Pyramids and the flood

[SkyWriting]

There may be several grains of truth to the flood mythology of Noah and similar mythologies from elsewhere in the ancient Middle East. About 25 years ago it was discovered (" Noah's Flood" by Ryan and Pitman) that in antiquity the Black Sea was a freshwater lake with a water level at least 155 meters (510 feet) below its present level. It was cut off from the Mediterranean Sea by a silt plug in the Straits of Bosporus. This plug broke through about 5600 BC due primarily to the dramatic rise in sea levels caused by the melting that ended the last ice age.. It created an immense waterfall whose sound was most likely audible for 100 or more miles. The Black Sea basin filled to its present level over a period of several weeks. It is estimated that the shore line advanced at the rate of a mile or more per day. For the people living around the lake it was a catastrophe of immense magnitude. It was likely the single most memorable flood in all of human history. The racial memory of this event probably inspired the Gilgamesh epic which in turn inspired the Noah narrative in the Bible. The evidence for this flood is scientifically solid. This prompted the National Geographic Society to finance an underwater search along the ancient shoreline for evidence of pre-flood human habitation. This search has been successful! A settlement has been found at a depth of 90 meters approximately 12 miles off the coast of Turkey. It is in a remarkable state of preservation because it is located in an area of the Black Sea where the water is completely devoid of oxygen with the effect that biological decomposition does not take place. This means that wooden artifacts such as tools, planks, housing beams etc are preserved intact. What is also quite amazing is that while there is solid scientific evidence for this local flood some 7600 YBP, there is no evidence at all for a worldwide flood just 4300 YBP. One would think that a more recent, more catastrophic event would have wiped out evidence of the earlier Black Sea event. There is also evidence for a similar event causing the flooding of the Gulf of Arabia about 10,000 YBP.

No miracles in scripture have left behind signatures in nature.
That why "Faith" is asked for by name.

 

[JackRT]

No miracles in scripture have left behind signatures in nature.
That why "Faith" is asked for by name.

My post had nothing to do with miracles or faith.

 

[SkyWriting]

My post had nothing to do with miracles or faith.

The Great Flood is listed as one of God's miracles in a book about Faith we call the Bible.
Some have Faith in a philosophy called 'Science" as well.

 

[OzSpen]

And the physical evidence for such a flood is even weaker.

Jack,

Now provide us with the 'weaker' evidence for Noah's flood.

Oz

 

[JackRT]

Jack,

Now provide us with the 'weaker' evidence for Noah's flood.

Oz

Here is the evidence for a world-wide flood ----> " "

 

[OzSpen]

Here is the evidence for a world-wide flood ----> " "

Jack,

That's a cynical response.

So, are you ignoring this evidence: Evidence found of Noah's ark flood victims? The Guardian (UK) reported that Robert Ballard,found evidence of a great flood. They summarise Ballard's conclusion:

But he does not claim to have found the landscape of Noah. " We really cannot say in any way, shape or form that this is the biblical flood. All we can say is that there has been a major flood, that people were living here when it happened. We prefer to stick with the facts -and who knows where those facts will lead us."​

Elsewhere, Ballard's evidence is stated:

Four hundred feet below the surface, they unearthed an ancient shoreline, proof to Ballard that a catastrophic event did happen in the Black Sea. By carbon dating shells found along the shoreline, Ballard said he believes they have established a timeline for that catastrophic event, which he estimates happened around 5,000 BC. Some experts believe this was around the time when Noah's flood could have occurred (source).​

Another assessment is: 'Evidence for total submersion of the continents is widespread on Earth. Water deposition is a feature of the geological column, but one layer in particular—the Cretaceous layer—points to a transition between the pre- and post-catastrophic events in the Flood model' (The biblical flood).

Seems like your anti-biblical authority worldview causes some myopia.

Rapid washout during a flood in Bryce Canyon.

Oz

 

[joshua 1 9]

Personally, I read the Bible as saying it was worldwide, and that's good enough for me.

The world wide flood is a shadow and a type. Of course for Noah his world was flooded.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Here is the evidence for a world-wide flood ----> " "

The evidence for a world wide flood goes back to the Super Continent of Pangaea. This is a time when the dinosaurs began to devour each other. Galations 5:15 "But if you bite and devour one another, be careful that you do not consume one another." God never intended for His creation to destroy itself. 1Peter5:8 "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: "

 

[RageOfAngels]

Jesus seemed to believe in a world wide flood (in Luke 17) so that's good enough for me.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Jesus seemed to believe in a world wide flood (in Luke 17) so that's good enough for me.

Where in Luke 17 does Jesus say that Noah's flood was a world wide flood? I see the word "ALL" but that is a reference to the corrupt generation which would be the descendants of Adam.

 

[RageOfAngels]

I see the descendants of Adam as every living human on earth, so wherever they may be. Genesis says "every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth". It seems crazy to me that Jesus would have thought otherwise.

 

[SkyWriting]

I see the descendants of Adam as every living human on earth, so wherever they may be. Genesis says "every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth". It seems crazy to me that Jesus would have thought otherwise.

