Pro-Life means sex creates souls?

[Daniel Martinovich]

Have you ever tried the OT name, Michael?

Well first off I have no idea what you are referring too with the name Michael. Referring to Michael the angel a created being the way Jehovah's Witnesses do? Or to Michael as one of the many names of Jehovah the Word?
I'll just stick to Jesus because when God heals He and I want the person to know whom the healing came through. Plus I prefer Jehovah the Word because the name Jehovah is in the OT around 5000 times and refers to all three of the trinity.
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.

 

[Serving Zion]

It is precisely because it IS real that it is dangerous and warned against.

Your conclusion is intellectually dishonest.

It is clear to see in the example you have given, that the teaching is the doctrine of the Witch of Endor, not of Adonai (God of Israel), an that Saul has subjected his belief to the spirit operating through her.

Thus, I rather say that it is because it is a teaching of demons that it is dangerous and warned against.

Unless you produce other scriptural support to represent what you say is Jewish teaching, I can only see that you have believed what the witch was teaching.

But all that aside, the Bible affirms that this really was the prophet Samuel who came *up* from Sheol. If even nearly spotless prophets went to Sheol then clearly everyone did.

I do not see evidence of that in what you have presented, while considering that king Saul had subjected his mind to a demonic spirit.

Classic Jewish cosmology. Keep in mind that all but one of the authors of the Bible were Jewish and all the early apostles and followers were Jews.

It has never slipped my mind ("First of all, they were entrusted with the oracles of God.").

"not all those who are descended from Israel are Israel, nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s seed; rather, “Your seed shall be called through Isaac.” That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God; rather, the children of the promise are counted as seed.

"For one is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision something visible in the flesh. Rather, the Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart—in Spirit not in letter. His praise is not from men, but from God."

 

[Fascinated With God]

Well first off I have no idea what you are referring too with the name Michael. Referring to Michael the angel a created being the way Jehovah's Witnesses do? Or to Michael as one of the many names of Jehovah the Word?

Dude, I'm talking standard orthodox Christology and the Book of Daniel. Michael is widely considered an OT name for Christ.
Chill out. You clearly never attended seminary so don't jump all over me about commonly understood topics in Christianity like I'm some kind of New Age flake.
https://www.amazon.com/Michael-Christ-Tradition-Christology.../dp/1610971531

21 But I will tell thee that which is inscribed in the writing of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me against these, but Michael your prince.

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince who standeth for the children of thy people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

 

[Fascinated With God]

Plus I prefer Jehovah the Word because the name Jehovah is in the OT around 5000 times and refers to all three of the trinity.

Wow, I had no idea. I've never gotten even 1000 hits on Hebrew words before. "6,519 times in 5,521 verses".

 

[Fascinated With God]

It is clear to see in the example you have given, that the teaching is the doctrine of the Witch of Endor

Doctrine of the Witch of Endor? There is no such thing.

If you don't want to understand Judaism that is fine with me. I don't have a problem with that. I'm not here to teach anything about Judaism to people who aren't honestly interested. This is just a distracting tangent.

Thus, I rather say that it is because it is a teaching of demons that it is dangerous and warned against.

Why are you repeating my words back to me? *sigh*...

You are in the minority. The majority of Christendom believes as I a have stated about this incident. Only very heterodoxical outlying denominations adhere to your view.

 

[Fascinated With God]

It is all about Gods Word. Don't read into it what you think you know or understand. Let it read into you with its own authoritativeness that is separate and apart from men's viewpoints. God will honor the person who does that and meet them where they are at. He will reject those who reject the Word that speaks in its own authority that all people are subject to.

That's my argument, but you can pick and choose by deciding what to dismiss as metaphorical and what to take literally. That is every bit as much picking and choosing what to believe as overtly dismissing certain verses.

