Pro-Life means sex creates souls?

Fascinated With God

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I didn’t say it was the Holy Spirit and I’m quite sure your spiritual experiences aren’t divine in nature.
What are your's like by comparison?

*crickets chirp*

I see. You are an intellectual Christian, not prone to having tangible spiritual experiences.

Perhaps I should just go all out Jewish if Christians get so upset at me agreeing with them about the nature of the soul and spirit, vs. what the Jews/OT think. LOL
 
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Zoey <3

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No. Pro-life means that once a baby is beginning to be formed, that baby is a child of God.

"Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own"
1 Corinthians 6:19

That baby is a person. It is a temple of the Holy Spirit. By getting an abortion, you are murdering a child and eliminating a temple of the Holy Spirit.

"Thou shalt not kill."
Exodus 20:13
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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What are your's like by comparison?

*crickets chirp*

I see. You are an intellectual Christian, not prone to having tangible spiritual experiences.

Perhaps I should just go all out Jewish if Christians get so upset at me agreeing with them about the nature of the soul and spirit, vs. what the Jews/OT think. LOL

Well, have seen hundreds of healings when I prayed for people who were sick . Many of those healings were the result of the physical power of God which is quite tangible. All in the name of Jesus mind you.
 
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Natsumi Lam

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We're talking abortion here so comparing birth vs. abortion to harvesting seems rather inappropriate even to me, and I'm not Pro-Life.

I prefer facts and logical arguments to opinions and slogans. But thank you for your opinion anyway.

I am waiting patiently for ur biblical basis and facts to your opinions.
 
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Blade

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"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, " Yes... before.. BEFORE you were formed IN THE WOMB...I knew you. No where does it say one was already alive. That spark.. that breath comes from God yet.. Even GOD does not brake His word. It takes a MAN+WOMEN for life. No GULF with souls just waiting to come to earth.
 
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Fascinated With God

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Well, have seen hundreds of healings when I prayed for people who were sick . Many of those healings were the result of the physical power of God which is quite tangible. All in the name of Jesus mind you.
My apologies.

I'm fascinated by any experience of God, but what I am most interested in is what it felt like. I believe in healings, but I'm more interested in the inner experience of the healer than the healed.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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What are your's like by comparison?

*crickets chirp*

I see. You are an intellectual Christian, not prone to having tangible spiritual experiences.

Perhaps I should just go all out Jewish if Christians get so upset at me agreeing with them about the nature of the soul and spirit, vs. what the Jews/OT think. LOL
Also along these lines. I cut my Christian teeth in Woodland Hills, CA. Huge Jewish population. My favorite group of people to witness to. My wife and I were apartment managers of a 25 unit building. We befriended a 70 year old Jewish woman, life long Democrat, New Yorker, public school teacher. Her daughter was the first female Rabbi of her denomination. Our first conversation started with her telling me Hitler was a Christian.

Anyway she fell in love with our little children. Was at our apartment almost every day for five years. I had many, many, many, conversations. Spent 5 years showing her Jesus in the OT. She always threw off the OT Scripture with the stories of four spiritual experiences she had with God that she interpreted as revealing she was OK with God. I never denied her experiences as being from God but that didn't exempt her from faith that saves.

Near the end of 5 years there everything began to be quite miraculous. We were having a Bible study when she came over and again we all brought her through many OT chapters about Jesus. The room felt like fire and hot oil with the power of God. She once more threw it all off with the four experiences she had and went home. We were dumbfounded because if the nastiest Marine drill sergeant on earth was in that room with the power and presence of God like it was he would have been curled up in a fetal position crying like a a baby. So we prayed for her.

The next day I come home from work my wife says you need to go talk to Sherri, she says Jesus appeared to her when she fell down. I was totally incredulous. I said she has Parkinson's and fell down and imagined it. Wife says you need to go up there. ( I was tired. people were not leaving us alone. I worked 10, 12 hours a day come home and people want to talk about God.) So I go up there and I asked what happened. She said she was standing in her living room and just started to fall backwards and didn't even know why she did it, but cried out Jesus as she was falling. Then she said he was right there about four feet away standing about a foot off the ground.

I was still doubting and asked well did he say anything? She belted out what he said word for word in a type of language and phraseology she had never used. It was a prophecy all about the rest of her life, what was going to happen to her and at the end he said just hang on to me through it. It was not a good news prophecy. My doubt vanished like a breath. I said woe, that was the Good Shepard! Did it come to pass? With a vengeance.

I have always felt this ever since. That seeing Sherri in heaven would make everything I have gone through as a Christian worth it. By the way she was not the only one who Jesus appeared to during that time. Some months earlier we had a new tenant. He just disappeared for three weeks and we were wondering what happened. Then my wife found out he was binge drinking Jack Daniels in the apartment for the entire three weeks. She made him dinner and brought it down, knocked on the door and gave it to him. His testimony was when he turned around there was Jesus, standing in the hall way. Instant miraculous recovery, no withdrawals, healed, saved, transformed. When I went down there to talk to him there must have been a quart bottle of Jack Daniels for every day he disappeared empty laying on the floor. Sad to say I didn't really believe his story about Jesus appearing to him until it happened to Sherri. Can't deny the change he was exhibiting though.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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My apologies.

