Protestants and Catholics

[Dave G.]

Someone above said there is only one Catholicism. Well, I personally saw a lot of variety in styles of worship, and in belief systems, within the RCC. Again, though, I do think Catholics can be saved and be very sincere about putting their trust in the Messiah. The world is a confusing place and we have so often not been taught what the Scriptures really say, and do not say. I believe the Father of Mercies understands that. As much as I am all for adherence to Scripture - which is totally - a loving heart with confusion is better than a lukewarm heart and perfect doctrine.

I countered that idea of one Catholicism, maybe you misread my post even, where I said there is not one Catholicism but various sects within it.

I was raised Catholic and still was one when I came to the Lord upstairs in my bedroom in 1979 and His response to that had really big impact on my life. I'm a changed man since that day. Yes there are saved Catholics but not really through their doctrine directly, though they do stress that you believe in the trinity, the death burial and resurrection. In reality if to be saved, The change has to be in the heart. To me this is a mechanical sort of teaching they use or used to at least but individuals can certainly have the Love of the Lord in their hearts and be changed by the Holy Spirit. My problem came after that, the Lord clearly spoke to me that I was in the wrong place. Discernment started to enter the scene and I could see through the inaccuracies much better, plus the fellowship was not spirit filled but more just social. It's a religion of it's own really, they actually do many things against scripture as well intended as it might be, locked in ritualistic ceremony. But then so do some protestants. This is why I am non denominational and Jesus Christ/Word of God based in my spirituality. Jesus Christ has a true advocate in me, He won me over LOL. I can't say enough about him because the things I've seen, been allowed to see, and the changes in my heart are irrefutable. Some practicing Catholics feel the same way.

 

[seashale76]

Well, up to this point I didn't really look into the matter much and I just considered myself to be on both sides equally. I didn't regard myself as protestant or catholic; just a supporter of both. But that's because I really never figured out which one to follow, because I don't really see the difference; both accept Jesus as the Messiah, so how is it so different than one another?

Which one came first, etc.?

Thanks

Orthodoxy.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Orthodoxy.

Y'all always get left out of the party.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Well, up to this point I didn't really look into the matter much and I just considered myself to be on both sides equally. I didn't regard myself as protestant or catholic; just a supporter of both. But that's because I really never figured out which one to follow, because I don't really see the difference; both accept Jesus as the Messiah, so how is it so different than one another?

Which one came first, etc.?

Which came first is the ancient Orthodox/Catholic Church, which was begun on the first Pentecost.

The Protestants didn't come around until the 15th Century.

 

[Vicomte13]

I know you didn't ask me but the scriptures are living Oracles of God. And until you interact with them in faith there is no way someone can describe how it plays in your life because it's different for every believer.

I am aware of what you speak, and have experienced that in interacting with the Scriptures, and with God outside of the Scriptures as well. I have discerned the common element to be God, and me, interacting with him.

So, I interact with God as I do something, be it driving down the road talking to him, or looking out at the sea talking to him, or reading a book - including the Scriptures - alongside of him.

I agree that the Scriptures are very important divine history, and I've experienced God using parts of them, pointing things out to me through them. I have also experienced God providing me with a homily from the priest at Mass on just exactly the topic troubling me.

I would not ascribe Scripture as the source of any of this, but God as the source of all it. This is not to denigrate Scripture in any way, but I don't see why Scripture should be put atop of everything either. I did not come to God through Scripture, but to Scripture through God.

I think maybe what we privilege - Scripture or Church or charismatic revelation - is very much associated with our own personal experience, and we have difficulty relating to others encountering God in a different manner, or in a manner that does not privilege our preferred vehicle for doing so.

 

[LoricaLady]

So's the Church. And the Church has miracles also.
Individuals, likewise, have miracles.

Seems like the Scripture works for you, so that's good. Stick with it.
Realize, though, that the Church works for some, and charismatic direct contact with God works for others. There are many paths to the top of the mountain. They all flow down from God.

Individuals and Churches do indeed have miracles. The authentic ones are the result of believing in what the Bible says. The Bible tell us that we can do miracles. In fact we are more or less commanded to do so. Miracles are all over the Bible, in the Old Testament and New Testament.

Of course direct contact with the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are essential. However, guess what? It is quite possible to have such contact while believing in the very Bible that causes us to seek such contact.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Catholics believe in Celibacy.

ONLY for priests and Bishops, along with deacons that are going to become priests.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Also, it was His enemies, not His friends and followers, who offered Him up to the Cross.

Did Jesus die only for you? Did He not die for ALL?

But you are not understanding the Eucharistic prayer. Study the Anaphora in the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, and you will see that the whole prayer is ONE prayer, from beginning to the end, that asks the Holy Spirit to come down on the Gifts, and MAKE them the Body and Blood of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ.

The classic Canon of the Roman Rite shows the same thing.

 

[Devin P]

Well, up to this point I didn't really look into the matter much and I just considered myself to be on both sides equally. I didn't regard myself as protestant or catholic; just a supporter of both. But that's because I really never figured out which one to follow, because I don't really see the difference; both accept Jesus as the Messiah, so how is it so different than one another?

Which one came first, etc.?

Thanks

Which one came first, definitely doesn't matter. Both miss the mark, but Catholicism much more.

Catholics believe they need a priest, which, is against not only the Torah, but also Jesus Himself.

Sounds crazy right? Well, listen. Levites, were the only ones that could biblically be priests. Even more specifically, only the sons of Aaron could be priests.

