Question for watchman and warners.

[Optimax]

The problem with watchmen is that their self-ascribed job title REQUIRES them to be right, since they've decided that they're watching out for you.

The thing is, we all need to be discerning and "watching", but there is a HUGE opportunity for pride when someone decides that they're right and must warn everyone else.

The watchmen is not generally open to correction, because they've convinced themselves that they are the mouthpiece of God. They'll go so far as to say that they're speaking FOR God. And when someone dares question them, they'll act as if you are questioning God Himself. But this is not generally true. Watchman sure do like to warn others about everyone else, but they can't handle the same criticism of themselves.

This is something that I've been accused of, but it's not true. On the handful of occasions that God has given me a specific message or warning to give to an individual, I give them the warning, and then it is up to them what they do with it. That is what someone who is being obedient to God will do, realizing that it is not our job to make people accept nor heed a warning.

Are there times when God will use others to warn us? Sure there are. And it may well come from the most unlikely of sources. But each person must discern FOR THEMSELVES what God is saying to them.

So I'll say it again, much to the dismay of the self-appointed watchmen. Be wary of watchmen who require you to unquestioningly accept their warnings.

The only reference in scripture to someone operating in the role of a "watchman" is that of Ezekiel, where God said to Ezekiel (regarding his prophetic call/office) "See, I have set you as a watchman on the wall..." It was part of his prophetic office and not something separate. The passage then continues to explain that the purpose/function of "watching" was to watch for attacks of the enemy and warn the people of coming attacks-- not to police the people.

Second, in the NT when specific instructions are given to how to deal with prophets-- 1 Corinthians is clear. "Let the prophets speak, 2 or 3, and let the other's judge." Any "prophetic" utterances given-- even those of "warning" are to be judged by the Body of Christ-- not just taken on face value. So even if 2 or 3 "watchmen" are giving a warning about a specific person/event, those warnings should be judged not just accepted on face value.

AND... those "warninings" (at least according to the pattern in scripture) are NOT warnings about other members of the Body, but rather about outside attacks coming. Those who are creating division within the Body are actually condemned by scripture. Paul speaks of those saying "I am of Paul", "I am of Apollos", etc. Other places, scripture clear speaks of those who are accusing others, backbiting, etc. Unfortunately, many self-proclaimed "watchmen" are actually people who may have genuine giftings but are not using them according to the biblical pattern... and are not open to correction/having their "warnings" judged as scripture commands. Instead of accepting when their warnings are judged as being wrong, they turn on those who disagree with them... and allow themselves to become angry, bitter, etc... while adopting a "martyr complex" of "well, people don't like me because I'm speaking the truth/I've got a word from God". This is not true of all, obviously, and I would never want it to be misunderstood that all behave this way-- but unfortunately many who are immature in their giftings (and physical age/length of time doesn't necessarily make one spiritually mature) do behave in this manner.

Two Great Post Probe and Father Rick.

I will add this.

I have observed over the years that those who believe themselves to be a "watchman" or "prophet" are generally young in the Lord(not necessarily age).

Have a desire to be used of the Lord, to be accepted, to be important , and use the watchman/prophet label in an attempt to obtain their desires.

Most generally grow out of it.

 

[~RENEE~]

Another thing...it is important to be aware of false doctrine, new age, masonic stuff...not be ignorant of these things....my eyes were open to certain things after I learned about certain stuff...and realizing yeah, there is masonic luciferian infiltration goin on.

Agreed but not everything is this.

 

[millerrod]

Scripture says the fulfilment of scripture is to Love God and Love all those around you. But yet some say that if we see false doctrine or really anything which may be harmful we should not warn those who we Love.
Something that is harmful could be an oncoming truck it could be a pointed gun it could be false errored doctrine could be a multitude of things that can cause both physical death or spiritual suffering.
As Deciples of Christ are we not all in one way or another watchman if we truly Love those around us.
Do we not all or should we not all warn those who we say we Love if we see a threat that may harm them.
My questian is how can you not be a watchman [ someone who warns of something harmful ] or a what you have labeled a warner and say you are a Deciple of Christ.
A deciple of Christ is someone who Loves God and everyone around them can you say you Love a person and not warn them of something false or harmful ?? i believe not
if you Love them you will warn them. So if your not in part a watchman and if your not in part a warner, can you say you Love, can you say you are a Deciple of Christ if you dont have the Love within you to warn and to watch for those you say you Love. Think about it !!

 

[millerrod]

Two Great Post Probe and Father Rick.

I will add this.

I have observed over the years that those who believe themselves to be a "watchman" or "prophet" are generally young in the Lord(not necessarily age).

Have a desire to be used of the Lord, to be accepted, to be important , and use the watchman/prophet label in an attempt to obtain their desires.

Most generally grow out of it.

If your example of judgement on others is developed by maturity may i remain inmature in Christ till His return

 

[probinson]

Scripture says the fulfilment of scripture is to Love God and Love all those around you. But yet some say that if we see false doctrine or really anything which may be harmful we should not warn those who we Love.

