Poll - Once Saved Always Saved

[A Brother In Christ]

every bow down to Ormly .... Must be a god... in his on mind

 

[Ormly]

every bow down to Ormly .... Must be a god... in his on mind

You are just running out of come-backs. Why not take a vacation from the board. Review what has been given you to consider without distorting it in any way.

For some it can help. Unfornunately for some, it never will.

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

You have dodged it, evaded it and twisted it.

If you can't see that I feel sorry for you.

You have persuaded me to believe it is not willful ignorance I am up against but ignorance mixed with irrationality. I believe Calvinism fosters it. Someone wrote they believed Calvinism was a dangerous doctrine. I agree with them. I believe it is a snare, a very strong snare thats robs sincere folk of the ultimate intention of God.

Instead of just stating it as such, maybe you should explain yourself. What you are putting forth is an OPINION, nothing more. You can try to explain so I can better understand, but simply stating something over and over again does not make you correct, and certainly doesn't make it truth. I believe I have explained myself well, with no contradictions and I have answered all of your questions completely forthright. Yet you do not explain yourself but claim that I "have dodged it, evaded it and twisted it". Where you get that from, I don't understand.

I would love to discuss what you and I believe, but you don't seem to want to. You just want to state that I twist people's words without any explanation whatsoever.

If anybody else is following my discussion with Ormly, maybe you can fill me in where I am twisting his words? Because he won't...

As far as Calvinism being a snare, I believe the same thing about Arminianism, so where does that leave us? With two opinions.

 

[MamaZ]

So basically our salvation is depended on us? It is not Christ who saves but men who saves themselves? We cannot be born from above by ourself.. LOL..

 

[MamaZ]

Why haven't mine been answered by you? . . .sincerely, that is?

I have answered your questions..This is just a round about way of evading the questions asked of you. What do you call it willful igorance or something..

 

[chestertonrules]

So basically our salvation is depended on us? It is not Christ who saves but men who saves themselves? We cannot be born from above by ourself.. LOL..

We can only be saved through Christ.

We will be saved IF:

1) We follow the will of God

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

2) We don't refuse to believe

John 3:36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

3) Our faith is alive

James 2:20 "Do you want to be shown you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren?" - James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by WORKS, and not by faith alone."

4) We seek to do the right thing

Romans 2:6-7 "For He will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life."

 

[MamaZ]

We can only be saved through Christ.

We will be saved IF:

1) We follow the will of God

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

2) We don't refuse to believe

John 3:36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

3) Our faith is alive

James 2:20 "Do you want to be shown you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren?" - James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by WORKS, and not by faith alone."

4) We seek to do the right thing

Romans 2:6-7 "For He will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life."

We are saved by Christ there is no ifs or buts.. It is not dependent on what we do but on what He did..

 

[MamaZ]

We can no more save ourselves than the man in the moon.. It is dependent on Christ and What He did to save us. We are not saved if. Once a person is born from above they are born from above. Once you are born of the natural if you don't follow your parents rules does that mean that you were not born?

 

[chestertonrules]

We are saved by Christ there is no ifs or buts.. It is not dependent on what we do but on what He did..

So you believe in universal salvation?

 

[MamaZ]

So you believe in universal salvation?

I believe in Being born again not of the will of man but of the will of God.. For not everyone that proclaims to be Christian is born again. So once you are born into HIs family you have this new Nature.. It just comes freely and one does not have to work to produce this new nature.. For once we are born of God we are His Children. By adoption we cry out abba Father.. Not by proving ourselves to be Holy but by Christ in us the only hope to Glory.

 

[chestertonrules]

I believe in Being born again not of the will of man but of the will of God.. For not everyone that proclaims to be Christian is born again. So once you are born into HIs family you have this new Nature.. It just comes freely and one does not have to work to produce this new nature.. For once we are born of God we are His Children. By adoption we cry out abba Father.. Not by proving ourselves to be Holy but by Christ in us the only hope to Glory.

Are you claiming that you don't sin any more?

 

[MamaZ]

Nope claiming I have a new nature.. Born of the Spirit of Christ.. Where it Christ in me the hope of Glory.. I am not a slave to sin.. But yes I do sin.. Praise God that all I have to do is go to God and confess this sin and not only does He forgive me but He cleanses me from all unrightousness..

 

[chestertonrules]

Nope claiming I have a new nature.. Born of the Spirit of Christ.. Where it Christ in me the hope of Glory.. I am not a slave to sin.. But yes I do sin.. Praise God that all I have to do is go to God and confess this sin and not only does He forgive me but He cleanses me from all unrightousness..

What if you don't ask forgiveness?

So is your new nature faulty? What if you continue to sin after asking forgiveness?

Whose fault is it when you sin if you are a new creature in Christ?

 

[MamaZ]

Born again Christians crucify thier flesh and all of its lust. We have that power in us because Christ lives in us.. If I do not confess my sin unto the Lord Christs blood is still my justifacation.. And with my new nature I do not follow after the lusts of the flesh but still have the warring in myself for death has not yet been swallowed up in victory and I am to deal with my old sinful flesh on a minute to minitue basis by putting off the old and putting on the new..

 

[chestertonrules]

Born again Christians crucify thier flesh and all of its lust. We have that power in us because Christ lives in us.. If I do not confess my sin unto the Lord Christs blood is still my justifacation.. And with my new nature I do not follow after the lusts of the flesh but still have the warring in myself for death has not yet been swallowed up in victory and I am to deal with my old sinful flesh on a minute to minitue basis by putting off the old and putting on the new..

