Proof that the Book of Mormon is a fraud!!!

[A New Dawn]

Hi there!



You misrepresent the majority of translations of the Bible. The key to understanding translations is to understand the philosophy of the translation committees... such as to accept formal equivalency or dynamic equivalency, to be implicit or explicit, choices as to whether to fill out a story (1 Cor 10:10)... and the dreaded theological bias (bom, NWT... etc)

The majority of people judge translations according to their interpretation and neglect to take the time to understand the philosophy of the translations. If all the translation committees for the Bible had the same philosophies, then the translations would be identical...

even down to the page numbering as in the bom...

I hope this helps in your understanding of Bible translations and the reasoning for much of the difference in "translations" and not differences in "interpretations"... for the translation committees meet their goals before they publish.

~serapha~

Not that you can read this, but what I am understanding you to say is that they go into the process with an agenda in mind.

Maybe someone else can answer this question.

 

[Fit4Christ]

Do you understand Jesus didn't like the idea of a factioned religion?

Source?

You can live your life anyway you want, you don't have to be, or have to ever be Christian to be open to Christ...

What do you mean by "be open to Christ"? Do you mean open to his teachings? Open to calling him Lord and Saviour? Also, what is your definition of "Christian"? Please clarify...

 

[Mea Culpa]

By far, the largest number of changes that were made were grammatical.

In case it is not common knowledge, the editor of the first printing punctuated the whole book. I am sure that there were a lot of mistakes due to the fact that the printer was not a member of the team that translated it and did not have God's ear when it came to punctuating it. And putting a comma in in place of a period, for example, can drastically change the meaning of a passage.

So, if you all could point out some changes that were not grammatical, that would be more helpful to the discussion.

You know what? We could argue about these things forever. The Book of Mormon has been changed, not just a word here or there, but phrases, passages, names and places. Not editing, not translating from one greek source into English, but complete changes.

That being said, I am not wanting to go into that because that arguement can go on forever.

I will state this though,

Revelation 22

A Warning

18 For[1] I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add[2] to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away[3] his part from the Book[4] of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


I believe in what the Bible says. The Bible is complete, from Gen to Revelations, and there is NO need to add to the Bible.

Anyone who adds or takes away from God's word, I will have NO PART in. So therefore Momonism is a falicy and a cult, and one in which I will have nothing to do with.

I stand by one, and one truth only. JESUS IS THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. The Book of John calls Him the Word. He had fulfilled the Word in the Bible, and that which has yet to be fulfilled will be done so before He comes again, or when He comes again.

But all other books, no matter if it is the Koran, the Mormon book, the JW bible (which changes the truth) or any other book, does not testify to the truth of Christ. It is HIS WORD, the Bible from Gen to Rev, from start to finish, that is true.

It is to that that I live and testify. I will not be a part of any farce. Only truth.

 

[Doc T]

You know what? We could argue about these things forever. The Book of Mormon has been changed, not just a word here or there, but phrases, passages, names and places. Not editing, not translating from one greek source into English, but complete changes.

Not trying to have an argument here, but could you give me the examples of "phrases, passages, names and places" that have been changed in the BofM so we may discuss them. I assume that you are open to discuss them.

Thanks



Doc

~

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Not trying to have an argument here, but could you give me the examples of "phrases, passages, names and places" that have been changed in the BofM so we may discuss them. I assume that you are open to discuss them.

Thanks



Doc

~

Here are a few: http://www.irr.org/mit/changingscrips.html

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[Doc T]

Here are a few: http://www.irr.org/mit/changingscrips.html

Are there any more that you are aware of Grace?

Doc

~

 

[Mea Culpa]

Here are a few: http://www.irr.org/mit/changingscrips.html

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What she said!

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Are there any more that you are aware of Grace?

Doc

~

No, not that I am aware of. Why? Do you only acknowlege changing in text that alter the meaning of the passage if there are a certian number of changes?

 

[Apex]

I will state this though,

Revelation 22

A Warning

18 For[1] I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add[2] to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away[3] his part from the Book[4] of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

So this verse is reffering to the Bible??? The Bible did not exist when this was written. If the Bible did not exist when this was written then how could it refer to a book that did not exist? I personally belive that it means you should not add or take away from Gods teachings, not necisaraly the Bible. And if you belive it means the Bible then what about the group of people who put the Bible together? They certinly added and subtracted from it. For some books were choosen to put into the Bible and others were not. Also God may add to his teachings whenever and whatever he wants.

 

[fatboys]

Here are a few: http://www.irr.org/mit/changingscrips.html

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FB: Haven't we already been here and done that? Does it say who made the changes of Eternal Father to the Son of Eternal Father?

And for the most correct book, I think we have already beat that one to death.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

FB: Haven't we already been here and done that? Does it say who made the changes of Eternal Father to the Son of Eternal Father?

And for the most correct book, I think we have already beat that one to death.

The fact is that the changes were made and those changes totally alter the meaning of the passage. So much for "the most correct book on the earth". I guess the mormon god could not get his own meaning right the first time.

 

[Serapha]

Revelation 22

A Warning

18 For[1] I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add[2] to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away[3] his part from the Book[4] of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

So this verse is reffering to the Bible??? The Bible did not exist when this was written. If the Bible did not exist when this was written then how could it refer to a book that did not exist? I personally belive that it means you should not add or take away from Gods teachings, not necisaraly the Bible. And if you belive it means the Bible then what about the group of people who put the Bible together? They certinly added and subtracted from it. For some books were choosen to put into the Bible and others were not. Also God may add to his teachings whenever and whatever he wants.

