Pyramids and the flood

[Doug Brents]

• 2: Represents balance, harmony, cooperation, and relationships. It is often seen as a number of duality and partnership.
• 4: Symbolizes stability, structure, and practicality. It is associated with foundations, organization, and discipline.
• 5: Indicates change, adventure, freedom, and flexibility. It often brings energy, dynamism, and a sense of curiosity.
• 4: Again, this number brings emphasis on stability and structure.

We are not studying or discussing numerology here.

More and more I see how exact and precise the Bible is. It is starting to look like Jesus was born 4,000 years after Adam was created.

Pretty close. Jesus was born in about 3901 after Creation.

Then they both died 33 years when Adam sinned and Jesus died at Calvery.

Where do you get that Adam was 33 years old when the Fall occurred? That is NOWHERE in Scripture!

So we know when the Church age ends in 2029.

Where do you get that the "Church age" ends in 2029? Again, that is NOWHERE in Scripture!

The problem is we are told no one knows when. But are we really told that?


Matthew 24

2“Do you see all these things?” He replied. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

3While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”

Notice they say WHEN will this happen AND "sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?” Are they really asking when is the end of the age. OR are they asking WHEN will the temple be tore down. IF the temple was tore down in 70 AD then we should know. Only Jesus was born in 4 BC so that means the temple was tore down 74 years after His birth. Clearly a number no one other than God knows.

Say what?

Yes, the Temple was torn down in AD70, but what does that have to do with a number God only knows?

We are told: John 2:1 "On the third day a wedding took place" So does the church age end and the kingdom age begin exactly 2000 years from the beginning of the church?

No, the "Church age" and the Kingdom of God are the same thing. It began on Pentecost (at the latest, possibly at Jesus' resurrection) and will end when the Lord comes again at the end of the world, when the entire universe will be completely destroyed by fire (2 Pet 3:10), and will completely cease to exist (Rev 20:11, 21:1).

 

[Diamond72]

We are not studying or discussing numerology here.

Then I guess we are not having the same conversation. You said about and I said exactly. If you do not agree that is fine.

Yes, the Temple was torn down in AD70, but what does that have to do with a number God only knows?

Jesus said the temple would be tore down. The disciples asked when and Jesus said no one knows, only the father. But were know now today because this is a past event that already took place.

Where do you get that Adam was 33 years old when the Fall occurred?

That is how old Jesus was when He went to calvary.

We can estimate the age of Jesus when He was crucified based on historical and biblical records. Here's a summary of the evidence:

Biblical Clues:​

1. Beginning of His Ministry: According to Luke 3:23, Jesus was "about thirty years old" when He began His public ministry.
2. Duration of Ministry: The Gospels suggest that Jesus' ministry lasted approximately three years, considering the number of Passovers mentioned (at least three, possibly four).

Historical Context:​

• Birth of Jesus: Scholars generally agree that Jesus was born between 6 and 4 BC, based on historical references such as the reign of Herod the Great.
• Crucifixion Date: The crucifixion of Jesus is commonly dated to around AD 30-33, with AD 30 and AD 33 being the most widely considered years.

Conclusion:​

Combining these clues, if Jesus started His ministry around the age of 30 and ministered for approximately three years, He would have been about 33 years old at the time of His crucifixion.
This estimate aligns with traditional Christian teaching and the information provided in the New Testament.

 

[Doug Brents]

Then I guess we are not having the same conversation. You said about and I said exactly. If you do not agree that is fine.

You started listing what numbers "represent". They do not represent anything, they are simply the counted years since the instant of Creation. 2454 represents 2454 years since Creation, not "balance", "change", "stability", or whatever else you say those numbers "represent".

Jesus said the temple would be tore down. The disciples asked when and Jesus said no one knows, only the father. But were know now today because this is a past event that already took place.

At the time Jesus said that, no one did know when the Temple would be torn down, except for God the Father. But we know now, because (as you said) it is in our past. Just the same way, no one knows when the end of the World will come except the Father, but we will know it happened after it happens. What is your point?