So if you continue to sin will your faith stay alive?

If your faith is dead, are you saved?

How do you maintain your faith?

 

[MamaZ]

So if you continue to sin will your faith stay alive?

why would one that is born of God continue in sin? For we are more than conquerors through Christ. I have the will and desire of my Father in my heart by the Holy Spirit that dwells within me. One must examine himself to see if indeed he is of the faith.. For faith comes by hearing and hearing of the word of God. I grow more in love with Jesus every day because He loved me first.. Do you? Or is your days filled with trying to be good enough so that Christ just might save you?

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

Without being created in his image we would be without faith. Faith is the substance of Himself given to man that man might be a worshipper of Him who created him. Faith is no special "anything" from God.

I agree... faith is just belief in something based on prior knowledge. The issue isn't faith itself, it is what the faith is being place in. You can have faith in a seed that you plant, that it will grow into a tree. That doesn't make you righteous, but you still have faith. The issue isn't faith itself, it is the object of that faith. I believe yashualover is arguing that an unsaved person cannot place faith in Christ without first being given the grace to do so. To support his idea, if an unregenerate man were able to ultimately self-determine himself to have faith in Christ's death and resurrection and the saving power that lies within, then he has therefore committed a totally independent, meritorious act which is praiseworthy, and ultimately, boast-worthy. He can say "I did it! Look at me!" I don't think you can marry that idea with Scripture, for it clearly states:

Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

So your salvation is not a result of works -> so that no one can boast. This means a "work" is anything that you can boast about, correct? And if you can boast about the fact the you came to faith in Christ as a free, ultimately self-determined, volitional, willful act, then you have the right to boast. Therefore it can't possibly be the way you are proposing.

You Calvinists need to learn that and stop making excuses for your weakness in Christ; waiting around for God to grant you what He has already provided.

This is pathetic. You claim the we are all misrepresenting you, and you are the one stating that we are "waiting around", the classic Arminian claim which shows your ignorance in understanding Calvinism.

Grow up. We are discussing ideas, not personalities. Just because someone makes a personal comment about you doesn't mean you have to snap back at them. You claim to know theology and scriptural teaching, yet it is of no value if you never apply it.

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

why would one that is born of God continue in sin? For we are more than conquerors through Christ. I have the will and desire of my Father in my heart by the Holy Spirit that dwells within me. One must examine himself to see if indeed he is of the faith.. For faith comes by hearing and hearing of the word of God. I grow more in love with Jesus every day because He loved me first.. Do you? Or is your days filled with trying to be good enough so that Christ just might save you?

Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
Col 2:14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Thus,

Rom 8:33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect?

 

[chestertonrules]

why would one that is born of God continue in sin? For we are more than conquerors through Christ. I have the will and desire of my Father in my heart by the Holy Spirit that dwells within me. One must examine himself to see if indeed he is of the faith.. For faith comes by hearing and hearing of the word of God. I grow more in love with Jesus every day because He loved me first.. Do you? Or is your days filled with trying to be good enough so that Christ just might save you?

You just told me that you continue in sin.

Jesus gave us very specific instructions as to what he expected of his followers.

Why would you want to ignore these instructions?

 

[Ormly]

I agree... faith is just belief in something based on prior knowledge. The issue isn't faith itself, it is what the faith is being place in. You can have faith in a seed that you plant, that it will grow into a tree. That doesn't make you righteous, but you still have faith. The issue isn't faith itself, it is the object of that faith. I believe yashualover is arguing that an unsaved person cannot place faith in Christ without first being given the grace to do so. To support his idea, if an unregenerate man were able to ultimately self-determine himself to have faith in Christ's death and resurrection and the saving power that lies within, then he has therefore committed a totally independent, meritorious act which is praiseworthy, and ultimately, boast-worthy. He can say "I did it! Look at me!" I don't think you can marry that idea with Scripture, for it clearly states:

The ability to believe is something you say unregenerate man can't have. Yet he is a worshipper. He places his faith, as you point out, in something or someone. He the abilityy to do that. If you are a good preacher he just might believe what you have to say about Christ and place his place in it.

"The man who wins souls is wise". That places a certain responsibilty on you, doesn't it?

Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

So your salvation is not a result of works -> so that no one can boast. This means a "work" is anything that you can boast about, correct? And if you can boast about the fact the you came to faith in Christ as a free, ultimately self-determined, volitional, willful act, then you have the right to boast. Therefore it can't possibly be the way you are proposing.

Never argued that is was. Again your reading of my posts needs to be iimproved. In this, time doesn't help when only understanding and excepting truth that goes against your grain, will..

This is pathetic. You claim the we are all misrepresenting you, and you are the one stating that we are "waiting around", the classic Arminian claim which shows your ignorance in understanding Calvinism.

No. It reveals what I have observed about Calvinism. i.e., get saved and hang on til heaven. Its called the 'whiteknuckle club". You have repeatedly mis-represented my views.

Grow up. We are discussing ideas, not personalities. Just because someone makes a personal comment about you doesn't mean you have to snap back at them. You claim to know theology and scriptural teaching, yet it is of no value if you never apply it.

And to you, that you should make personal comments about me, especially when you continue to mis-read me.