Pyramids and the flood

[Doug Brents]

We are talking about the "Breath of Life". What are you talking about?

You and David might have been talking about the breath of life, but we were talking about the global, all encompassing nature of the Flood, and its destroying ALL life on the planet, except what was in the Ark.

 

[David Lamb]

You and David might have been talking about the breath of life, but we were talking about the global, all encompassing nature of the Flood, and its destroying ALL life on the planet, except what was in the Ark.

Just to save misunderstanding, my only mention of "the breath of life" was in quoting Genesis 7:21-23, where the phrase occurs in describing how all human and animal life outside the ark died in the worldwide flood.

 

[Diamond72]

You and David might have been talking about the breath of life, but we were talking about the global, all encompassing nature of the Flood, and its destroying ALL life on the planet, except what was in the Ark.

Oh you are talking about Pangea. Yes, I did and extensive study on the Rocky mountains and all the dinosaur remains that they find in flood deposits. Actually 50 years ago contiental drift was just a theory. Now they have done extensive research and plate technotics is considered to be science.

People have a problem making a connection making a connection between Noah's flood and what took place at Pangea. Jesus talks about two events at the same time when He is talking about the temple being tore down and what will happen at the end of our current Church age.

 

[Diamond72]

Just to save misunderstanding, my only mention of "the breath of life" was in quoting Genesis 7:21-23, where the phrase occurs in describing how all human and animal life outside the ark died in the worldwide flood.

All that had the breath of life that we read about in Genesis 2 7.

Genesis 2:7
Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.

Genesis 7:22 Of all that was on dry land, everything that had the breath of life in its nostrils died.

 

[David Lamb]

All that had the breath of life that we read about in Genesis 2 7.

Genesis 2:7
Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.

Genesis 7:22 Of all that was on dry land, everything that had the breath of life in its nostrils died.

But it must mean more than those just created in Genesis 2. The Genesis 7 verses include the phrase "all living things that were on the face of the ground," not just all living things that were mentioned back in Genesis 2.

 

[Diamond72]

But it must mean more than those just created in Genesis 2. The Genesis 7 verses include the phrase "all living things that were on the face of the ground," not just all living things that were mentioned back in Genesis 2.

Adam lived 6,000 years ago. The beginning of mankind, or the emergence of modern humans (Homo sapiens), is generally believed to have occurred in Africa around 300,000 years ago. Early humans initially lived as hunter-gatherers and began migrating out of Africa during the Last Ice Age, eventually populating most of the Earth by about 12,000 years ago. The transition from hunter-gatherer societies to food producers, known as the Neolithic Revolution,

Eden was a biodiverse ecosystem. You can read about that in your Biology book that is required reading for High School Graduates. There is NO conflict between Biology and the Bible. They harmonize just fine and people need to quit trying to say they conflict in some way when they don't.

Of course, not everyone is a Theistic Evolutionist. So I suppose they have their own beliefs about this.

 

[David Lamb]

Adam lived 6,000 years ago. The beginning of mankind, or the emergence of modern humans (Homo sapiens), is generally believed to have occurred in Africa around 300,000 years ago. Early humans initially lived as hunter-gatherers and began migrating out of Africa during the Last Ice Age, eventually populating most of the Earth by about 12,000 years ago. The transition from hunter-gatherer societies to food producers, known as the Neolithic Revolution,

Eden was a biodiverse ecosystem. You can read about that in your Biology book that is required reading for High School Graduates. There is NO conflict between Biology and the Bible. They harmonize just fine and people need to quit trying to say they conflict in some way when they don't.

Of course, not everyone is a Theistic Evolutionist. So I suppose they have their own beliefs about this.

Yes, I for one don't see God in the bible saying that He created Adam and Eve out of some pre-existing "Homo Sapiens."

 

[Diamond72]

Yes, I for one don't see God in the bible saying that He created Adam and Eve out of some pre-existing "Homo Sapiens."

