President set to shake hands with Chairman Kim

[timewerx]

Diplomatic conversations with the leaders of other nations is paramount for getting along and reaching agreements. That has nothing to do with making nice, but has everything to do with finding common ground for friendly and peaceful relations.

Works in most cases. But not in every case.

Even if you establish friendly relations with NK, their people would still suffer severely. Worse, they would be readily exploited for very cheap source of labor should economic activities are established in the partnership.

Sure, some people would profit / prosper from it and even improve economy. But at the cost of some (citizens of North Korea), silencing the cries of justice.

There are things far more valuable than acquiring profit.

I'm simply looking at things from a Christian POV. I don't think we can act with coldness or indifference when it comes to global affairs. We'd rather be saving the oppressed, than saving money or peace at the cost of the weak.

 

[jacks]

Works in most cases. But not in every case.

Even if you establish friendly relations with NK, their people would still suffer severely. Worse, they would be readily exploited for very cheap source of labor should economic activities are established in the partnership.

Sure, some people would profit / prosper from it and even improve economy. But at the cost of some (citizens of North Korea), silencing the cries of justice.

There are things far more valuable than acquiring profit.

You could be right, but couldn't this also happen. Kim decides to curtail nuclear testing in exchange for economic assistance that helps bring the entire country up to a higher standard of living. Do we at this point really know what the outcome will be? Isn't it worth a shot?

 

[Zanting]

Works in most cases. But not in every case.

Even if you establish friendly relations with NK, their people would still suffer severely. Worse, they would be readily exploited for very cheap source of labor should economic activities are established in the partnership.

Sure, some people would profit / prosper from it and even improve economy. But at the cost of some (citizens of North Korea), silencing the cries of justice.

There are things far more valuable than acquiring profit.

I'm simply looking at things from a Christian POV. I don't think we can act with coldness or indifference when it comes to global affairs. We'd rather be saving the oppressed, than saving money or peace at the cost of the weak.

Quite frankly...and no offense...but you have no idea how things will work out with NK...no one does at this point. But at least the POTUS is doing his best to sort things out with NK and bring peace and prosperity between the two countries...and he's making headway...that's more then can be said for any other US leader.

 

[timewerx]

You could be right, but couldn't this also happen. Kim decides to curtail nuclear testing in exchange for economic assistance that helps bring the entire country up to a higher standard of living. Do we at this point really know what the outcome will be? Isn't it worth a shot?

I lived most of my life in a 3rd world country run by very corrupt people.

As usual with wicked authoritiarian regimes, or countries plagued by major corruption, increased national profits doesn't trickle down to everyone. Only the top few gets to have a taste of improved standard of living.

Trump could also benefit greatly from any trading activity that might be struck with NK. Think ridiculously cheap NK labor costs...

Obviously, trade between USA and NK would likely improve economy on a global scale.

Sounds great for those who loves money. But the plight of those under the NK regime would remain unresolved.

"The love of money is the root of all evil" Because one thing it does is blind you to the evil done to and suffering of many people around the world.

.

 

[jacks]

I lived most of my life in a 3rd world country run by very corrupt people.

As usual with wicked authoritiarian regimes, or countries plagued by major corruption, increased national profits doesn't trickle down to everyone. Only the top few gets to have a taste of improved standard of living.

Trump could also benefit greatly from any trading activity that might be struck with NK. Think ridiculously cheap NK labor costs...

Obviously, trade between USA and NK would likely improve economy on a global scale.

Sounds great for those who loves money. But the plight of those under the NK regime would remain unresolved.

"The love of money is the root of all evil" Because one thing it does is blind you to the evil done to and suffering of many people around the world.

.

So is there another approach you would suggest? Or is it just hopeless and nothing should be tried?

 

[timewerx]

So is there another approach you would suggest? Or is it just hopeless and nothing should be tried?

I would rather try to rescue the people oppressed by the regime.

As instructed by the Bible:

1 John 3:16-18
This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. 17 If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? 18 Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

This is probably the LEAST economically viable option but then the Bible also told us NOT to love money. Love of money is hatred of God - Luke 16:13.

