Preterism

[parousia70]

How long did it take for Gen.3:15 to be fulfilled?

What does that have to do with your "firstfruits" analogy?
NOTHING!
Was Genesis 3:15 prophesied to happen "Shortly"? was it to happen "soon", Did God promise it was "about to take place" back in the garden?
NO!

I've already answered this in one of the threads that got deleted because of the crash and you know it. What do you think?

Clearly Christ's wounds remained intact for evedintairy purposes.
Likewise He retained His physical form until he was glorified at the ascention.

As we will have nothing to prove to anyone, we (Believers) will not retain our wounds or even our physical body after we die, but are instantly glorified, clothed in our resurrection bodies while our physical bodies return to the dust from which they came.

Wound retention and decay free physicality were for Christ alone, for the explicit purpose of providing evidence He had indeed risin.

 

[Justme]

Hi 4jesus,

You wrote:
No, the Church has risen before them.
********************

The above is in answer to this that I had written:
We know that the ones we are calling tribulation saints reign with christ for 1000 years.
We also know that this is the FIRST resurrection.
The first, only Jesus had arisen from the dead prior to them.
************************

So now you want to include this church group in the first resurrection, but at a different stage or time.

Anyway no matter how or when, here we have the beheaded from Rev.20 verse 4, the 144000, just cause, and now the 'church', all reigning with Christ for 1000 years and part of the biblical FIRST resurrection of Rev.20:4,6.

The rest of the dead will rise after the 1000 years.

You see these as being only the wicked, and the only time the wicked are resurrected is at the white throne judgment.

All this will happen in the future and it will take place on earth.///Is that right???

I'm hoping I have not added or taken away from your meaning.

Is this what you see as the biblical story of resurrection? Have I came any where near your meaning.

Please, feel free to arrange this differently if you wish.
Before you reply tho I think you should read about the white throne judgment in Rev 20:11-15.

Justme

 

[4Jesus]

What does that have to do with your "firstfruits" analogy?
NOTHING!
Was Genesis 3:15 prophesied to happen "Shortly"? was it to happen "soon", Did God promise it was "about to take place" back in the garden?
NO!

How do you know how short is shortly? Since Scripture says, a day is as a thousand years with the Lord.

Clearly Christ's wounds remained intact for evedintairy purposes.
Likewise He retained His physical form until he was glorified at the ascention.

As we will have nothing to prove to anyone, we (Believers) will not retain our wounds or even our physical body after we die, but are instantly glorified, clothed in our resurrection bodies while our physical bodies return to the dust from which they came.

Wound retention and decay free physicality were for Christ alone, for the explicit purpose of providing evidence He had indeed risin.

Ah, good, you remembered my post.

 

[parousia70]

How do you know how short is shortly? Since Scripture says, a day is as a thousand years with the Lord.

4J,
Just as God dosen't have "a long time", God doesn't have "shortly". Nothing happens "shortly" for God. God is timeless.
To confine God to the term "shortly" blasphemes His name.
Shortly is a term given to be understood by how time relates to man, not God.

Ah, good, you remembered my post.

Ah, good, you agree our earthly bodies will not be reanimated, but return to dust.

Looks like we are making progress!

 

[4Jesus]

4J,Ah, good, you agree our earthly bodies will not be reanimated, but return to dust.

Looks like we are making progress!

The only thing I was agreeing with you on in post #101 is that Christs wounds were for evidential purposes only, which is what I had said in the thread that got deleted because of the crash. Other than that I have nothing else to say on reusrrection since I have hased this out with Justme already. Just go read my comments in previous posts if you still don't grasp what I believe the bible says.

 

[parousia70]

The only thing I was agreeing with you on in post #101 is that Christs wounds were for evidential purposes only.

What is it then, Biblical or otherwise, that prevents you from extending that "evidential purpose only" to his entire "physical body"?

This, to my knowledge, you have never addressed.

 

[Crusader]

Preterism is a Jesuit invention not a Protestant Reformed teaching. Preterism was first advanced in 1604 by Jesuit Luis de Alcasar in his book "Vestigatio Arcani Sensus in Apocalypsi" to destroy the Reformed Protestant teaching that the papacy was Mystery Babylon, the Great harlot and the historical Antichrist.

4Jesus, do you have a good website with some more info on this possibility??

oh, also, I can hear you, no need to yell mate

I am big on history, so I am preterist to a certain extent and I can see were preterist are coming from in areas of Bible prophesy being about Israel up till her end around 70 AD but obviously God hasn't finished with Israel because she defiantly is not extinct, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Israel rose to a super power very soon and I can't help seeing that god is not finished with his chosen seed.

another problem I am having with preterism is that if they are right about there doctrines, then the Vatican and the RCC are Jesus eternal kingdom of peace and I don't bye that. I can’t see that the RCC is anything like the original bible church and that makes what you said hear very interesting 4Jesus, if you can show me it is true, because I don‘t trust those Jesuits (Catholic CIA).