Can you show me who said that, and where?

Because I sure haven't seen anyone say anything that remotely resembles that...

You are attempting to discredit people by making false statements about them. In fact, I personally said the exact OPPOSITE of what you're suggesting not 20 minutes ago, when I said (emphasis added);

That said, there is nothing wrong with warning people. But do so Lovingly, and realize that it is entirely and 100% up to the individual whether they accept and/or heed the warning that you give them.

It's concerning that the only way for you to make your argument viable is for you to misrepresent what people are really saying.

 

[Optimax]

If your example of judgement on others is developed by maturity may i remain inmature in Christ till His return

When something like that is observed over and over it is a pattern that is difficult to miss.

I pray this scripture for you.

Eph 1:17-19

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to usward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
KJV

 

[millerrod]

Father Rick False Doctrine within the Body is an attack from the outside [satan ] which has found its way inside.
Its danger may be even greater because it is concealed within like an unseen cancer damageing from within.
The threat has never been and will never be from just the outside many of the most damaging threats come from the inside.
The Catholic Church is just one example in the past how a attack from within by errored doctrine did great long term damage.
That is just one example of threats from within [ and by the way i do believe the Catholic church has admited to and has attempted to fix those errors ] where attacks have came upon the Body from within the Body. We seen recently yet another example in Texas where a christian group who says they are a part of the Body, but yet there doctrine was in error and false.
Look at the damage it has done to so many young childrens life.
So if you dont mind spare trying to sell us that a threat only comes from outside the Body because sadly satan seems to have found the back door to many so called members of the Body of Christ.

 

[millerrod]

When something like that is observed over and over it is a pattern that is difficult to miss.

I pray this scripture for you.

Eph 1:17-19

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to usward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
KJV

I thank you for your prayers

 

[Optimax]

I thank you for your prayers

Your welcome.

If you would pray the same prayer for me.

 

[millerrod]

It is done !!

 

[lismore]

I want to know what YOU have done for God, then I can decide (we all can decide) if your warnings should be given a second glance.

Hello there

When the prophet Amos spoke out as a watchman the Israelites did not believe him because he was just a lowly shepherd. I dont think we should judge people based solely on superficial appearances. If we test what folks says against the plubline of God's word IMO thats a better way to go. We will truly only know what people have done for God on the day of judgement when the righteous judge gives every believer according to what they have done, not what they said they had done.

God Bless You

 

[Elijah2]

Watchman (Heb. tsopheh, shomer; Gr. phylax, teros) isone who guards a city or the headquarters of an army (1 Sam. 14:16; 2 Sam. 18:24-27). Such watchmen were set on city walls or on hilltops (Jer. 31:6), and they watched the gait of those who approached. God's prophets, preachers, and HIS disciples should also be HIS watchmen to warn HIS people (Isa. 21:6).

Today, the modern watchmen have no walls or hilltops to watch from, but at the doors of their churches. Today, the enemy infiltrates the doors of the churches, because of the lack of watchmen.

Most watchmen of the 21st Century are elderly, experienced, and mature Christians.

Be blessed.

 

[Optimax]

Most watchmen of the 21st Century are elderly, experienced, and mature Christians.

Be blessed.

Mature Christians have realized that they are not nor can not take the place of the Holy Spirit in Christians lives.

Therefore they have also realized that they are not a watchman as there is no such NT gift, office, or calling.

There are also those who are so identified with their attempt at "being" a watchman they deceive themselves and hold on to their "position".

 

[~RENEE~]

Mature Christians have realized that they are not nor can not take the place of the Holy Spirit in Christians lives.

Therefore they have also realized that they are not a watchman as there is no such NT gift, office, or calling.

There are also those who are so identified with their attempt at "being" a watchman they deceive themselves and hold on to their "position".

 

[Faithful Love]

Conjunction junction, what's your function....

Tickled my funny bone! Didn't think you were old enough to remember that old saying!

 

[probinson]

Mature Christians have realized that they are not nor can not take the place of the Holy Spirit in Christians lives.

Now THAT is some good stuff!

 

[probinson]

Tickled my funny bone! Didn't think you were old enough to remember that old saying!

That probinson guy... he'll surprise you sometimes...

 

[Faithful Love]

So much of this still boils down to: if Jesus is being preached, YAY!

Phil 1:18
What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes,and will rejoice.

NLT
But that doesn’t matter. Whether their motives are false or genuine, the message about Christ is being preached either way, so I rejoice. And I will continue to rejoice.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

What's worse, is the alleged "watchman" will pull any scripture that has to do with warning others right-the-heck out of its context to try to prove the point that you should heed their warnings. In practice, it's generally a subtle form of manipulation and control.

Use your discernment. It's a great saying that people like to toss around, but never has it been more true than when listening to the self-appointed "watchmen" of today.

Amen and amen. You do see clearly here.
How come you bes no more a mod here?

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

pssssssssssst dont tell anyone but i think the most excellent way is found in 1Cor13:4-7

Ssshhh!! You found it!