Obviously it was a generalization becasue fish and insects are excluded.
So it was just a general statement of what all died from the human perspective.

 

[mark kennedy]

When were the pyramids built? Was it before or after the flood?

I think after, but the Spinx I think, due to the effects attributed to erosion indicates it was there before the flood.

 

[SkyWriting]

If the flood had no physical affect on the planet, then how would it have an affect on people of the world? The flood must have had a physical affect on the planet.

If water was a liquid, then Jesus must have sunk into the waves. Same logic.
If storms are natural, the Jesus could not calm them.
If people die, then they smell and cannot rise from the grave.

 

[Job 33:6]

If water was a liquid, then Jesus must have sunk into the waves. Same logic.
If storms are natural, the Jesus could not calm them.
If people die, then they smell and cannot rise from the grave.

The planet is not Jesus. If there is a flood, there also are flood deposits. And there are local preserved flood deposits, just nothing on a global scale.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I see the descendants of Adam as every living human on earth, so wherever they may be. Genesis says "every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth". It seems crazy to me that Jesus would have thought otherwise.

Adam and Eve lived around 6,000 years ago in what we now call ancient Mesopotamia. They are the matriarch and patriarch of a very select group of people given the land of what is now called the Arab Continental Plate. The descendants of Abraham and Sarah and the descendants of Abraham and Hagar. The people that descended from Isaiah and Ishmael.

The Patriarch and Matriarch of all of mankind goes back an LOT further then 6,000 years. God gives us BOTH Science and our Bible. He would not contradict Himself and there is no contradictions between true science and a true understanding of the Bible.

Genesis says "every living substance was destroyed

Yes that is correct, now what does "every living substance" mean? "Every" means all. The word substance is ONLY used three times in the Bible. Perhaps you need to back up to verse 23 where we read: " all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, died." There are only 23 verses in the Bible that talks about the breath of life. This is what God destroyed. So we need to study the meaning of "neshamah" or breath of life.

We can keep going as much as you want to go with this. Just let me know how far you want to go into looking at what God is showing us in the book of Genesis that we received from Moses. Hundreds of thousands of books could be written and you would just be starting to understand. Can you put eternity in a bottle? Can we contain God and what is infinite? We can only understand a small part of what is eternal and infinite. We are a vessel that can only contain or hold a small part of what is eternal and infinite.

Strong's Hebrew: 3351. יְקוּם (yequm) — 3 Occurrences

Genesis 7:4
HEB: אֶֽת־ כָּל־ הַיְקוּם֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר עָשִׂ֔יתִי
NAS: every living thing that I have made.
KJV: and every living substance that I have made
INT: will blot every living i have made

Genesis 7:23
HEB: אֶֽת־ כָּל־ הַיְק֣וּם ׀ אֲשֶׁ֣ר ׀ עַל־
NAS: out every living thing that was upon the face
KJV: And every living substance was destroyed
INT: blotted every living that was upon

Deuteronomy 11:6
HEB: וְאֵ֤ת כָּל־ הַיְקוּם֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר בְּרַגְלֵיהֶ֔ם
NAS: and every living thing that followed
KJV: and their tents, and all the substance that [was] in their possession,
INT: their tents and every living and what followed

 

[joshua 1 9]

I think after, but the Spinx I think, due to the effects attributed to erosion indicates it was there before the flood.

Perhaps the Spinx is older but a lot of the erosion is recent from modern day pollution. It could be more catastrophic than it is gradual.

 

[RageOfAngels]

Perhaps you need to back up to verse 23 where we read: " all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, died." There are only 23 verses in the Bible that talks about the breath of life. This is what God destroyed. So we need to study the meaning of "neshamah" or breath of life.

We can keep going as much as you want to go with this. Just let me know how far you want to go

Yes, that is what I believe. The flood only affected those "whose nostrils breathed...", so fish and insects wouldn't be included.

As for how far do I want to go... well not very far at all, to be honest. Way back when (in the late 90's when I had lots of free time) I used to debate this issue forever and after debating with many folks from all sides only one person (that I recall) changed his mind on anything. He used to believe God used evolution, but ended up believing in a recent creation. That was it, that was all, after all the constant posts. Entrenchment seemed to rule on both sides, and it used to get a bit heated from time to time, which was rather sad.

I'm more a recent creationist now than I've ever been, but I don't mind if others believe God used evolution, even though it makes little sense to me. Pretty much every opinion on either side can be backed up by some kind of fact that proves the other wrong!

 

[mark kennedy]

Perhaps the Spinx is older but a lot of the erosion is recent from modern day pollution. It could be more catastrophic than it is gradual.

I actually have no idea, but that's what I've always thought.

 

[joshua 1 9]

As for how far do I want to go... well not very far at all, to be honest.

I think my point was that God is infinite and we are finite. They ask how much of infinity can we fit in a jar. Or how much of all the air in the world can we fit in a jar?

John 21 25 "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."