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Priest accused of causing "mental conflict" by preaching Catholic doctrine; gay...

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Michie, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. ThePilgrim

    ThePilgrim Veteran

    +168
    Eastern Orthodox
  2. Tallguy88

    Tallguy88 We shall see the King when he comes! Supporter

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    I agree 100%. Too many people focus on Law only, God's wrath with our failings. And too many people forget there is a Law in the first place, saying "Jesus isn't going to send you to hell, do whatever you want..."

    There has to be proper teaching of both Law AND Gospel.
     
  3. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

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    Having worked alongside school chaplains who are also parish priests I am quite certain that is not true.
     
  4. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

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    He doesn't necessarily have to avoid saying what the church teaches, but the way he needs to say that may be very different.

    If he can't make that distinction between the roles then he shouldn't be chaplain in a public institution.
     
  5. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

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    Of course. I'm not suggesting otherwise.
     
  6. MKJ

    MKJ Contributor

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    Heck, Saint Augustine said that a thousand years ago or so.
     
  7. MKJ

    MKJ Contributor

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    They are different jobs. That is like saying the expectations of a parish priest are the same as one who is a teacher, or scientist, or administrator, or missionary.

    A parish priest is dealing mainly with people who are of his own faith, and his job is to provide the sacraments, make sure the parish is managed properly, and to teach the faith.

    The job of a chaplain is rather different, firstly because the people the chaplain are responsible includes many people who are not of his own religion, secondly because much of the work is pastoral care, thirdly because the population is a group with more particular needs (young, away from family, and so on.) You cannot really serve people in the same way under those circumstances.
     
  8. MKJ

    MKJ Contributor

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    I do not see where ebia has said anything that disagrees with that. He has just said the approach in a chaplaincy is going to be somewhat different than in a parish. Catholic parishes tend to have mostly Catholic people. University chaplains are often dealing with people who are not of their religion - they might be of a totally different religion or non-religious. It does not necessarily make sense to try and present some issues to such people in the same way you would to members of your own group.
     
  9. MKJ

    MKJ Contributor

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    The Old Catholics are not a new group - they have been around since Vatican I.
     
  10. JimR-OCDS

    JimR-OCDS God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love

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    The only difference is the age of the group he ministers to.

    He's a priest whether in a parish or as a Catholic Chaplain for Catholic students. BTW, my niece is a student at George Washington University.

    He still teaches the same doctrines of the Catholic Church, regardless.

    He's the Catholic Chaplain for the Catholic Students, just as the Baptist Chaplain is the chaplain for Baptist students and the Rabbi Chaplain is for Jewish students.

    All work within the doctrines of their respective faiths.


    You made the assumption that he's the University Chaplain for all the students, which as I've shown above, isn't the case.

    Jim
     
  11. Lilly Owl

    Lilly Owl Since when is God's adversary a curse word here?

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    And so it begins!
    "Mental Conflict". So these homosexuals feel mentally conflicted and seek to revoke the first amendment freedom of a priest in his religious beliefs, teachings, and in the teaching thereof.

    Wait! This is just the beginning. Homosexuals get the right to stand equal under the law and the extremist radicals among them will seek to yoke everyone else who stands opposed.
     
  12. ThePilgrim

    ThePilgrim Veteran

    +168
    Eastern Orthodox
    You said that, as a chaplain, he should avoid commenting on the homosexuality itself. That's what I'm saying is silly. To counsel someone that comes to him, he has to do so based on a given set of values and beliefs which, if he's a Catholic priest, are going to be based on Catholic teachings, as they should be.

    We cannot keep our morality to one side because we also have a different role. The students are also upset because he opposes abortion. As a Catholic, he firmly believes that abortion is literally the murder of an innocent child. Is he supposed to adopt a different morality while in public, where he's not opposed to the willful causing of the death of a child?
     
  13. ThePilgrim

    ThePilgrim Veteran

    +168
    Eastern Orthodox
    If you're suggesting that by being a chaplain in a public setting, he should be less focused on doctrine and more on counseling and pastoral care, then you are certainly positing a type of pastoral care or a type of counseling that is not informed by doctrine, belief, and worldview. What, then, would be the basis for that counseling?
     
  14. ThePilgrim

    ThePilgrim Veteran

    +168
    Eastern Orthodox
    By saying that he should avoid addressing the homosexuality itself, he is positing a kind of pastoral care formed by some other worldview than those of a Catholic priest. That's an even stranger idea, since the student coming to him was himself Catholic and altar server and spiritual child.
     
  15. ThePilgrim

    ThePilgrim Veteran

    +168
    Eastern Orthodox
    I don't believe I said that Old Catholics were a new group :)

    However, they are very splintered, into multiple different sects, some of which are more serious and noteworthy than others. Some of them have actual long histories, parishes, parishioners, and stability. Others of them are basically episcopi vagantes who start their own group, give themselves exalted titles, and have about as many clergy as faithful.

    Pretty much any group that offers quick ordination (and that advertises on their website how to become clergy) or that has an elaborate "apostolic succession" chart is a non-serious group. Facebook is full of such bishops, who have no real flock.

    The Church is not the clergy and the clergy are not better than the laity. The clergy exist within the Church for the service of actual flocks.

    In Christ,
    Fr. John
     
  16. MKJ

    MKJ Contributor

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    Not at all.

    But ideas, and actions based on them, have an order. The idea that homosexual activity is a bad thing is dependent on a lot of other ideas about marriage, sexuality, sex roles, and so on.

    If you know someone does not share those ideas, or understand them, you cannot present the issue in the same way you would if they did. And if you are in a position where you are responsible to help someone who explicitly does not agree with those underlying ideas, you may have to take a different approach than you would with someone who did.

    That does not mean saying something that is untrue, or that you would have to refrain from saying something challenging. It is just a matter of considering what thoughts that person will be able to use to help him at that time, perhaps which ones will help him come to a place where he can see the bigger picture eventually, or that will take the pressure off the situation, or whatever.

    Anyway, I dont tend to think that what these students describe really falls outside of what would be normally expected. Even non-religious students would, I think, expect to be told that the CC does not accept such relationships if they approached a priest about it.
     
  17. MKJ

    MKJ Contributor

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    Yes, I know they have many different groups, some of which I would not touch with a ten foot pole. I have no idea which of them this student has associated himself with, so I would not want to comment on them.
     
  18. ThePilgrim

    ThePilgrim Veteran

    +168
    Eastern Orthodox
    It would be one thing if they were asking for the priest's removal, not on the basis of the content of his faith, but in his manner of conveying them. If he had yelled at the student, called him names, used anti-gay slurs, disclosed private confessions to others, or otherwise behaved inappropriately, those could all be grounds for asking for his removal.

    However, it's very clear from all articles on the subject that what they are objecting to is the content of the chaplain's faith. They are objecting to his adhering to what his Church teaches on homosexual actions and abortion. That being the case, no chaplain in that position could, in good conscience, act otherwise.

    In Christ,
    Fr. John
     
  19. Michie

    Michie Human rights begin in the womb. Supporter

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    Um, yeah...

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  20. ThePilgrim

    ThePilgrim Veteran

    +168
    Eastern Orthodox
    A group that, apparently, is okay with ordaining a college student, without seminary training and very shortly after meeting him. It's clear from one of the articles that the ordination was almost instant upon contact being established with the bishop.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
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