That is how old Jesus was when He went to calvary.

We can estimate the age of Jesus when He was crucified based on historical and biblical records. Here's a summary of the evidence:

Biblical Clues:​

1. Beginning of His Ministry: According to Luke 3:23, Jesus was "about thirty years old" when He began His public ministry.
2. Duration of Ministry: The Gospels suggest that Jesus' ministry lasted approximately three years, considering the number of Passovers mentioned (at least three, possibly four).

Historical Context:​

• Birth of Jesus: Scholars generally agree that Jesus was born between 6 and 4 BC, based on historical references such as the reign of Herod the Great.
• Crucifixion Date: The crucifixion of Jesus is commonly dated to around AD 30-33, with AD 30 and AD 33 being the most widely considered years.

Conclusion:​

Combining these clues, if Jesus started His ministry around the age of 30 and ministered for approximately three years, He would have been about 33 years old at the time of His crucifixion.
This estimate aligns with traditional Christian teaching and the information provided in the New Testament.

I have no problem with your calculations here. What I have a problem with, is your assumption that the "Church age" will end 2000 years after Jesus' death. Where is that stated, or even alluded to, in Scripture? We don't know when the end of the "Church age " will be. The "Church age" is the same as the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of God began either at Jesus resurrection or on Pentecost. The Kingdom of God will end when Christ comes again, and we know that His return will be like a thief in the night (NO ONE WILL KNOW IT IS COMING WHEN IT COMES). There will be no foretelling it, not signs to look for before it comes, no warning, and no second chance. We must all be ready NOW, because He could return before you finish reading this sentence.

 

[Diamond72]

not represent anything

Everything represents something with God, if we understand or not.

At the time Jesus said that, no one did know when the Temple would be torn down, except for God the Father.

You are repeating what I said, but that is fine.

What I have a problem with, is your assumption that the "Church age" will end 2000 years after Jesus' death

Close, the church began 50 days after Calvery on the day of Pentacost when Peter was preaching in the Upper room and the Holy Spirit was given to the Church. You have to look at the scriptures that say the third day and the seventh day. For Example Hosea 6:2 After two days He will revive us; on the third day He will raise us up, that we may live in His presence. The question people have is if the kingdom age (1,000 year reign of Christ) is a sabbath where we rest from our works. Hebrew 4:9 "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God".

Revelation 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”

 

[Doug Brents]

Close, the church began 50 days after Calvery on the day of Pentacost when Peter was preaching in the Upper room and the Holy Spirit was given to the Church. You have to look at the scriptures that say the third day and the seventh day. For Example Hosea 6:2 After two days He will revive us; on the third day He will raise us up, that we may live in His presence. The question people have is if the kingdom age (1,000 year reign of Christ) is a sabbath where we rest from our works. Hebrew 4:9 "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God".

The thousand year reign of Christ will be in Heaven, not on Earth. The Earth (and all of the universe will have been completely destroyed by the time of the thousand year reign (2 Pet 3:10, Rev 20:11, 21:1)).

The passage in Hosea is not about the length of the "Church age". No one can possibly know when the "Church age" will end, because if they did, then it would not come "as a thief in the night". If we could anticipate it, then we wouldn't be surprised by it, and Jesus says that we will all be surprised when it comes.

The third day is precisely that, the third day (Sunday) after His crucifixion (on Thursday). We are revived and resurrected in Him when we are baptized into Him (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14), and it is in baptism that we are raised up so that we may live in His presence.

 

[Diamond72]

The third day is precisely that, the third day (Sunday)

That is what I said, the third day is a sabath. Revelation 10:6 (KJV) – “And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer. “

 

[Doug Brents]

That is what I said, the third day is a sabath. Revelation 10:6 (KJV) – “And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer. “

The third day, the day Jesus arose from the dead, was a Sunday (first day of the week), not the sabbath (seventh day)(Mark 16:9, John 20:1, Luke 24:1, Matt 28:1).