And I find many Christians very intellectual and head centered about spirituality rather than heart-centered. That's why there are 3000+ denominations of Christianity. No other religion has even 1/100th that many factions, save India, but in a completely different way. 3000+ means a lot of arguments over splitting hairs over terminology and exegesis, just like the academics they hate so much. Two sides of the same coin, people hate seeing their own worst flaw manifested differently in others.

Over and over the Bible says we are judged by what's in our heart. The main punishment for false doctrine goes to teachers (James 3:1). And please include yourself in this! *jab*

 

[Fascinated With God]

It's kind of like this. Right now God is personally evangelizing some hapless Muslim in a Muslim land. Jesus, the man in white is appearing to them. They did not want Jesus to appear to them. They were not looking for that. In many cases their first reaction is anger because it is Jesus and not Mohammedan yet they melt at his words he speaks to them.
Why has this not been happening for the last 1400 years? It did once an a while but for the last two decades it seems everyday Jesus gives a Muslim a Saul of Taurus experience. To both the radical Islamist and the good Muslim. The answer to that question? Not only are millions of believers praying for them but in the last few decades Muslims have gained access to two different things they really did not have access to before. Real Christians and Bibles. That story wherever repeated always has this added to it. They know a Christian or a village where some Christian are and they get a Bible from them.

I don't see much change honestly, but you're dealing with a demonic religion. Mohammed was a very capable person who was duped by a demon because he was illiterate and the only help he could get was, ironically, from his elder Christian cousin who declared the entity to not be a djunn, but to be the Archangel Gabriel as it claimed.

Mohammed only saw the entity twice. The Quran was dictated to Mohammed by this entity. He would go into a trance state, sweating profusely, mouthing words silently to himself, and then repeat the statements to scribes when he came out of the trance. The Quran is full of doublespeak subliminal messages of an insidious nature.

 

[SgtBen]

I have read through this. I believe when the sperm gets into the woman's egg cell life begins.

Pro-life means try not to abort, and try to save the unborn child's life. Pro-life means to use abortion only when necessary. To force a 15-year-old who is the victim of rape or incest, to force that child, a 15-year-old, to raise that baby is definitely out of the question, unless this is your family tradition where fathers mate with daughters, etc., or brothers with sisters. Then it is not a good thing, ever.

That is where other options come in. 1. The teen can bring the baby to term and choose adoption. 2. The parents of the teen can step in and raise the baby. 3. Or in the case of rape or incest, which both have legal ramifications, it's never reported and there are no charges upon the rapist nor on the one committing incest, then it is quietly hushed and the lady has to either go find a place to have an abortion or shut up and give in and give birth to a child who is unwanted and definitely NOT conceived in love.

Such a choice. Think of it.

This is not a question of choice. It is a question of forcing a woman to make the worst decisions, just for a man who can't control himself and can't keep his equipment under control.

If it is consensual, with both being of age, then it is up to them to discuss the issue of having a child and making the decisions.

 

[SolomonVII]

My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
Your eyes saw my unformed body.
Psalm 139:15

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.
Jeremiah 1:5​

Don't spirits and souls exist before conception? Why would two people having sex, force God's hand to automatically pop out a soul & spirit? That seems to me to go against divine omniPotence.

God breathes life into us.
We do not pre-exist our conception. Only God's breath of life is eternal; we are not
God's hand is not force. Without God's cooperation, a new life is not formed.
We cooperate with God in bringing forth new life on this earth. Children, with their freshness and their promise are God's great delight. The kingdom of heaven is reserved for beings who possess the spirit of a child.

 

[Fascinated With God]

In Luke 10:15, Jesus speaks of being lifted up to heaven and going down as far as Sheol. This shows that it was a comfortable teaching for Judaism of the time.

I missed this.

Sheol is Hebrew, the word used is Hades. From Elysium to Hades in Greek phrasing.

 

[Serving Zion]

I missed this.

Sheol is Hebrew, the word used is Hades. From Elysium to Hades in Greek phrasing.

