Question for watchman and warners.

[Deba]

I want to know.

What do YOU do to minister to others. How many people have you shared the gospel with? How many miracles have you been used of God to perform? Healings?

I want to know what YOU have done for God, then I can decide

Show me in the bible where these requirements need to be met by all prophets?

 

[SharonL]

I still want to know where is the watchman scripture. Where is the scripture that says I have given you watchman to watch over you because you ain't as smart as them.

Please.

Here is one of the Scriptures:

Isaiah 21:6 For thus has the Lord said to me: Go (set yourself as) a watchman, let him declare what he sees.

 

[millerrod]

Eze 33:6 But if the Watchman see the sword come and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will i require at the watchmans hand.

The sword in this instance could be any threat; could be a real sword could be false doctrine could be misleading people could be natural disasters. could be any threat seen that could hurt or destroy. Elijah2 is only doing his job he sees what he seen as a threat or a possible threat and he has warned of the possibility of that threat. He has done his job he has been obident to God in what he believes is his calling that of a watchman. Is he a watchman ?? only him and God knows the true answer however by his seen fruit i to believe him to be a watchman and an obident one at that. Brother rod

 

[millerrod]

Show me in the bible where these requirements need to be met by all prophets?

I know you know this Deba. but for those that dont. God can and will and does use anyone he so chooses to deliver a message and it actually seems he uses the low of the low the turd of turds the dogs of dogs, did moses not at one time murder a man. its not about the prophet, its not about the man, its about God and Gods message maybe thats why he uses the dogs and the low because then the glory falls upon God alone and man follows God alone, elevate the prophet and man will follow the prophet. God forbid !! The main requirment for a prophet is OBIDENCE TO GOD [ and maybe a owning a cave to protect you from the stones should be a requirment lol ] because a prophet is a VESSEL and ONLY a vessel nothing more nothing less. God will use who God will use !! Brother rod

 

[probinson]

Interestingly enough, God was speaking to Ezekiel about being a watchman for Israel, not declaring an office of "watchman" in the body of Christ. (minor detail, I suppose...)

Further, it goes on to talk about the warning that Ezekiel is to give as the watchman, and that warning says this;

Ezekiel 33:12-16 (NLT)
12 “Son of man, give your people this message: The righteous behavior of righteous people will not save them if they turn to sin, nor will the wicked behavior of wicked people destroy them if they repent and turn from their sins. 13 When I tell righteous people that they will live, but then they sin, expecting their past righteousness to save them, then none of their righteous acts will be remembered. I will destroy them for their sins. 14 And suppose I tell some wicked people that they will surely die, but then they turn from their sins and do what is just and right. 15 For instance, they might give back a debtor’s security, return what they have stolen, and obey my life-giving laws, no longer doing what is evil. If they do this, then they will surely live and not die. 16 None of their past sins will be brought up again, for they have done what is just and right, and they will surely live.
​

That's a MIGHTY far cry from what "watchmen" today warn people about...

What's worse, is the alleged "watchman" will pull any scripture that has to do with warning others right-the-heck out of its context to try to prove the point that you should heed their warnings. In practice, it's generally a subtle form of manipulation and control.

Use your discernment. It's a great saying that people like to toss around, but never has it been more true than when listening to the self-appointed "watchmen" of today.

 

[cherokeehippie]

I haven't seen the rest of the thread yet...but just have to add something...Jesus said that there would be those who would claim to heal and deliver in HIS name...yet...didn't know Him. Also, Jesus said that the enemy would plant tares in the Kingdom...I don't go around saying 'so and so' isn't of HIm....but...it is important to test the spirits..and after some bad experiences I've gone thru, I realize, it is true that there are those not of the LORD doing ministry and we are to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves when it comes to these things...By the way...it should be obvious to everyone that I just mentioned stuff from the WORD that Jesus spoke!!!

I'm afraid that many who follow some of the names mentioned....don't spend time studying the WORD for themselves!!! No...it's not an anticharismatic thing to do...It is vital!!! I realize now how many neglect this!!!