Hi there!



I have to disagree with your comment that "the Bible did not exist" when this was written. The Old Testament was known as "the Scriptures", and the New Testament writings were known as "The Christian Scriptures" well before the time that John recorded the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

The word "biblion" from Revelation 22 means...

(http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/9/1095305895-4964.html)

1) a small book, a scroll, a written document


Have the teachings of the CoJCoLDS's added or taken away from the teachings of the Revelation of Jesus Christ?


~serpaha~

 

[CrownCaster]

So this verse is reffering to the Bible??? The Bible did not exist when this was written. If the Bible did not exist when this was written then how could it refer to a book that did not exist? I personally belive that it means you should not add or take away from Gods teachings, not necisaraly the Bible. And if you belive it means the Bible then what about the group of people who put the Bible together? They certinly added and subtracted from it. For some books were choosen to put into the Bible and others were not. Also God may add to his teachings whenever and whatever he wants.

This actually is speaking of the Book of Revelation. As we have seen throughout the years, people who are confused by its teachings want to change or distort its meanings. Pretty cool that God foresaw that and warned people about doing so. The Book of Revelation is such a fascinating wonderful book.

 

[gort]

This actually is speaking of the Book of Revelation. As we have seen throughout the years, people who are confused by its teachings want to change or distort its meanings. Pretty cool that God foresaw that and warned people about doing so. The Book of Revelation is such a fascinating wonderful book.

I really like the Book of Revelation also. Specially the end part. But sometimes I have to consider very heavily that God designed the Bible just the way it is now, and taken in context of all that is written by inspiration, He means the the entire Bible.

False prohets will change the meaning and prophecies and their end is the Lake of Fire.

This should cause some to fear and tremble.

fwiw

<><

 

[CaliforniaKid]

There's a similar warning in Deuteronomy, but other books have been added to the Bible since then. Not to take the Mormons' side on this, but this verse in Revelation is not evidence of a closed canon. What it is evidence of is that God doesn't take lightly to his words being changed. It is not new revelation that is excluded, but rather alterations to old revelation.

While I would agree that the warning in Revelation applies specifically to that book (also Deuteronomy), I think we can assume a similar warning on behalf of the rest of scripture, including (if you believe in the authority of LDS scripture) the Book of Mormon et al. Besides, even if the warning just applies to the book of Revelation, there's still a problem. The JST makes several alterations to that book.

-CK

 

[fatboys]

The fact is that the changes were made and those changes totally alter the meaning of the passage. So much for "the most correct book on the earth". I guess the mormon god could not get his own meaning right the first time.

FB: The Prophets Nephi, Mormon and Moroni along with the Prophet Joseph Smith said that if there were mistakes in this book that it was because of men and not of God. As has been explained at least as many times as what transgression is, is that the most correct does not meant perfect. So many times it has been explained Happy, don't you get it? Is there something that you just don't want to understand? Honestly I just do not understand why it is so hard for you to grasp this concept.

Anyway I am going to be gone to see my son graduate from Officer training in Virginia. Going to fly out, I hope my arms don't get tired.

 

[CrownCaster]

I really like the Book of Revelation also. Specially the end part. But sometimes I have to consider very heavily that God designed the Bible just the way it is now, and taken in context of all that is written by inspiration, He means the the entire Bible.

False prohets will change the meaning and prophecies and their end is the Lake of Fire.

This should cause some to fear and tremble.

fwiw

<><

Absolutely, the idea of someone going in and tampering with Gods word to mislead people is a scary thing indeed. Though this specific warning is meant for the Book of Revelation, it is good boundary for the rest also.

 

[CrownCaster]

FB: The Prophets Nephi, Mormon and Moroni along with the Prophet Joseph Smith said that if there were mistakes in this book that it was because of men and not of God. As has been explained at least as many times as what transgression is, is that the most correct does not meant perfect. So many times it has been explained Happy, don't you get it? Is there something that you just don't want to understand? Honestly I just do not understand why it is so hard for you to grasp this concept.

We can debate this when you return.

Anyway I am going to be gone to see my son graduate from Officer training in Virginia. Going to fly out,

That is great. Congrat him for me. (son give dad a strange look while thinking "who the heck is CrownCaster and why do I care)

I hope my arms don't get tired.

LOL!

 

[happyinhisgrace]

FB: The Prophets Nephi, Mormon and Moroni along with the Prophet Joseph Smith said that if there were mistakes in this book that it was because of men and not of God.

How very convient.

 

[CrownCaster]

FB: The Prophets Nephi, Mormon and Moroni along with the Prophet Joseph Smith said that if there were mistakes in this book that it was because of men and not of God.

Hi,

I am not sure how this could be so. In the description of the translation process for the BOM, it was said that J.S. would put his head into the hat and out would come a parchment with the symbols and the translation written on them. They would disappear when and only when the piece was written down PERFECTLY. So, they could not even go on to the next word or sentence until it was done perfectly. Now, this has always confused me as there was so many grammatical errors in the original. Does this mean that God is unable to punctuate and spell correctly? If it is true that God would not allow the translation to continue until it was done perfectly, then that is what is being said here. Also, this would make the idea of man made mistakes obsolete. Thanks.

Apex- still waiting for some comment on the post I made. Thanks.