What difference does that make to your reading of it?

 

[Fascinated With God]

One thing about the devils trickery and spiritual workings in us verses

You said the devil works in verses. lol... He does know the Bible backwards and forwards.

With the devil one physiological and or spiritual part of your being becomes super enhanced at the expense of the other parts or compartments.

Well, you put out the words compartments for the spirit and enhancing one at the expense of another, which obviously comes from personal experience. So I'll add that the most dangerous ones are the ones who compress all of their spirit compartments into a single compartment. In my dreams, I see them as terminators, just a metal skeleton.

It is certainly true that the dark side uses bliss to deceive. The main distinction is whether the euphoric feeling opens your heart, or just induces a drugged blissed-out state as you say.

On the other extreme, the dark side can get people thru fear as well. "Fear leads to hate" as Yoda said. Or not taking proper moral action out of fear of material loss. There is a list of strategies they use.

#1 is trying to convince people that evil doesn't exist beyond man himself. It is like the way HIV fools the immune system into not recognizing it as a threat. If they can convince someone they don't exist they've already won, the person's guard is completely down.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

.

I am still patiently waiting for the verses please.

I want them for my records.

 

[salt-n-light]

My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
Your eyes saw my unformed body.
Psalm 139:15

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.
Jeremiah 1:5​

Don't spirits and souls exist before conception? Why would two people having sex, force God's hand to automatically pop out a soul & spirit? That seems to me to go against divine omniPotence.

Wait what?

 

[Saint Steven]

The Traducian view as presented in scripture is: In Christian theology, traducianism is a doctrine about the origin of the soul (or synonymously, "spirit"), holding that this immaterial aspect is transmitted through natural generation along with the body, the material aspect of human beings.

That is, the soul forms in the womb just as our fingers and arms do.

That's good. But I see the soul as not being "formed" in the sense of developing but rather as a fully formed individuality at conception. In the same way that the genetic information from the father and mother combine to create a physical individual, the spiritual "finger print" of the soul as an individual is set in motion. In a sense, the soul is fully developed, the physical body has to catch up. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[Saint Steven]

… No, it says "in the secret place in the depths of the earth". That is not the womb.

It's an analogy for the womb. Do you also believe in literal knitting? Does God knit us like a sweater?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Don't spirits and souls exist before conception? Why would two people having sex, force God's hand to automatically pop out a soul & spirit? That seems to me to go against divine omniPotence.

2Peter2:12 "They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish."

“I will not blot out his name out of the book of life” (Rv 3:5)

We need to be born again and a new creation in Christ. Names are written in the Lambs book of life from the foundation of the world. We are told that there will be names blotted out of the lambs book of life.

God writes the book of our life before we are even born. The angels read the book and they do what they can to help us to follow God's plan and purpose for us and our life.

There were a lot of new beginnings with Adam and Eve around 6,000 years ago. Adam was the first husband and Eve was the first wife. This was when man became a food producer. Before Adam and Eve man was a food gather like the animals.

 

[Saint Steven]

You are presuming that God has no control over whether or not conception occurs.

That's an interesting point. However, if you blindfold yourself and drove at full throttle down the road, does God control whether or not you will have a terrible accident? We could say, "Yes He does." But most likely he let's us take the natural consequences of our actions under free will. The same is true for sex. Natural consequences.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
Your eyes saw my unformed body.
Psalm 139:15

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.
Jeremiah 1:5​

Don't spirits and souls exist before conception? Why would two people having sex, force God's hand to automatically pop out a soul & spirit? That seems to me to go against divine omniPotence.

How is it forcing God's hand if He loves everyone and the child is just a new person to love?

 

[joshua 1 9]

It's an analogy for the womb. Do you also believe in literal knitting? Does God knit us like a sweater?

Usually people believe that our soul is knit together with our body before we are born. Then at death we are able to leave the body behind until the resurrection.