We read about the "pre-existing 'Homo Sapiens" in Genesis 1 on the sixth day. The English Bible is NOT a translation of the Hebrew. The English Bible comes from the Greek translation of the Hebrew. They made a mistake when they said "Adams Rib" What this means is the side of Adam. God took a single cell organism and made male and female. He divided them so He could join them back together again in Him.

Adams Rib: The Hebrew word often translated as "rib" is "צלע" (tsela), which can also mean "side." Some scholars argue that the traditional interpretation of "rib" may not fully capture the original meaning. Interpreting "tsela" as "side" can suggest a more profound connection between man and woman.

WHY did God make male and female, man and women? We are told that marriage is type of Christ and His church.

• Genesis 1:27 (NIV): "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them."
• Genesis 2:24 (NIV): "That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh."

Genesis 1:27 says mankind. Genesis 2:24 says man that we all know as Adam in the Garden of Eden. Take a look at verse 2:4. "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens".

The key here is "generations". Usually, the word we use for that is genealogy. You can have your DNA tested to see how accurate it can be.

The genetic history of the Middle East is the subject of research within the fields of human population genomics, archaeogenetics and Middle Eastern studies. Researchers use Y-DNA, mtDNA, and other autosomal DNA tests to identify the genetic history of ancient and modern populations of Egypt, Persia, Mesopotamia, Anatolia, Arabia, the Levant, and other areas.

We have History, Science and the Bible. They all agree, there is no conflict anywhere. IN FACT History, Science and Archeology shows us how accurate and True our Bible is.

 

[Doug Brents]

Oh you are talking about Pangea. Yes, I did and extensive study on the Rocky mountains and all the dinosaur remains that they find in flood deposits. Actually 50 years ago contiental drift was just a theory. Now they have done extensive research and plate technotics is considered to be science.

People have a problem making a connection making a connection between Noah's flood and what took place at Pangea. Jesus talks about two events at the same time when He is talking about the temple being tore down and what will happen at the end of our current Church age.

I am not following your here.

Yes, Pangea was the probably the configuration of the land (all the land joined in one place) before the Flood. When the global, all encompassing Flood that destroyed all land and air animals from the entire face of the Earth occurred, this single landmass was split. And I believe that within the year while the Flood waters presided over the Earth, the land was moved to the approximate positions they are in today. Sure, the tectonic plates are still moving, but I believe that they were moved a lot faster and more violently during the Flood.

 

[David Lamb]

We read about the "pre-existing 'Homo Sapiens" in Genesis 1 on the sixth day.

Do we? Where? We are told that God made Adam from "the dust of the ground", not from "pre-existing 'Homo Sapiens":

“And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.” (Ge 2:7 NKJV)

The English Bible is NOT a translation of the Hebrew. The English Bible comes from the Greek translation of the Hebrew. They made a mistake when they said "Adams Rib" What this means is the side of Adam. God took a single cell organism and made male and female. He divided them so He could join them back together again in Him.

It depends which version you read. The Authorised (King James) version, and the New King James Version, for example, and probably others, translated the Old Testament from Hebrew, not the Greek Septuagint. Anyway, neither "Adam's rib" nor "Adam's side" implies pre-existing Homo Sapiens.

Adams Rib: The Hebrew word often translated as "rib" is "צלע" (tsela), which can also mean "side." Some scholars argue that the traditional interpretation of "rib" may not fully capture the original meaning. Interpreting "tsela" as "side" can suggest a more profound connection between man and woman.

WHY did God make male and female, man and women? We are told that marriage is type of Christ and His church.

• Genesis 1:27 (NIV): "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them."
• Genesis 2:24 (NIV): "That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh."

Genesis 1:27 says mankind. Genesis 2:24 says man that we all know as Adam in the Garden of Eden. Take a look at verse 2:4. "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens".

The key here is "generations". Usually, the word we use for that is genealogy. You can have your DNA tested to see how accurate it can be.