I bet some would tell money could help a lot of people. And I would say TRUE. But does anyone actually go out of their way to help the suffering with money to any substantial degree?


.

 

[Zanting]

I lived most of my life in a 3rd world country run by very corrupt people.

As usual with wicked authoritiarian regimes, or countries plagued by major corruption, increased national profits doesn't trickle down to everyone. Only the top few gets to have a taste of improved standard of living.

Trump could also benefit greatly from any trading activity that might be struck with NK. Think ridiculously cheap NK labor costs...

Obviously, trade between USA and NK would likely improve economy on a global scale.

Sounds great for those who loves money. But the plight of those under the NK regime would remain unresolved.

"The love of money is the root of all evil" Because one thing it does is blind you to the evil done to and suffering of many people around the world.

.

Very good...I get that...but it comes from a greater evil than just one man...or leader...who are often puppets groomed to perform a duty for the greater evil.

And...Change cannot happen if an effort isn't made to do so. An effort is being made to do so. A chance is being given to change ones ways...and that's all one can do.

 

[jacks]

I would rather try to rescue the people oppressed by the regime.

That sounds good. Exactly how do we do that? If we send money/food won't it be stolen by the regime? We can't go get them can we? Maybe the only way is to try to raise the countries standard of living as a whole, through trade and bringing North Korea more into the international community. These are just thoughts, I'm open to any practical approach.

 

[_Dave_]

My thought when I saw the photo of President Trump crossing the border into North Korea was that Trump is brilliant, a genius. In one simple step over that border he totally deligitimized Kim's status as a bad-boy rogue nation.

By offering North Korea a place at the grownups' table, the unspoken commitment is that Kim will start acting as a grownup ... or else.

Kim can no longer hide in the dark making threats against the United States, because he has now shook the hand of the most powerful man in the world in the full light for all the world to see. Any threats from him now will not be against a nameless enemy across the wide ocean, but against a man who came to him and treated him with respect; which moves negotiating into a totally different paradigm.

And I am absolutely, completely confident that Trump will not only spot any subterfuge or falseness in Kim's behavior, but he'll also be several steps ahead ... just like he is with most things.

I see nothing but good coming from this meeting.

 

[FireDragon76]

Works in most cases. But not in every case.

Even if you establish friendly relations with NK, their people would still suffer severely. Worse, they would be readily exploited for very cheap source of labor should economic activities are established in the partnership.

Sure, some people would profit / prosper from it and even improve economy. But at the cost of some (citizens of North Korea), silencing the cries of justice.

There are things far more valuable than acquiring profit.

I'm simply looking at things from a Christian POV. I don't think we can act with coldness or indifference when it comes to global affairs. We'd rather be saving the oppressed, than saving money or peace at the cost of the weak.

Trump is in love with his perception of Kim as an authoritarian, because he sees a "kindred spirit" in terms of a proclivity towards authoritarianism.

 

[Ringo84]

I guess he got his photo op, but whether this will actually change anything on the ground is.....questionable. All this seems to have accomplished in my eyes is a propaganda victory for Kim, who has been looking for worldwide legitimacy.
Ringo

 

[Peter J Barban]

I wonder if you had the same kind of approach to Obama's meeting with dictators, opening up trade with them, and singing their praise?
DL(somehow I doubt it )

I thought about that. With either Obama, Clinton, or Carter I would welcome the diplomacy but be very worried that they would end up with a bad deal for America.

I expect Trump to get a better deal or no deal.

 

[timewerx]

That sounds good. Exactly how do we do that? If we send money/food won't it be stolen by the regime? We can't go get them can we? Maybe the only way is to try to raise the countries standard of living as a whole, through trade and bringing North Korea more into the international community. These are just thoughts, I'm open to any practical approach.

I was speaking more in the lines of military intervention as USA did in the past but this time with humanitarian objectives in mind. Much higher priority on humanitarian objectives instead of political/strategic or economic objectives.

