion' and does this last an hour also? I could not take part in Mass yet so do people ever leave after the first hour?

On Sundays we have Orthros (Matins) at 9:00 and Divine Liturgy at 10:00, followed by a fellowship meal.

Matins is a morning prayer service. Prayers, hymns, Scripture reading. Much teaching there from the hymns that cycle. It's typically 1 to 1-1/2 hours prior to Divine Liturgy.

Divine Liturgy is prayers, hymns, Scripture reading, usually a homily, and preparation and receiving Communion.

You can't receive communion, but no, folks don't leave before then. It's very worth being there. And fellowship after is when you can talk to folks, and if you let the priest know can hopefully meet with him after he finishes everything.

Hope that helps.

 

[All4Christ]

Matins is a morning prayer service. Prayers, hymns, Scripture reading. Much teaching there from the hymns that cycle. It's typically 1 to 1-1/2 hours prior to Divine Liturgy.

Divine Liturgy is prayers, hymns, Scripture reading, usually a homily, and preparation and receiving Communion.

You can't receive communion, but no, folks don't leave before then. It's very worth being there. And fellowship after is when you can talk to folks, and if you let the priest know can hopefully meet with him after he finishes everything.

Hope that helps.

We also have vigils which are matins combined with the vespers service. This mainly is on feast days. I’m not sure if the Greek and Antiochians also do that or if it is just the Slavonic tradition.

That said - his response would be referencing what Anastasia said

 

[~Anastasia~]

We also have vigils which are matins combined with the vespers service. This mainly is on feast days. I’m not sure if the Greek and Antiochians also do that or if it is just the Slavonic tradition.

That said - his response would be referencing what Anastasia said

We have them when someone is available to keep them. Always on Holy Friday (though it's amazing anyone has the strength by then - I don't stay since I live almost an hour away and have to sleep sooner or later - usually Saturday afternoon after Church and cooking lol).

Since we have only one priest and no deacon, and Father takes care of EVERYone, he generally can't.

 

[FenderTL5]

(Response from the local priest to an email)
Not familar with this.. please explain. Matins? A morning worship service? Then Liturgy.. is that like 'Mass' or 'communion' and does this last an hour also? I could not take part in Mass yet so do people ever leave after the first hour?

On Sundays we have Orthros (Matins) at 9:00 and Divine Liturgy at 10:00, followed by a fellowship meal.

Matins is a morning prayer service. Prayers, hymns, Scripture reading. Much teaching there from the hymns that cycle. It's typically 1 to 1-1/2 hours prior to Divine Liturgy.

Divine Liturgy is prayers, hymns, Scripture reading, usually a homily, and preparation and receiving Communion.

You can't receive communion, but no, folks don't leave before then. It's very worth being there. And fellowship after is when you can talk to folks, and if you let the priest know can hopefully meet with him after he finishes everything.

Hope that helps.

(funny story)
The very first time I went to Sunday services at an Orthodox church; my intention was to go to Matins and slip out before the Liturgy.

Not knowing that there is no pause/break between the two. We were at the Small Entrance before I realized we were already in Liturgy.

 

[All4Christ]

We also have vigils which are matins combined with the vespers service. This mainly is on feast days. I’m not sure if the Greek and Antiochians also do that or if it is just the Slavonic tradition.

That said - his response would be referencing what Anastasia said

I believe having matins after vespers with a vigil is due to the liturgical day starting around sunset. We have vespers (evening service), followed by matins (morning) and the first hours (of the hourly prayer cycle). I believe that an all night vigil in monasteries would end with Divine Liturgy...or that might be before matins? @ArmyMatt any clarification?

 

[☦Marius☦]

(Response from the local priest to an email)
Not familar with this.. please explain. Matins? A morning worship service? Then Liturgy.. is that like 'Mass' or 'communion' and does this last an hour also? I could not take part in Mass yet so do people ever leave after the first hour?

On Sundays we have Orthros (Matins) at 9:00 and Divine Liturgy at 10:00, followed by a fellowship meal.