 

[Diamond72]

The third day, the day Jesus arose from the dead, was a Sunday (first day of the week), not the sabbath (seventh day)(Mark 16:9, John 20:1, Luke 24:1, Matt 28:1).

We are talking about the 1,000 year reign of Christ. Moses and Peter BOTH tell us that a day is 1,000 years.

The righteous and just people of the earth will be on the earth during the Millennium, including those who are alive at the time of the Second Coming and those who are resurrected.

I died twice and God raised me up from the dead. But actually, it was a defibular so you cannot really call that a resurrection.

 

[David Lamb]

We are talking about the 1,000 year reign of Christ. Moses and Peter BOTH tell us that a day is 1,000 years.

The righteous and just people of the earth will be on the earth during the Millennium, including those who are alive at the time of the Second Coming and those who are resurrected.

I died twice and God raised me up from the dead. But actually, it was a defibular so you cannot really call that a resurrection.

Peter doesn't say that a day is a thousand years. He says that with the Lord, a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years are as a day:

“But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day [is] as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” (2Pe 3:8 NKJV)

Similarly, Moses in Psalm 90:4 says:

“For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.” (Ps 90:4 NKJV)

So neither Peter nor Moses say that a day is a thousand years, but that to God, a thousand years are like a day. Peter also says that with the Lord, one day is as a thousand years.

 

[Doug Brents]

We are talking about the 1,000 year reign of Christ. Moses and Peter BOTH tell us that a day is 1,000 years.

Moses and Peter are both making the point that God is outside of time, and so He is not constrained by it. 1000 years is like a single day to Him, and a single day is like 1000 years. This does not have anything to do with the 1000 year reign (wedding celebration of Christ) in Heaven after the entire universe is destroyed and time is no more.

The righteous and just people of the earth will be on the earth during the Millennium, including those who are alive at the time of the Second Coming and those who are resurrected.

Sorry, but that all takes place in Heaven. There won't be an Earth anymore, because at Jesus' return the Earth and all of the universe will be destroyed by fire (Rev 20:11, 21:1, 2 Pet 3:10).

 

[Diamond72]

Sorry, but that all takes place in Heaven.

Show me anyone anywhere that agrees with you.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Regarding the flood I kind of like the answer...
We have facts, and then we have interpretations of the facts. Near the top of Everest there are millions of sea shells. That's a fact.
You can believe that it was from the flood of Noah's day, or you can believe it was a local flood thousands of years before, or millions of years before. They are just theories (or 'religious' views).

The pyramids are there, that is a fact.
You can believe they were built after the world wide flood of Noah's day, or you can believe they were build a few thousand years before that. But they are both just theories (or 'religious' views).

That’s a great explanation. So many people today think that interpretation of evidence results in absolute fact which has been demonstrated to be false countless times.

 

[Diamond72]

So many people today think that interpretation of evidence results in absolute fact which has been demonstrated to be false countless times.

The fact is that Noah was a real person with a real ark and real animals. What more do we need to know? It is also a fact that Noah's father could have know Adam. They were both alive at the same time.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Peter doesn't say that a day is a thousand years. He says that with the Lord, a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years are as a day:

“But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day [is] as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” (2Pe 3:8 NKJV)

Similarly, Moses in Psalm 90:4 says:

“For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.” (Ps 90:4 NKJV)

So neither Peter nor Moses say that a day is a thousand years, but that to God, a thousand years are like a day. Peter also says that with the Lord, one day is as a thousand years.

Even the 1000 year day explanation doesn’t work because that still only puts creation at 12,000 years ago. Just like gap theory doesn’t work either because you still have the sun, moon, stars, all plants and animals, and man being created 6,000 years ago. People keep trying to shoehorn 4.5 billion years into Genesis 1 and no matter how hard they try it just doesn’t work.

 

[Diamond72]

Even the 1000 year day explanation doesn’t work because that still only puts creation at 12,000 years ago. Just like gap theory doesn’t work either because you still have the sun, moon, stars, all plants and animals, and man being created 6,000 years ago. People keep trying to shoehorn 4.5 billion years into Genesis 1 and no matter how hard they try it just doesn’t work.