Fact is...some of these ministers named...are high ranking freemasons...something that Christians shouldn't be a part of...We are to pray that the enemy doesn't have his way in the Body of Messiah....and as Believers, we are to study to show ourselves approve!! Study the WORD for yourselves...don't depend on tv ministers for meat of the word....WHat they give could be a mix. Even a mix of freemason/or new age doctrine in with God's Word...very unkosher!!! One thing I keep hearing 'parrotted' is 'going to the next level', etc....that sounds sooo new age to me....no where in scripture do I hear Jesus saying for us to 'go to the next level'....Relationship...drawing near to Him, and being connected to Him thru His Word...is what I see...Abiding in HIM, the Vine thru His WORD is what I see!!

 

[probinson]

It's interesting that you mention the tares, and I fully agree that there are tares growing amongst the wheat. But this is what Jesus said about those weeds;

Matthew 13:24-30 (NLT)
24 Here is another story Jesus told: “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. 25 But that night as the workers slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat, then slipped away. 26When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew. 27 “The farmer’s workers went to him and said, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds! Where did they come from?’ 28 “‘An enemy has done this!’ the farmer exclaimed. “‘Should we pull out the weeds?’ they asked. 29 “‘No,’ he replied, ‘you’ll uproot the wheat if you do. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds, tie them into bundles, and burn them, and to put the wheat in the barn.’”
​

IMO, there are too many people trying to pull out weeds and uprooting the wheat in the process.

 

[millerrod]

Interestingly enough, God was speaking to Ezekiel about being a watchman for Israel, not declaring an office of "watchman" in the body of Christ. (minor detail, I suppose...)

Further, it goes on to talk about the warning that Ezekiel is to give as the watchman, and that warning says this;

Ezekiel 33:12-16 (NLT)
12 “Son of man, give your people this message: The righteous behavior of righteous people will not save them if they turn to sin, nor will the wicked behavior of wicked people destroy them if they repent and turn from their sins. 13 When I tell righteous people that they will live, but then they sin, expecting their past righteousness to save them, then none of their righteous acts will be remembered. I will destroy them for their sins. 14 And suppose I tell some wicked people that they will surely die, but then they turn from their sins and do what is just and right. 15 For instance, they might give back a debtor’s security, return what they have stolen, and obey my life-giving laws, no longer doing what is evil. If they do this, then they will surely live and not die. 16 None of their past sins will be brought up again, for they have done what is just and right, and they will surely live.
​

That's a MIGHTY far cry from what "watchmen" today warn people about...

What's worse, is the alleged "watchman" will pull any scripture that has to do with warning others right-the-heck out of its context to try to prove the point that you should heed their warnings. In practice, it's generally a subtle form of manipulation and control.

Use your discernment. It's a great saying that people like to toss around, but never has it been more true than when listening to the self-appointed "watchmen" of today.

I would just like to say thank you Prob. for helping me learn and strengthen patience you have been such a blessing in my walk with the Lord. Every time i read your posts i can feel my patience strengthen. Thank you brother may the Lord always keep someone like you set before me. lucky for me i have a whole group of people such as yourself to help me practice and strengthen patience

 

[cherokeehippie]

Yeah...I agree....It would uproot young and immature believers...causing them to fall if they knew that their beloved minister was a tare!! That's why we are to study to show ourselves approved...I realize how Abba has protected me from the tares...yet allowed me to have bad experiences to open my eyes! Also...to have as a daily prayer..."Abba, keep me from deception. Open my eyes to see what is not of you, and what is!"...
There is truly that which is of HIM...Joy and laughter in the SPirit...and that which is not of Him...for example...I experience joy and 'drunk in the spirit' at a Native christian gathering...after getting over some fears...I had struggled with all of my life...It happened back at the bunkhouse..in the rain on the porch of the bunkhouse! Yet...there that, not of Him...for example...discerning a mocking spirit in an acquaintance of mine one time...when she laid sprawled out on the floor at a certain meeting we went to..I discern a mocking spirit laughing at me...it was weird.

 

[millerrod]

It's interesting that you mention the tares, and I fully agree that there are tares growing amongst the wheat. But this is what Jesus said about those weeds;

Matthew 13:24-30 (NLT)
24 Here is another story Jesus told: “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. 25 But that night as the workers slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat, then slipped away. 26When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew. 27 “The farmer’s workers went to him and said, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds! Where did they come from?’ 28 “‘An enemy has done this!’ the farmer exclaimed. “‘Should we pull out the weeds?’ they asked. 29 “‘No,’ he replied, ‘you’ll uproot the wheat if you do. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds, tie them into bundles, and burn them, and to put the wheat in the barn.’”
​

IMO, there are too many people trying to pull out weeds and uprooting the wheat in the process.