The genetic history of the Middle East is the subject of research within the fields of human population genomics, archaeogenetics and Middle Eastern studies. Researchers use Y-DNA, mtDNA, and other autosomal DNA tests to identify the genetic history of ancient and modern populations of Egypt, Persia, Mesopotamia, Anatolia, Arabia, the Levant, and other areas.

We have History, Science and the Bible. They all agree, there is no conflict anywhere. IN FACT History, Science and Archeology shows us how accurate and True our Bible is.

 

[Diamond72]

Do we? Where? We are told that God made Adam from "the dust of the ground", not from "pre-existing 'Homo Sapiens":

The biblical account of creation in Genesis does indeed say that God made Adam from "the dust of the ground" (Genesis 2:7). This phrase emphasizes the humble origin of humans and their connection to the earth.

Science and Stardust:​

In scientific terms, it's fascinating to note that all the elements that make up our bodies (carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, etc.) were originally formed in the heart of stars. When these stars exploded as supernovas, they scattered these elements across the universe. This cosmic dust eventually coalesced to form planets, including Earth. Hence, scientists often poetically refer to the matter that makes up living beings as "stardust."

Harmony between Science and Faith:​

• Common Ground: Both the biblical narrative and scientific explanations highlight a profound connection between humans and the natural world.
• Different Perspectives: The biblical account focuses on theological and moral teachings, while science provides a detailed, empirical understanding of the physical processes involved in creation.

The idea that we are made of stardust can add a layer of wonder to the biblical description, showing a harmony between faith and science. This perspective can deepen our appreciation of both the spiritual and physical aspects of our existence.

 

[Diamond72]

Anyway, neither "Adam's rib" nor "Adam's side" implies pre-existing Homo Sapiens.

You have never studied History? You have never studied science? I took Ancient History and Biology in High School and I have keep up with the new research and discovers for the last 50 years.

Archaeology provides a unique perspective on history by uncovering physical evidence from past civilizations. This evidence helps us understand how people lived, their cultures, and their interactions with the environment. Here are some key aspects of the archaeological perspective:

Uncovering Physical Evidence:​

• Artifacts: Objects made or used by humans, such as tools, pottery, and jewelry, offer insights into daily life, technology, and trade.
• Structures: Buildings, roads, and other structures reveal information about architecture, urban planning, and social organization.
• Human Remains: Skeletons and burial sites provide data on health, diet, and demographics.

Interpreting the Past:​

• Context: Archaeologists analyze the context in which artifacts are found to understand their use and significance.
• Chronology: Establishing timelines through dating methods helps place findings in historical context.
• Cultural Practices: Examining artifacts and structures helps reconstruct cultural practices, beliefs, and social structures.

Contributions to History:​

• Filling Gaps: Archaeology fills gaps in written records, especially for periods or regions with limited historical documentation.
• Challenging Assumptions: New discoveries can challenge existing historical narratives and lead to revised understandings of the past.
• Holistic View: Combining archaeological evidence with historical texts and other sources provides a more comprehensive view of history.

Scientific Perspective:​

• Human Evolution: Science indicates that modern humans, Homo sapiens, evolved over hundreds of thousands of years. The oldest fossils of anatomically modern humans date back about 300,000 years.
• Genetic Evidence: Genetic studies suggest that all modern humans share a common ancestor, often referred to as "Mitochondrial Eve," who lived in Africa around 150,000 to 200,000 years ago.

what is the history perspective based on archeology

Archaeology provides a unique perspective on history by uncovering physical evidence from past civilizations. This evidence helps us understand how people lived, their cultures, and their interactions with the environment. Here are some key aspects of the archaeological perspective:

Uncovering Physical Evidence:​

• Artifacts: Objects made or used by humans, such as tools, pottery, and jewelry, offer insights into daily life, technology, and trade.
• Structures: Buildings, roads, and other structures reveal information about architecture, urban planning, and social organization.
• Human Remains: Skeletons and burial sites provide data on health, diet, and demographics.