I'm fascinated by any experience of God, but what I am most interested in is what it felt like. I believe in healings, but I'm more interested in the inner experience of the healer than the healed.

Well, there are the simple answer to prayer healing were nothing is felt by the person\s praying but someone gets healed. Then there are the manifestations of the Holy Spirit that come upon you "mightily" as the scripture says. Some times so strong you don't think you'll survive it. This is not an inward experience I am talking about but an outward experience with lots of inward ramifications. Pours upon you like a river of water and flows right over you to the subject of healing. Can knock them down, can throw them 20 feet. And there is all points in between this. There are further, or other baptisms of the Holy Spirit like this to. All of this only in the name of Jesus. No other name, no God that will answer this way except in his name.
 
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FireDragon76

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My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
Your eyes saw my unformed body.
Psalm 139:15

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.
Jeremiah 1:5​

Don't spirits and souls exist before conception? Why would two people having sex, force God's hand to automatically pop out a soul & spirit? That seems to me to go against divine omniPotence.

I think they see sex in some kind of quasi-sacramental way, it doesn't so much force God's hand as that is the way God makes people, in their mind at least.
 
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Fascinated With God

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Will all you want. The only thing that matters to my post is that one was filled with the Holy Spirit before birth. To quibble over which trimester is only conjecture.
What is the practical meaning of an unconscious blastocyst being filled with the Holy Spirit?

To my mind, being filled with the Holy Spirit is something that affects your consciousness, like the peace that passeth understand, and enhances spiritual abilities like healing. Those are practical effects of being filled with the Holy Spirit.

The message I get from the verses is that it affected her state of mind well before his.

Please note that when the message was delivered to Zechariah, the baby was not even conceived yet, so all your wills prove absolutely NOTHING.
Luke 1:23 When his time of service was completed, he returned home. 24 After this his wife Elizabeth became pregnant and for five months remained in seclusion.
Alright, I concede that point. It could refer to conception as well.
 
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Serving Zion

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No, the verse in Ecclesiastes speculates about where spirits go after death. That is not mentioned anywhere else in the OT.

I once heard a Jewish girl talking about how confusing it was for her trying to grasp Christian cosmology because in Judaism everyone goes to Sheol.

The concept of going to heaven was a Greek import of Elysium. Peter also refers specifically to Tartarus, the place where Zeus cast the Titans, Chronos and the elder gods, but he has the fallen angels and eventually the damned there instead. Tartarus was said to be as far below Hades as Elysium is above Earth.
In Luke 10:15, Jesus speaks of being lifted up to heaven and going down as far as Sheol. This shows that it was a comfortable teaching for Judaism of the time.

I followed your instructions to find 65 occurrences of "Sheol" in the NASB at blueletterbible.org, all of which speak of Sheol as being for the fallen, the sinner. I do not see an instance that supports a theology that every human soul will go there.

I still require to see a quote from the scripture that you read as intending to convey that belief.
 
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Fascinated With God

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Pours upon you like a river of water and flows right over you to the subject of healing. Can knock them down, can throw them 20 feet. And there is all points in between this. There are further, or other baptisms of the Holy Spirit like this to. All of this only in the name of Jesus. No other name, no God that will answer this way except in his name.
Yes! That was exactly what I was talking about when I said pneuma is a better name for spirit than ruach (breath). Pneuma is fluid.

How is it that you feel like you might die?
 
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Fascinated With God

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I followed your instructions to find 65 occurrences of "Sheol" in the NASB at blueletterbible.org
Nice! It is a fantastic tool.

...all of which speak of Sheol as being for the fallen, the sinner. I do not see an instance that supports a theology that every human soul will go there.
No, many of the references are to being consumed with sorrow because of tragedy, not of having done anything wrong.

The most poignant verses in this regard are around 1 Samuel 28:11 where King Saul, in desperation, goes to the witch of Endor to contact the soul of Samuel. “Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.”
 
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Fascinated With God

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I think they see sex in some kind of quasi-sacramental way, it doesn't so much force God's hand as that is the way God makes people, in their mind at least.
This is why I like Lutherans. Thank you! Methodism and Lutheranism are fairly similar theologically these days.

But dare I say it, it makes me think of sex magic rather than sacramental when I think about it like that...
 
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Our first conversation started with her telling me Hitler was a Christian.
YIKES!!!

The next day I come home from work my wife says you need to go talk to Sherri, she says Jesus appeared to her when she fell down. I was totally incredulous. I said she has Parkinson's and fell down and imagined it. Wife says you need to go up there. ( I was tired. people were not leaving us alone. I worked 10, 12 hours a day come home and people want to talk about God.) So I go up there and I asked what happened. She said she was standing in her living room and just started to fall backwards and didn't even know why she did it, but cried out Jesus as she was falling. Then she said he was right there about four feet away standing about a foot off the ground.
That is an amazing story of grace in action.