We all know that is when the glaciers melted and the age we live in now began. That is when the Grand Canyon was formed when the ice melted. It takes a lot of water pressure to do that sort of erosion. 90% of what was here before that died. The saber tooth tigers, wholly mammoths and so on. So that is when the age or era we live in now began.

It is amazing how people pick and choose what is literal and what is not. God gives us science, wisdom, knowledge and understanding so we can know the work He has done. He gives us physical evidence to examine.

 

[Doug Brents]

Show me anyone anywhere that agrees with you.

Read the passages cited (Rev 20:11, 21:1, 2 Pet 3:10). Those passages state that when Jesus comes again this entire universe will be destroyed by fire, and will not be in existence. Then the thousand year reign (which is really the wedding celebration of the Church to Jesus) will occur in the only place left in existence: Heaven. Does anyone else out there agree with this conclusion? I don't know, and I really don't care.

 

[Diamond72]

Those passages state that when Jesus comes again this entire universe will be destroyed by fire, and will not be in existence.

Swing and a miss. Nice try though. By Heaven they are talking about our atmosphere. If you remember before Noah 4300 years ago, people lived to be 1,000. After Noah they lived to be 120 years. People think this has to do with the atmosphere and you have to fix the atmosphere (with fire) to fix the problems so people will live longer. A nuclear bomb has profound and far-reaching effects on the atmosphere. Even Musk talks about using a nuclear explosion to create an atmosphere on Mars that will sustain life. NASA does not agree with him but he still believes this.

Isa 65 20 ""Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed."

Even today they are extending the lives of people over past generations. We are already up to 80 years and the Bible talks about a time when the average will be more than 100.

 

[David Lamb]

Even the 1000 year day explanation doesn’t work because that still only puts creation at 12,000 years ago. Just like gap theory doesn’t work either because you still have the sun, moon, stars, all plants and animals, and man being created 6,000 years ago. People keep trying to shoehorn 4.5 billion years into Genesis 1 and no matter how hard they try it just doesn’t work.

I wasn't arguing that point, just answering a post where it had been stated that the bible teaches that a day is a thousand years.

 

[Diamond72]

Peter doesn't say that a day is a thousand years. He says that with the Lord, a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years are as a day:

You can not play double jeopardy like that. IF a DAY is a literal 24 hours. THEN a thousand years is a LITERAL 1,000 years. You can not say 1,000 years is not literal but something else. If you want to start a discussion of TIME with the Lord then yesterday today and tomorrow are all one moment in time. Past, present and future are all the same with God because God is all in all and all in one. The modern term they like to use now is singularity. The scientific term is block time.

We live in a day and age of key words and Genesis is all about key words with infinite meaning. All the books in the world could be written on just about any of the key words in Genesis chapter one.

John 21 25 There are many more things that Jesus did. If all of them were written down, I suppose that not even the world itself would have space for the books that would be written.

 

[David Lamb]

You can not play double jeopardy like that. IF a DAY is a literal 24 hours. THEN a thousand years is a LITERAL 1,000 years. You can not say 1,000 years is not literal but something else. If you want to start a discussion of TIME with the Lord then yesterday today and tomorrow are all one moment in time. Past, present and future are all the same with God because God is all in all and all in one. The modern term they like to use now is singularity. The scientific term is block time.

We live in a day and age of key words and Genesis is all about key words with infinite meaning. All the books in the world could be written on just about any of the key words in Genesis chapter one.

John 21 25 There are many more things that Jesus did. If all of them were written down, I suppose that not even the world itself would have space for the books that would be written.

I was not even discussing the meaning of "a day" or "a thousand years." I was replying to your post in which you wrote: "Moses and Peter BOTH tell us that a day is 1,000 years." I said that neither Moses nor Peter tell us that a day is a thousand years, but that with the Lord, a day is as or like a thousand years.