This will likely go along with covert operations to avoid direct confrontation of NK military and thus, avoiding civilian casualties.

 

[timewerx]

My thought when I saw the photo of President Trump crossing the border into North Korea was that Trump is brilliant, a genius. In one simple step over that border he totally deligitimized Kim's status as a bad-boy rogue nation.

By offering North Korea a place at the grownups' table, the unspoken commitment is that Kim will start acting as a grownup ... or else.

Kim can no longer hide in the dark making threats against the United States, because he has now shook the hand of the most powerful man in the world in the full light for all the world to see. Any threats from him now will not be against a nameless enemy across the wide ocean, but against a man who came to him and treated him with respect; which moves negotiating into a totally different paradigm.

And I am absolutely, completely confident that Trump will not only spot any subterfuge or falseness in Kim's behavior, but he'll also be several steps ahead ... just like he is with most things.

I see nothing but good coming from this meeting.

Let's not forget the rest of the NK population - the average NK citizen.

Smiles and handshakes won't change the fact they would still live under the rule of terror.

This is 3rd world country or even worse. I live in one so so I know. Pats on the back won't improve their living conditions. You are not dealing with "civilized" western leaders who cares a bit more about their citizens.

They will only get money earned from deals for themselves.

Don't let the money prospects blind you from the more important issue at hand, the living conditions of the average NK citizen.

 

[Newtheran]

What do you folks think?

I'm fine with it. Don't know if anything will come of it, but certainly the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama way of dealing with North Korea was an abject failure.

"...nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges towards another an habitual hatred, or an habitual fondness, is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence, frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests. The nation, prompted by ill-will and resentment, sometimes impels to war the government, contrary to the best calculations of policy. The government sometimes participates in the national propensity, and adopts through passion what reason would reject; at other times, it makes the animosity of the nation subservient to projects of hostility instigated by pride, ambition, and other sinister and pernicious motives. The peace often, sometimes perhaps the liberty, of nations has been the victim."

- George Washington
1st President of the United States

 

[Gregory Thompson]

CNN is reporting live visuals that the President is all set to shake hands with Chairman Kim of the DPRK. The President, should that happen, will also be the first incumbent to cross the DMZ into DPRK territory to shake hands with the DPRK strongman.

Live: Following G20, Trump to visit the DMZ in hopes of meeting Kim - CNNPolitics

Nothing substantial is expected but I believe that a photo OP or friendly gesture is better than no gesture. Some administration hawks think this will weaken the US position. What do you folks think?

On a positive note, Dennis Rodman tweeted in support!

PS: The President did cross over into the DPRK side of the DMZ to shake hands with Mr. Kim.

I wonder if Trump brought a hand buzzer for the hand shake ...

 

[Pat123456]

Corinthians 15:33
Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.”

Jesus for President:
https://teespring.com/en-GB/new-jesus-for-president-2020?79ba6c4923#pid=389&cid=100020&sid=front

 

[Zanting]

Corinthians 15:33
Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.”

Jesus for President:
https://teespring.com/en-GB/new-jesus-for-president-2020?79ba6c4923#pid=389&cid=100020&sid=front

Well until Jesus is President...we'll have to all get along with others as best we can. Jesus didn't hide among the saints, but walked among the sinners to show them the way.

 

[Pat123456]

Well until Jesus is President...we'll have to all get along with others as best we can. Jesus didn't hide among the saints, but walked among the sinners to show them the way.

oh ye of little faith
Well Corinthians 4:5 has something to say about that...
"Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God."
Jesus for President:
https://teespring.com/en-GB/new-jesus-for-president-2020?79ba6c4923#pid=389&cid=100020&sid=front

 

[Zanting]

oh ye of little faith
Well Corinthians 4:5 has something to say about that...
"Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God."
Jesus for President:
https://teespring.com/en-GB/new-jesus-for-president-2020?79ba6c4923#pid=389&cid=100020&sid=front

1 Corinthians 4:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

The light has already begun to shine.
Zephaniah 3:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.

10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.