I've never seen Jesus, but I did have a private Marian apparition. I spoke to a monseigneur who was stunned when he heard my description of her as being like a neutron star superimposed over me, but with a density of Light, bliss, meaning and intense purpose to life. He said that was the most articulate description he'd ever heard of her enormity that experiencers have great difficulty describing.

I have dreamed about Jesus. At one of the lowest points in my life. In my dream, he was my best friend and we were just hanging out as a friend would do giving me emotional support.
 
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Serving Zion

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Nice! It is a fantastic tool.

No, many of the references are to being consumed with sorrow because of tragedy, not of having done anything wrong.
It is an interesting distinction and observation. Worth thinking about :oldthumbsup:
The most poignant verses in this regard are around 1 Samuel 28:11 where King Saul, in desperation, goes to the witch of Endor to contact the soul of Samuel. He tells the witch, “Bring up for me Samuel.”
I can not accept that scripture as teaching Jewish doctrine, because in this case, the king has subjected himself to the spirit of the witch, so then he is not exercising Judaism but necromancy, which is a practice of an inferior religion (eg: Deuteronomy 18:9-13).

Notice in Leviticus 19:31, we are warned of being "polluted/defiled" by them. This is why I cannot receive that scripture for the purpose of representing Jewish teaching.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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Yes! That was exactly what I was talking about when I said pneuma is a better name for spirit than ruach (breath). Pneuma is fluid.

How is it that you feel like you might die?
Well one time specifically. It's a long story that led me to a certain point but when it happened. I heard what I could only describe as a hundred car freight train bearing down on me a 80 miles an hour. Horn blowing, light flashing, ground shaking. It hit me right as I opened my mouth to prophesy and what a prophecy! Afterwards it felt like if there was just one spark every atom in my body would explode. I had heard or read of this happening to a few individuals and the advice given was to just ride it out. It might take a few weeks to fade. But after about an hour I was begging God to lesson it or take it away. There is not a human experience to describe the power of God. Trying to is almost impossible. You basically just have to describe it with illustrations. Took me a few years to realize what I heard was the rushing mighty wind of the day of Pentecost.
One thing about the devils trickery and spiritual workings in us verses the power of God. With the devil one physiological and or spiritual part of your being becomes super enhanced at the expense of the other parts or compartments. With God it is all at once. Your whole being becomes supernatural all at one time. It's like becoming superman verses the devils trickery, his stuff like a drug induced enhanced experience of one compartment of us.

Another thing, speaking about spiritual matters. The human spirit is like a super computer. Once fully hooked into the human body though our minds, intuition, conscience we become more like a 286 CPU running DOS or Windows 3.1. So humans will mistake a temporary experience of the human spirit as divine because well, it seems supernatural. But that is the mistake and a way the devil can trick us into thinking the experience was divine.

Then there is the experience of God's interaction with all human beings. Problem with his interaction with us is what we do with it. How we interpret it. Look at what people, and please include yourself in this, are doing with God's Word? How they interpret it, pervert it, add to it, take away from it, ignore it. Reading it all in a way that is favorable to themselves and in accord with the commitment of their wills to the gratification of their bodies and minds. If that is done with Gods Word. How much more so with truly divine or semi divine experiences?

It's kind of like this. Right now God is personally evangelizing some hapless Muslim in a Muslim land. Jesus, the man in white is appearing to them. They did not want Jesus to appear to them. They were not looking for that. In many cases their first reaction is anger because it is Jesus and not Mohammedan yet they melt at his words he speaks to them.
Why has this not been happening for the last 1400 years? It did once an a while but for the last two decades it seems everyday Jesus gives a Muslim a Saul of Taurus experience. To both the radical Islamist and the good Muslim. The answer to that question? Not only are millions of believers praying for them but in the last few decades Muslims have gained access to two different things they really did not have access to before. Real Christians and Bibles. That story wherever repeated always has this added to it. They know a Christian or a village where some Christian are and they get a Bible from them.

It is all about Gods Word. Don't read into it what you think you know or understand. Let it read into you with its own authoritativeness that is separate and apart from men's viewpoints. God will honor the person who does that and meet them where they are at. He will reject those who reject the Word that speaks in its own authority that all people are subject to.
 
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Fascinated With God

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Notice in Leviticus 19:31, we are warned of being "polluted/defiled" by them. This is why I cannot receive that scripture for the purpose of representing Jewish teaching.
It is precisely because it IS real that it is dangerous and warned against. Talking to the dead was especially dangerous then because people were much more primitive and brutal then. Still isn't a healthy idea.

But all that aside, the Bible affirms that this really was the prophet Samuel who came *up* from Sheol. If even nearly spotless prophets went to Sheol then clearly everyone did.

Luke 16:19-31 demonstrates this in the NT. The leperous Lazarus goes to Abraham's side while the rich man who never helped him goes to Hades. Lazarus is not described as being above the rich man, though they are an enormous distance apart: "a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

Classic Jewish cosmology. Keep in mind that all but one of the authors of the Bible were Jewish and all the early apostles and followers were Jews.
 
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