Interpreting the Past:​

• Context: Archaeologists analyze the context in which artifacts are found to understand their use and significance.
• Chronology: Establishing timelines through dating methods helps place findings in historical context.
• Cultural Practices: Examining artifacts and structures helps reconstruct cultural practices, beliefs, and social structures.

Contributions to History:​

• Filling Gaps: Archaeology fills gaps in written records, especially for periods or regions with limited historical documentation.
• Challenging Assumptions: New discoveries can challenge existing historical narratives and lead to revised understandings of the past.
• Holistic View: Combining archaeological evidence with historical texts and other sources provides a more comprehensive view of history.

Examples:​

• Ancient Civilizations: Excavations of ancient cities like Pompeii and Troy have provided detailed information about Roman and Greek societies.
• Prehistoric Times: Discoveries of early human tools and fossils have shed light on human evolution and migration patterns.

Archaeology is a dynamic field that continuously contributes to our understanding of human history.

 

[Diamond72]

You and David might have been talking about the breath of life, but we were talking about the global, all encompassing nature of the Flood, and its destroying ALL life on the planet, except what was in the Ark.

There have been six extinctions in the life of this planet.

The "Big Five" Mass Extinctions:​

1. Ordovician-Silurian Extinction (~444 million years ago):
   • Cause: Likely linked to climate change and sea level changes.
   • Impact: Around 85% of marine species went extinct.
2. Late Devonian Extinction (~375-359 million years ago):
   • Cause: Uncertain, but possibly linked to climate change, asteroid impacts, or volcanic activity.
   • Impact: Around 75% of species, particularly marine life, were affected.
3. Permian-Triassic Extinction (~252 million years ago):
   • Cause: Possibly massive volcanic eruptions, climate change, and ocean anoxia.
   • Impact: About 96% of marine species and 70% of terrestrial vertebrates went extinct, earning it the nickname "The Great Dying."
4. Triassic-Jurassic Extinction (~201 million years ago):
   • Cause: Likely volcanic activity and climate change.
   • Impact: Around 80% of species, paving the way for the rise of dinosaurs.
5. Cretaceous-Paleogene Extinction (~66 million years ago):
   • Cause: Asteroid impact, volcanic activity, and climate change.
   • Impact: About 75% of species, including all non-avian dinosaurs, went extinct.

The Sixth Extinction:​

• Current Epoch: Many scientists argue that we are in the midst of a sixth mass extinction, driven by human activities.
  • Causes: Habitat destruction, climate change, pollution, overexploitation, and invasive species.
  • Impact: Accelerated loss of biodiversity, with significant declines in populations of many species.

 

[Doug Brents]

There have been six extinctions in the life of this planet.

The "Big Five" Mass Extinctions:​

1. Ordovician-Silurian Extinction (~444 million years ago):
   • Cause: Likely linked to climate change and sea level changes.
   • Impact: Around 85% of marine species went extinct.
2. Late Devonian Extinction (~375-359 million years ago):
   • Cause: Uncertain, but possibly linked to climate change, asteroid impacts, or volcanic activity.
   • Impact: Around 75% of species, particularly marine life, were affected.
3. Permian-Triassic Extinction (~252 million years ago):
   • Cause: Possibly massive volcanic eruptions, climate change, and ocean anoxia.
   • Impact: About 96% of marine species and 70% of terrestrial vertebrates went extinct, earning it the nickname "The Great Dying."
4. Triassic-Jurassic Extinction (~201 million years ago):
   • Cause: Likely volcanic activity and climate change.
   • Impact: Around 80% of species, paving the way for the rise of dinosaurs.
5. Cretaceous-Paleogene Extinction (~66 million years ago):
   • Cause: Asteroid impact, volcanic activity, and climate change.
   • Impact: About 75% of species, including all non-avian dinosaurs, went extinct.

The Sixth Extinction:​

• Current Epoch: Many scientists argue that we are in the midst of a sixth mass extinction, driven by human activities.
  • Causes: Habitat destruction, climate change, pollution, overexploitation, and invasive species.
  • Impact: Accelerated loss of biodiversity, with significant declines in populations of many species.

