Poll - Once Saved Always Saved

[Ormly]

Wow, no need to get testy. I thought I answered you fair and square. I was not trying to "misconstrue." I still don't get what your point is, so if you ask the question clearer then I will try to answer it as best I can.

Please, no need to get upset...

I am not asking you to wonder what my point is. I have been down this road before with folk as yourself who have twisted my words as you have. Some are still at it, as we speak. You now ask for more clarity to a simple question you can't answer without implicating yourself in willful ignorance.
Here it is again sincerely asking:

Question: Could not and did not men find favor with God without regeneration? What was it God found favor with from man?

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

I am not asking you to wonder what my point is. I have been down this road before with folk as yourself who have twisted my words as you have. Some are still at it, as we speak. You now ask for more clarity to a simple question you can't answer without implicating yourself in willful ignorance.
Here it is again sincerely asking:

Question: Could not and did not men find favor with God without regeneration? What was it God found favor with from man?

Once again, I repeat: I was not being willfully ignorant, I was not answering the question purposely in a way to avoid what you meant. You're assuming. Is it so possible that I misunderstood the question? You don't need to get all upset, it is kind of immature. I also resent the idea that I "twisted your words". You are once again assuming that I knew full well what you were asking, and decided to answer it in a different way, because apparently I have no answer to your real question. That is plain assumption, and frankly, it is quite rude.

Your questions aren't defined. I don't know what you mean by "favor". I know what I think it means, but I don't know what you think it means. So I answer this in caution.

Here you go, I won't say anything other than a simple yes or no answer.

Could not and did not men find favor with God without regeneration?

No.

What was it God found favor with from man?

Again, not defined. But, I will say this: God had no "favor" of any man.

Now go ahead and "twist my words".

 

[MamaZ]

Question: Could not and did not men find favor with God without regeneration? What was it God found favor with from man?

those of the circumcised.

 

[Ormly]

Once again, I repeat: I was not being willfully ignorant, I was not answering the question purposely in a way to avoid what you meant. You're assuming. Is it so possible that I misunderstood the question? .

No. You understood it enough to twist the words to make say what I wasn't asking.

You don't need to get all upset, it is kind of immature. I also resent the idea that I "twisted your words".

You did and that is why I am angry.

You are once again assuming that I knew full well what you were asking, and decided to answer it in a different way, because apparently I have no answer to your real question. That is plain assumption, and frankly, it is quite rude

My real question was an easy question. Did men ever find favor with God before they were born again?

Your questions aren't defined. I don't know what you mean by "favor". I know what I think it means, but I don't know what you think it means. So I answer this in caution.

Favor in anyones dictionary means, approval, bless worthly.

Here you go, I won't say anything other than a simple yes or no answer.

Could not and did not men find favor with God without regeneration?

No.

Thank you. That is all I was looking for as an answer. Apparently you don't believe God ever blessed men before regeneration. No one was blessed of God before the cross and the new birth in Christ. There was nothing men ever did before to bring about God's approval/favor that brought God's blessing.

'nough said.

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

No. You understood it enough to twist the words to make say what I wasn't asking.



You did and that is why I am angry.



My real question was an easy question. Did men ever find favor with God before they were born again?



Favor in anyones dictionary means, approval, bless worthly.



Thank you. That is all I was looking for as an answer. Apparently you don't believe God ever blessed men before regeneration. No one was blessed of God before the cross and the new birth in Christ. There was nothing men ever did before to bring about God's approval/favor that brought God's blessing.

'nough said.

Ah, but you are wrong. I am a dispensationalist, and thus, I believe all men are technically not saved by faith in Christ. Each dispensation, or "economy" has its own circumstances that must be fulfilled in order that one be saved during it. One is always saved by faith, but the object of that faith changes as per the dispensation. And thus, one who lived before Christ's death was regenerated in the same way that we are today, before they were justified as righteous, before they "found favor with God".

Now, should I get all mad at you? You said that I believe this:

"No one was blessed of God before the cross and the new birth in Christ."

And yet I never said that, and I never said anything to infer that. Yet, you twisted my words and made me say something I never said. You figured that as being the logical conclusion to the answer that I gave you, and thus assumed that's where it leads me. Well, you're wrong. Now please stop being such a jerk. This is called "Christian forums", where we discuss theology and who God is, and we are (for the most part) all children of God. There is no need to become angry at someone and get all bent out of shape when they say something to you. I didn't mean any harm and I didn't mean to dodge your question.

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

those of the circumcised.

Wrong...


Rom 2:25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
Rom 2:26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
Rom 2:27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter {of the Law} and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Does not verse 29 have the possibility of inferring that all of those who are Jews inwardly are the ones who are truly saved (who were regenerated) and those who are only outwardly are not saved?

If this is the case, then none of these men (those who are physically circumcised) found favor with God before regeneration. Likewise, those who are inwardly Jews are saved, and thus they have the circumcision of the heart, and have been regenerated. There favor came after their regeneration, after they became inwardly circumcised, inwardly a true Jew.

No one can find favor with God before regeneration.

 

[MamaZ]

What do you mean by favor? For Gods Grace is poured out upon on men. He has it rain on the wicked as much as His Children..Grace is unmerited favor.. Those of the OC were Gods Children before Christ. Therefore having a Covenant with God.