Deuteronomy 21:5 - And the priests the sons of Levi shall come near; for them the LORD thy God hath chosen to minister unto him, and to bless in the name of the LORD; and by their word shall every controversy and every stroke be tried:

There's several other verses that talk about this all throughout the Torah. Actually, it's what Korah's rebellion was about. They thought that since they had a relationship with God as well, that they could do what the Levites did, and offer sacrifices to God as well. Well, God quickly proved them wrong, and killed each and every one of them, and even caused the ground to swallow up all of their families.

The only person, to ever NOT have been a priest, after the order of Melchizedek, was Jesus. He is now, our Priest, except now instead of having to offer sacrifices of blood for us constantly, His death was the only sacrifice that was ever needed. It's why now, He's sitting on the right hand of God. It's also why Jesus said that He would never drink wine until after He came back. Why? Because, according to the Torah, priests cannot drink wine while they're in the tabernacle before God, or else they are unclean and will be smitten down as Korah was, and as Nadab and Abihu were. They were smitten down for different reasons, but you get what I mean.

My point is, to have an earthly priest, is to deny the Priesthood Jesus offers us. Jesus is our priest, and He, and He alone has made atonement for us in His death. He now, mediates for us in Heaven, making the catholic priests completely pointless. Just as Korah's rebellion couldn't make atonement, and mediate for themselves for the people or their families because the sons of Aaron were the only priests God would allow. Nor can the catholic priests make atonement for our sins, and mediate for us, considering Jesus Himself has done, and is doing that for us now.

 

[LoricaLady]

Anyone: I have enjoyed exchanging posts with you, but I need to get off this string due to time constraints. Therefore if I seem to be ignoring any further posts to me, please forgive me.
Blessings and bye. May we all meet in Heaven some day.

 

[All4Christ]

AMBASSADOR HAT



Please remember that this is a no debate forum. Direct your responses to the member who started the thread and refrain from debating one another's theological beliefs and viewpoints.

Do not use this forum to debate with other Christians as that is not the purpose of the Christian Advice forum. If members would like to discuss/debate specific Christian theological doctrines, they should do so in one of the Theology forums.

Also, several posts are getting close to flaming. Please avoid flaming and goading.

 

[SolomonVII]

Well, up to this point I didn't really look into the matter much and I just considered myself to be on both sides equally. I didn't regard myself as protestant or catholic; just a supporter of both. But that's because I really never figured out which one to follow, because I don't really see the difference; both accept Jesus as the Messiah, so how is it so different than one another?

Which one came first, etc.?

Thanks

Protestants in general are all about trying to get back to following Christ without all the bells and whistles that they see as having been added on to the faith through 2000 years or so of Christian development. For them Christ came first, and they want to purge their faith of the influence of those who came second, and third, and fourth, and so on and so on.
They have had varying degrees of success in doing this I suppose, and some have added a few bells and whistles of their own over the years.
For their part, Catholics justify the bells and whistles as legitimate developments of an apostolic faith where apostolic in this instance includes traditions verified as legitimate by proper channels, who have had the authority of the original apostles to "bind and loose" bestowed upon them by the laying on of hands from Christ to the apostles to the second, to the third and fourth and so on and so on.
At this point in time, I agree that the differences between the two are very insignificant in comparison to the problems that the faithful face in an increasingly faithless world, that swings wildly from believing in the nihilism of nothing in a world without meaning, to grasping onto authoritiarian ideologies to fill the gaps in the lives of the faithless.

 

[Purity Clarity Parkes]

My dear friend, it does not matter whether you are in one or the other, just love the Lord and listen to His voice.

 

[Peach Springtime]

What she said!

 

[Purity Clarity Parkes]

Thank you, Peach.

 

[Peach Springtime]

Yer welcome lass!

 

[Vicomte13]

revelations, miracles, signs and wonders from the Holy Spirit dwindled.

Maybe. But they never stopped.

 

[Dave G.]

Maybe. But they never stopped.

Yep, I know I've seen signs and wonders myself and believe I've witnessed a miracle or two in my 67-1/2 years of life. So they are still around today, but not like in the prophetic age and not to form scripture either. Now here is the thing, in those days they were explained to why they were seeing or witnessing these things and even told to write about it in some cases. Unfortunately in my case, while we believe in such things or that they can take place, my church group/organization is largely non charismatic. They are also pastor heavy and have a hard time with people who are not pastors experiencing such thing. Not totally dismissed but wary, pass it off as emotionalism usually. So I actually don't know what to do with these things when they happen to me but to pray for clarity.

 

[Halbhh]

Well, up to this point I didn't really look into the matter much and I just considered myself to be on both sides equally. I didn't regard myself as protestant or catholic; just a supporter of both. But that's because I really never figured out which one to follow, because I don't really see the difference; both accept Jesus as the Messiah, so how is it so different than one another?

Which one came first, etc.?

Thanks

Who we all individually must follow is Christ Jesus our Savior, and none other. But a church can be an aid at times even in this key task, and a place where together we remember Him in communion. Also, a church is fellowship, where we practice His command to us that we "love one another", so a church should be a good thing in many ways, and we must be doing love one another, and helping those who need help.

A church is happening at any moment where 2 or more are gathered in His name.

 

[Ronald]

Lets just all call ourselves Christians for Pete's sake. It would be wonderful if we could remove the obstacles that separate us.
There are essentials that we all share, faith in Jesus, that He died for our sins and rose on the third day, according to the scriptures. We all believe in His Word, at least 66 books. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ.
Jesus refers to us as Gods children NOT PROTESTANTS OR CATHOLICS. The Holy Spirit doesn't give a message filtered through our misunderstandings and misinterpretations, its the other way around. We take His message and twist it and bend to conform to our ways.
Fear not, He is sovereign and every soul has been saved right on schedule. His perfect plan factors in our flaws and when we get there, He will clarify it all. In the mean time, lets not be divided.