The whole universe (including the Earth) has only been around for 5923 years, and we are told of the ONLY mass extinction event which occurred in the year 1658 after Creation (4265 years ago). All of the evidence for mass extinctions you list above is evidence of the Flood, which God caused, and was not caused by any asteroid, volcanic eruption, or "climate change" (which is a false proposition all together). God has promised that there will not be any change to the world wide seasons (there will ALWAYS be planting and harvesting, summer and winter, day and night) until the whole universe is consumed in fire and destroyed completely (Gen 8:22, 2 Pet 3:10, Rev 20:11, 21:1).

 

[Diamond72]

The whole universe (including the Earth) has only been around for 5923 years, and we are told of the ONLY mass extinction event which occurred in the year 1658 after Creation (4265 years ago)

Yes, I have a copy of Bishop Ussher book. It is more like an encyclopedia.

The epistle to James Ussher's book, "Annals of the Old Testament, deduced from the first origins of the world", was written by John Lightfoot. Lightfoot was a contemporary of Ussher and also a prominent biblical scholar. His work, "The Harmony of the Gospels", was published in 1642-1644 and provided a similar chronology to Ussher's, though with some differences in dates.

We are told: "Who can number the sands of the sea, and the drops of rain and the days of eternity".

I go by Bishop Ussher that Adam was born in 4004 BC. From there we can see the Church age began in 29 AD. The math is fairly easy to do. Ussher himself did not know if time had a beginning or always was. WE know more today.

There were many, many, many beginning with Adam and Eve 6,000 years ago. There is a lot to study and learn about Science and History in addition to what we read in our Bible. We know a lot more than Bishop Ussher, yet his book still sets a standard for us today.

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes, I have a copy of Bishop Ussher book. It is more like an encyclopedia.

The epistle to James Ussher's book, "Annals of the Old Testament, deduced from the first origins of the world", was written by John Lightfoot. Lightfoot was a contemporary of Ussher and also a prominent biblical scholar. His work, "The Harmony of the Gospels", was published in 1642-1644 and provided a similar chronology to Ussher's, though with some differences in dates.

We are told: "Who can number the sands of the sea, and the drops of rain and the days of eternity".

I go by Bishop Ussher that Adam was born in 4004 BC. From there we can see the Church age began in 29 AD. The math is fairly easy to do. Ussher himself did not know if time had a beginning or always was. WE know more today.

There were many, many, many beginning with Adam and Eve 6,000 years ago. There is a lot to study and learn about Science and History in addition to what we read in our Bible. We know a lot more than Bishop Ussher, yet his book still sets a standard for us today.

I don't know any of those people. I did the research, counted the years, etc. for myself. Adam was not born, but was created in 3899BC. I think Ussher must have put the Pharaoh of the Exodus as a different Pharaoh than I (and most scholars) believe him to be.

There was only one beginning to the universe, time, and mankind. And that beginning was when God created the entire world of existence in 6 days. Adam was created on the 6th day, and was 950 years old when he died, which means there could not have been millions/billions of years in the 6th day. It was just one evening and one morning, as were the other 5 days.

 

[Diamond72]

I don't know any of those people. I did the research, counted the years, etc. for myself.

Yes, I did the math myself. It is pretty easy from Adam to Abraham. More difficult after that. We can see that Noah's father and Adam were alive at the same time for a short amount of time.

I think Ussher must have put the Pharaoh of the Exodus

James Ussher's chronology places the Exodus around April 1491 BC. He does not name a Pharaoh. AI says the Pharaoh at that time was Thutmose II. It could also be Amenhotep depending on the timeline you use.

Adam was created on the 6th day, and was 950 years old when he died,

Adam was 930 years old when he died. The Rabbi say he gave 70 years to David. In the Bible, we are told that Adam lived to be 930 years old (Genesis 5:5). King David, on the other hand, lived for 70 years (2 Samuel 5:4-5).

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes, I did the math myself. It is pretty easy from Adam to Abraham. More difficult after that. We can see that Noah's father and Adam were alive at the same time for a short amount of time.