But then you have Ephesians 6:12 which states for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spirtual wickedness in high places.
It would seem false doctrine would fall within the framework of this teaching in scripture. And it would seem that standing against false doctrine is obidence to Gods word.
It seems the problem is when you stand against that which is false and scripture showing it is false is given, it offends and angers those who teach and support and follow the false doctrine.
They, because They follow the false doctrine see it as an attack upon flesh and blood, upon their person, because they have believed a lie.
They are unable and unwilling to see or admit that the attack was upon the false teaching and not upon the person.
They would rather give the appearence that the attack on false doctrine was an attack upon the person so as to discredit the person responsible for providing the scripture which revealed the false doctrine. Rod

 

[cherokeehippie]

AMEN brother!! Ya hit the nail on the head!!!

 

[Tamara224]

What do YOU do to minister to others. How many people have you shared the gospel with? How many miracles have you been used of God to perform? Healings?

I want to know what YOU have done for God, then I can decide (we all can decide) if your warnings should be given a second glance.

1 Corinthians 12:4-31

4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
12 The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
14 Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15 If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts.
And now I will show you the most excellent way.
​

 

[millerrod]

1 Corinthians 12:4-31

4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
12 The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
14 Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15 If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts.
And now I will show you the most excellent way.
​

pssssssssssst dont tell anyone but i think the most excellent way is found in 1Cor13:4-7

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

In my observation, the watchmen don't like to be watched...

Those logs must be awfully uncomfortable. Moriah knows how much it hurts to get a speck of dust in its eyes -- would hate to think of how it must feel with a whole log shoved in there. Goodness, such a person must not be able to see at all. Ya think?

On a serious note. Warnings tend to be more effective when they focus on actual issues/problems and not personalities. For example, instead of pointing fingers at someone personally, distil what you find to be questionable into a general idea and warn against that. For example, the dangers of a specific wrong teaching, or something. Don't focus on pointing fingers as to WHO bes teaching it, just warn about the false teaching itself. Others can, and will, "do the math" from there in their own time (or God's time as He leads them).

Then, instead of just catching one fish for them, you will have given them a fishing rod (of discernment) and tackle to use themselves.

 

[probinson]

The problem with watchmen is that their self-ascribed job title REQUIRES them to be right, since they've decided that they're watching out for you.

The thing is, we all need to be discerning and "watching", but there is a HUGE opportunity for pride when someone decides that they're right and must warn everyone else.

The watchmen is not generally open to correction, because they've convinced themselves that they are the mouthpiece of God. They'll go so far as to say that they're speaking FOR God. And when someone dares question them, they'll act as if you are questioning God Himself. But this is not generally true. Watchman sure do like to warn others about everyone else, but they can't handle the same criticism of themselves.

This is something that I've been accused of, but it's not true. On the handful of occasions that God has given me a specific message or warning to give to an individual, I give them the warning, and then it is up to them what they do with it. That is what someone who is being obedient to God will do, realizing that it is not our job to make people accept nor heed a warning.

Are there times when God will use others to warn us? Sure there are. And it may well come from the most unlikely of sources. But each person must discern FOR THEMSELVES what God is saying to them.

So I'll say it again, much to the dismay of the self-appointed watchmen. Be wary of watchmen who require you to unquestioningly accept their warnings.

 

[Father Rick]

The only reference in scripture to someone operating in the role of a "watchman" is that of Ezekiel, where God said to Ezekiel (regarding his prophetic call/office) "See, I have set you as a watchman on the wall..." It was part of his prophetic office and not something separate. The passage then continues to explain that the purpose/function of "watching" was to watch for attacks of the enemy and warn the people of coming attacks-- not to police the people.

Second, in the NT when specific instructions are given to how to deal with prophets-- 1 Corinthians is clear. "Let the prophets speak, 2 or 3, and let the other's judge." Any "prophetic" utterances given-- even those of "warning" are to be judged by the Body of Christ-- not just taken on face value. So even if 2 or 3 "watchmen" are giving a warning about a specific person/event, those warnings should be judged not just accepted on face value.