I have been interested in preterism for about a year now but never got the chance to study it to much. I became interested because they see a lot of bible prophesy as I do and when I see some things I understand as future, I also have a strange niggling that it could have past at a particular time in a preterist manner, not because of preterist doctrines but simply because that seems to be an obvious possibility..

I have a Problem with full preterism at the moment, mostly because I don’t yet fully understand it but it seems to me that Jesus Christ rose from the dead in the flesh and promises that he is the first of many brethren, so I take the resurrection literally (physically) and not spiritually.

I am shore to have a lot of questions coming up, especially questions on why church fathers , way after 70 AD , were still talking about Jesus return and the future resurrection, so, I don’t get that at all???
I will try to show some of this over the next few days, not to try to prove preterism wrong but rather to try to understand it better because I think I could be a part preterist and I would like to measure that.

 

[GW]

CRUSADER:
I am big on history, so I am preterist to a certain extent and I can see were preterist are coming from in areas of Bible prophesy being about Israel up till her end around 70 AD but obviously God hasn't finished with Israel because she defiantly is not extinct, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Israel rose to a super power very soon and I can't help seeing that god is not finished with his chosen seed.

GW:
Hi Crusader. Jesus and the Jewish apostles and their Jewish followers were true Israel. The remnant followers of the Messiah were Israel, and they themselves explicitly stated such (Gal 6:15-16; Phil 3:3; 1 Peter 2:9; Gal 3:29). Messiah and his Jewish followers regularly accused their apostate natural brothers of not being sons of Abraham (i.e., disinherited via apostasy from the covenant) -- see John 8:38-47; Matt 3:8-9; Jn 15:22-23; 1Jn 2:23; Gal 4:22-31; Acts 3:22-24 and many more.


CRUSADER:
another problem I am having with preterism is that if they are right about there doctrines, then the Vatican and the RCC are Jesus eternal kingdom of peace and I don't bye that. I can’t see that the RCC is anything like the original bible church and that makes what you said hear very interesting 4Jesus, if you can show me it is true, because I don‘t trust those Jesuits (Catholic CIA).

GW:
Being hard on Catholics is a popular sport among protestants, but such sentiments are historically rooted in the error of the Reformers that the Papacy of their day had become the "endtimes antichrist". Based on that myth, they encouraged many to "come out from 'Babylon'." So while their eschatological reasonings proved to be mere superstition, their attitude of distrust against the historic Church has continued on for centuries anyway. Protestants may need to rethink those roots some.

Having said that, preterism is rooted in the apostolic writers that taught a Parousia of Christ that was for their generation. While later ECFs strayed from full preterism, they continued to be strongly preterist. For example, we know that a great many ECFs taught that the great tribulation took place at AD 66-70. They were preteristic, even if not fully so.


CRUSADER:
I have been interested in preterism for about a year now but never got the chance to study it to much. I became interested because they see a lot of bible prophesy as I do and when I see some things I understand as future, I also have a strange niggling that it could have past at a particular time in a preterist manner, not because of preterist doctrines but simply because that seems to be an obvious possibility.

GW:
Refreshing comments, Crusader. Keep investigating along those lines and see what you find.


CRUSADER:
I have a Problem with full preterism at the moment, mostly because I don’t yet fully understand it but it seems to me that Jesus Christ rose from the dead in the flesh and promises that he is the first of many brethren, so I take the resurrection literally (physically) and not spiritually.

GW:
Preterists are fully orthodox as to the verification of Christ's life again from the dead. However, they believe the immediate application of that showing, as it was understood to the apostles, was that the OT dead who were in hades/sheol were to soon be released to enter Heaven. That was the general resurrection that they taught, and they taught it was to take place soon in their lifetimes. Interestingly, by the time 2 Thess 2:2 was written, Paul's disciples had actually believed the event was a fulfilled one. (They were off by about 12-15 years). The release of the OT dead from hades took place at the end of the age, when the Mosaic covenantal world came to its complete end at AD 70.


CRUSADER:
not to try to prove preterism wrong but rather to try to understand it better because I think I could be a part preterist and I would like to measure that.

GW:
Have you read Gary DeMar's books on preterism? I highly recommend them.

Sweet victory in Jesus.

 

[adelpit346]

Thankyou Lord Jesus for shewing forth the presence of The Holy Ghost on this earth by having gw tell me Jesus is The Lord. amen
i am nothing0
Jesus is The Lord1Praise The Lord1The Lord Jesus. amen