James Ussher's chronology places the Exodus around April 1491 BC. He does not name a Pharaoh. AI says the Pharaoh at that time was Thutmose II. It could also be Amenhotep depending on the timeline you use.

I put the exodus at 1446BC (2454 after Creation). Which is 430 years after Abraham left Ur in 1876BC (2024 after Creation) when he was 75 (Exo 12:40, Gal 3:17). Moses was then born 80 before 1446BC, which would put his birth in 1526BC. So, while we don't know the age that Levi had Kohath, or that Kohath had Amram or that Amram had Aaron or Moses, we do know that what year Moses was born, and can approximate the ages of Kohath and Amram, seeing as how Levi lived 137 years total, Kohath lived 133 years total and Amram lived 137 years total (Exo :16-20).

We also know when Isaac and Jacob were born (Gen 21:5, 25:26), and we know that Joseph Jacob stood before Pharaoh when he was 130, in the second year of Famine (Gen 47:8-9). Nine years before that (when Jacob was 121), the years of Plenty began when Joseph was 30. That means that Joseph was born when Jacob was 91 (Gen 41:46). The first 11 sons of Jacob (all except Benjamin) were born in the seven years Jacob served for Rachel (Gen 30:25). So Jacob's first born was born within a year of his marrying both Rachel and Leah (when he was 85), and the first 11 were all born before he was 92.

Adam was 930 years old when he died.

Thank you for the correction. I didn't double check my memory before I hit post.

 

[Diamond72]

2454 after Creation

• 2: Represents balance, harmony, cooperation, and relationships. It is often seen as a number of duality and partnership.
• 4: Symbolizes stability, structure, and practicality. It is associated with foundations, organization, and discipline.
• 5: Indicates change, adventure, freedom, and flexibility. It often brings energy, dynamism, and a sense of curiosity.
• 4: Again, this number brings emphasis on stability and structure.

More and more I see how exact and precise the Bible is. It is starting to look like Jesus was born 4,000 years after Adam was created. Then they both died 33 years when Adam sinned and Jesus died at Calvery. So we know when the Church age ends in 2029. The problem is we are told no one knows when. But are we really told that?

Matthew 24

2“Do you see all these things?” He replied. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

3While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”

Notice they say WHEN will this happen AND "sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?” Are they really asking when is the end of the age. OR are they asking WHEN will the temple be tore down. IF the temple was tore down in 70 AD then we should know. Only Jesus was born in 4 BC so that means the temple was tore down 74 years after His birth. Clearly a number no one other than God knows.

We are told: John 2:1 "On the third day a wedding took place" So does the church age end and the kingdom age begin exactly 2000 years from the beginning of the church?

​

 

[JSRG]

We read about the "pre-existing 'Homo Sapiens" in Genesis 1 on the sixth day. The English Bible is NOT a translation of the Hebrew. The English Bible comes from the Greek translation of the Hebrew. They made a mistake when they said "Adams Rib" What this means is the side of Adam. God took a single cell organism and made male and female. He divided them so He could join them back together again in Him.

Adams Rib: The Hebrew word often translated as "rib" is "צלע" (tsela), which can also mean "side." Some scholars argue that the traditional interpretation of "rib" may not fully capture the original meaning. Interpreting "tsela" as "side" can suggest a more profound connection between man and woman.

The claim that "The English Bible is NOT a translation of the Hebrew" is incorrect. There is obviously no single "English Bible" to begin with, but all of the most popular translations (NIV, KJV, NLT, ESV, NKJV, CSB, etc.) translate the Old Testament from the Hebrew/Aramaic, not the Greek. There are actually only a few translations of the Greek Old Testament (known as the Septuagint or LXX) into English, but none of them are in particularly wide use.

Actually, even if the English translations were from the Greek, this distinction doesn't make a lot of sense, because the word used in the Greek of Genesis 2:21 is πλευρά (pleura), and it can mean side or rib as well.