AND... those "warninings" (at least according to the pattern in scripture) are NOT warnings about other members of the Body, but rather about outside attacks coming. Those who are creating division within the Body are actually condemned by scripture. Paul speaks of those saying "I am of Paul", "I am of Apollos", etc. Other places, scripture clear speaks of those who are accusing others, backbiting, etc. Unfortunately, many self-proclaimed "watchmen" are actually people who may have genuine giftings but are not using them according to the biblical pattern... and are not open to correction/having their "warnings" judged as scripture commands. Instead of accepting when their warnings are judged as being wrong, they turn on those who disagree with them... and allow themselves to become angry, bitter, etc... while adopting a "martyr complex" of "well, people don't like me because I'm speaking the truth/I've got a word from God". This is not true of all, obviously, and I would never want it to be misunderstood that all behave this way-- but unfortunately many who are immature in their giftings (and physical age/length of time doesn't necessarily make one spiritually mature) do behave in this manner.

 

[cherokeehippie]

This is soooo weird...just went out to eat...and bumped into an acquaintance...she is a sunday school teacher at the local methodist church here in town....she believes in very unscriptural stuff!!! She believes in reincarnation!! and...when I had been talking about the illuminati, end time deception, antichrist etc...she had to tell me that she doesn't focus on negative stuff like that...but that she has focuses on what she learned in Eckart Tolle's "A New Earth" and is actually teaching this stuff in her Sunday School class!!!! I haven't studied the details but just enough to know it's New age garbage!!! He's the guy that Oprah's been touting. So....if we obviously know that there is new age junk being taught in church...that we are to be silent about it???? It is not neccessarily just 'watchmen' who are prideful and closed to correction!! Those who believe false doctrine, etc are the same way!

 

[probinson]

This is soooo weird...just went out to eat...and bumped into an acquaintance...she is a sunday school teacher at the local methodist church here in town....she believes in very unscriptural stuff!!! She believes in reincarnation!! and...when I had been talking about the illuminati, end time deception, antichrist etc...she had to tell me that she doesn't focus on negative stuff like that...but that she has focuses on what she learned in Eckart Tolle's "A New Earth" and is actually teaching this stuff in her Sunday School class!!!! I haven't studied the details but just enough to know it's New age garbage!!! He's the guy that Oprah's been touting. So....if we obviously know that there is new age junk being taught in church...that we are to be silent about it????

No,

You say she is an "acquaintance". What does that mean? Are you friends? Is it just someone you know by name?

Why does it matter? Because RELATIONSHIP is the key to WARNING. See, if I don't know you and you come out yelling "The sky is falling!", I'm probably not going to pay any attention to you. But if I know who you are, and I have a relationship with you, I'm far more likely to heed what you say.

That said, there is nothing wrong with warning people. But do so Lovingly, and realize that it is entirely and 100% up to the individual whether they accept and/or heed the warning that you give them.

 

[cherokeehippie]

I met her when I first came up here...to Mt. VIew...went to her house(she lives in a house Grandpa Jones used to live in and I wanted to see her house)...and we visited...and that's when she told me she believes in reincarnation....and doesn't mention it to others in her church..because she says they would disapprove(which she is right..about that...but she's definitely in the wrong about reincarnation!!)...She thought I was a fellow new age type person...I told her about some things in my life that the LORD did....
At the time...I debated going to see her again...yet felt a hesitancy...a check in my Spirit...I didn't know her too well at the time...didn't realize that she would be a sunday school teacher and be teaching stuff....I think I was also in a vulnerable time of my life, so the LORD had me back off from getting too close...in forming a friendship with her.

I felt it was not my place to speak to her in certain way, today, when I saw her again...she's also older than me...but figure I would speak to her indirectly in certain ways...about deception...how there would be deception in the last days...and shared a dream I had about a snake in the grass, etc.

Another thing...it is important to be aware of false doctrine, new age, masonic stuff...not be ignorant of these things....my eyes were open to certain things after I learned about certain stuff...and realizing yeah, there is masonic luciferian infiltration goin on.

 

[~RENEE~]

Since some of you believe that when God told one man to be a watchman that meant that there was an office of watchman.


10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Nope don't see that office.