I would absolutely recommend staying for coffee hour or the meal after liturgy. Community is as much a part of the church as the communion. I have never been in a more friendly room then my churches coffee hour. My first sunday I had invites to dinner/ thanksgiving, and one kind man offered me the GPS unit out of his car when I said I was getting lost going places. Even at the more ethnic focused parishes as long as you have an open mind, and respect them then you should be well received.

 

[☦Marius☦]

(funny story)
The very first time I went to Sunday services at an Orthodox church; my intention was to go to Matins and slip out before the Liturgy.

Not knowing that there is no pause/break between the two. We were at the Small Entrance before I realized we were already in Liturgy.

My first time was comical as well. I took my mom to a local Greek parish. The Matins ended up being in all greek and by the time the small entrance was around my mom was practically dragging me out so she could go to her Baptist church. She still uses that as an excuse not to go to church with me. "BUT I WENT TO AN ALL GREEK SERVICE WITH YOU ALREADY"

lol moms.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You positively made my day, GB. Made my day. I meant that, and I remember saying it!! And I was right, too! You're a blessing to this forum and the Church!!!!

@Mary7 and @Kajiki, one thing that you will find as you research Orthodoxy is that the people on this message board are some of the most caring people imaginable...all of the members on here genuinely care about your spiritual development. I honestly found their guidance and Christian love to be a very comforting thing when I was in your shoes. Honestly, if it were not for the Orthodox members of this forum, I would probably still be wallowing in a state of confusion at my old church (a group of people I still greatly admire, but disagree with on theology).

I hope that @gurneyhalleck1 does not mind, but I want to share on small sentence that he wrote to me in a private message at the tail end of 2014:

"Orthodoxy would be BETTER with you!"

Wow...this was like getting struck with an arrow in my soul.

I had long been pulled towards Eastern Orthodoxy, but the Christian love that came forth from this message was like nothing I had ever experienced before. As a Catholic, nobody seemed to care one way or another about my spiritual development (I had to teach myself about the faith after being poorly catechized as a teenager), and when Protestants asked me to join their churches it seemed like all they cared about was inflating their numbers before moving on to the next person.

When Gurney said that Orthodoxy would be better with me, he whether intentionally or not, started my conversion process towards the Orthodox Church. It has been three years since he wrote me that message, and I can confirm to you after officially joining the Orthodox Church, that I most certainly made the right decision.

Therefore, I want each of you to know that Orthodoxy would be BETTER with you as a part of it as well!

Please do follow the direction that God leads you, but if the holy spirit leads you to Orthodoxy, we would be blessed to have you.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I had a very legal understanding of the Faith as a Catholic. I was locked into the idea of wrath as anger and justice, and that Jesus was a satisfaction offering to stave off wrath and judgment and our just desserts of death and hell. I look back face-palming at how I prayed through the "Book of Indulgences" the CC has, and how I was trying to pray enough decades of the Rosary to 'earn' an indulgence over and over. I was in full-on guilt mode. No spiritual common sense. Pure legalism.

I really think looking at the word sin in Greek "hamartia" and seeing it as a marksman missing his target helped me a lot. Seeing the reality that God's wrath is an absence of Him, a withdrawal of His presence, our stubborn rejection of Him rather than His red-hot fiery anger, it changed much in my mind.

I used to see Adam and Eve being given the heave-ho boot from God. I saw God as one ticked-off landlord kicking His ungrateful weasel first created humans out of the garden of Eden because they were ingrate swine. They had it coming! As an Orthodox Christian I see a concerned Father God who knew that Adam and Eve were now in a state of sin. What would happen if this sinful couple ate of the Tree of Immortality? Well----THEY'D IMMORTALIZE SIN! God couldn't let them immortalize their sins and corrupt their destinies, so He banished them for their protection, isolated them from permanent destruction. Sure makes a difference to see through that lens.

Confession isn't legalistic for me anymore. It is now like going to the doctor and flushing out the fluid from my spiritual lungs and casting out the infection. I'm given some healing then I go to the Eucharist for my ultimate Medicine of Life.