 

[Ormly]

Ah, but you are wrong. I am a dispensationalist, and thus, I believe all men are technically not saved by faith in Christ. Each dispensation, or "economy" has its own circumstances that must be fulfilled in order that one be saved during it. One is always saved by faith, but the object of that faith changes as per the dispensation. And thus, one who lived before Christ's death was regenerated in the same way that we are today, before they were justified as righteous, before they "found favor with God".

Now, should I get all mad at you? You said that I believe this:

"No one was blessed of God before the cross and the new birth in Christ."

And yet I never said that, and I never said anything to infer that. Yet, you twisted my words and made me say something I never said. You figured that as being the logical conclusion to the answer that I gave you, and thus assumed that's where it leads me. Well, you're wrong. Now please stop being such a jerk. This is called "Christian forums", where we discuss theology and who God is, and we are (for the most part) all children of God. There is no need to become angry at someone and get all bent out of shape when they say something to you. I didn't mean any harm and I didn't mean to dodge your question.

You have dodged it, evaded it and twisted it.

If you can't see that I feel sorry for you.

You have persuaded me to believe it is not willful ignorance I am up against but ignorance mixed with irrationality. I believe Calvinism fosters it. Someone wrote they believed Calvinism was a dangerous doctrine. I agree with them. I believe it is a snare, a very strong snare thats robs sincere folk of the ultimate intention of God.

 

[yashualover]

Grace from God? No problem. It is His gift to us. But Faith isn't.

Without His Grace we would not have the faith to believe, therefore faith is a gift.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

amen... agrees with eph 2:8

 

[Ormly]

Without His Grace we would not have the faith to believe, therefore faith is a gift.

Without being created in his image we would be without faith. Faith is the substance of Himself given to man that man might be a worshipper of Him who created him. Faith is no special "anything" from God.

As Chambers puts it: "Grace is the overflow of the very Nature of God" and since man is a worshipper, leaving man without excuse when exercising his faith in believing in God.. Without faith in God is it impossible to please Him; it is impossible for God to respond to man with Himself.

You Calvinists need to learn that and stop making excuses for your weakness in Christ; waiting around for God to grant you what He has already provided.

 

[Ben johnson]

Quoted by Yashualover:
Without His Grace we would not have the faith to believe, therefore faith is a gift.​

The problem with this is that it assumes faith is an "unasked gift". "Faith" is not the gift; faith is receiving the gift.

"For to you it has been granted for Chris's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake." Philip2:29

Many think that "granted", means "sovereign distribution to a FEW". But the "granting" here, reflects "that all who see Jesus AND BELIEVE, may be saved".

"Granting that we may believe (and suffer)", is God's offer.
"Believing" is our receiving of His graceful offer.

In no way is saving-faith ever a sovereign decree.

As A.T.Robertson says on Eph2:8, "Grace is God's part, faith is ours."

Look at how thoroughly just Rom5:17-18 overturns "gifted-faith"; justification came to all men, in exactly the same measure as came condemnation --- "SO THEN", "EVEN SO". But clearly asserted in verse 17, "those who receive the abundance of grace and who receive the gift of righteousness shall reign (shall BE justified)".

Grace is God's gift.
Receiving His gift is our choice.
Belief is not merit; it is conviction of utter worthlessness, and recognition of our need for HIS righteousness.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

what is satan blinding the unsaved with.... the grace of God or the faith from God?

Gal 5:22-23 fruit of the spirit .... Faith
What is grace.... undeserved favor romans 4:2-5

 

[Ormly]

what is satan blinding the unsaved with.... the grace of God or the faith from God?

Gal 5:22-23 fruit of the spirit .... Faith
What is grace.... undeserved favor romans 4:2-5

. . . . . . . another unlearned question

 

[A Brother In Christ]

. . . . . . . another unlearned question

ALL KNOWING ORMLY ..... GIVE ME THE ANSWERS>>>

 

[MamaZ]

why has my questions not been answered by you Ormly? What are those who are with the Lord clothed with? And, to what were these witnesses witnessing? If you have alread answered these them forgive me and please direct me to your answers..

 

[Ormly]

ALL KNOWING ORMLY ..... GIVE ME THE ANSWERS>>>

I can give answers to stupid questions. I don't know how.

Perhaps it would better for you to put whatever it is you wish to convey into the form of a statement

 

[Ormly]

ALL KNOWING ORMLY ..... GIVE ME THE ANSWERS>>>

I can give answers to stupid questions. I don't know how.

Perhaps it would better for you to put whatever it is you wish to convey into the form of a statement and let it be argued out.

 

[Ormly]

why has my questions not been answered by you Ormly? What are those who are with the Lord clothed with? And, to what were these witnesses witnessing? If you have alread answered these them forgive me and please direct me to your answers..

Why haven't mine been answered by you? . . .sincerely, that is?

 

[yashualover]

Without being created in his image we would be without faith. Faith is the substance of Himself given to man that man might be a worshipper of Him who created him. Faith is no special "anything" from God.

As Chambers puts it: "Grace is the overflow of the very Nature of God" and since man is a worshipper, leaving man without excuse when exercising his faith in believing in God.. Without faith in God is it impossible to please Him; it is impossible for God to respond to man with Himself.

You Calvinists need to learn that and stop making excuses for your weakness in Christ; waiting around for God to grant you what He has already provided.

Joh 3:3 Jesus replied to him, "Truly, truly I tell you, unless a person is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Do you think a person can make himself born again? Or is it a supernatural work of God?

1Co 2:14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.

The natural man does not recieve the things of God, do you think a natural man can all of a sudden make himself recieve the things of God?

Think man, think.