What is your theory, belief around Foreknowledge?

[A New Dawn]

Eve lusted after the fruit. You can lust after a car.
Yes, eatting the fruit was the one and only way they could sin, full knowledge of good and evil provides ton of ways to sin without God making a list.
The Bible does not call it a "Fall". When my children first sinned, I did not think: "They fell from grace", but they transitioned into a maturer part of their life.
I do not think babies need to be "saved", but are in a safe condition prior to their sinning.

You are adding modern adaptations to Biblical words/concepts. One shouldn’t do that when words had specific meanings 2000 years ago.

Good for you, I guess, that you ignore Biblical texts that reference specific Christian beliefs, but it kind of makes it hard for you to talk to greater Christian circles about what the Bible clearly teaches. So, I guess, good luck with that. I am not going to go round and round with someone that clearly states they are ignoring clear biblical teaching.

 

[HARK!]

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[BelieveItOarKnot]

they believed in Free Will

Start with a false claim and end up going in unsound directions

Not a single one of the prophets, apostles or Jesus believed in "freewill."

Not a single one of the prophets or apostles would have "excluded" God's Working Will within all of creation.

Not a single one of the prophets or apostles would have denied the working of evil unseen principalities in this present world.

In light of the fact of God's Active Working Living Word/Will, there is the adverse will of the adversary, the tempter and or his own also working within mankind i.e. everyone.

IF the above is true, there is no such thing as "freewill" other than a working of devils seeking to eliminate God's Active Will in creation and to hide their working wills.

In short, freewill requires a Godless position in order to function apart from God and the adversaries and claim it self FREE from either. The moment a freewiller concedes the other wills work in mankind, then freewill is just petty nonsense

 

[SuperCow]

Foreknowledge (prognosis) is used only of divine foreknowledge in the NT, which is God knowing in advance what he is going to do. . .
because he has decreed that he shall do so.

It's clearly in the OT as well. For Abraham's covenant to come true, it had to have the foreknowledge of actions of people who weren't born yet (but presumably have free will). As part of that you have Pharaoh's dreams interpreted by Joseph, and Moses as an intermediary fulfilling the Abrahamic covenant with freedom of Israel via the 10 plagues and the destruction of that Egyptian dynasty (the details of which are obviously up for interpretation, so readers of this post should not digress and get off topic).

Later in the Bible, you have Nebuchadnezzar's dreams interpreted by Daniel. Then you have all the other major and minor prophets.

Some events that are often called prophecies are obviously not (for example, Noah's warning of a flood is just God telling him his intentions, and it can be argued that it is not a real prophecy as it does not require buy-in from any random events or free will)

 

[A New Dawn]

It's clearly in the OT as well. For Abraham's covenant to come true, it had to have the foreknowledge of actions of people who weren't born yet (but presumably have free will). As part of that you have Pharaoh's dreams interpreted by Joseph, and Moses as an intermediary fulfilling the Abrahamic covenant with freedom of Israel via the 10 plagues and the destruction of that Egyptian dynasty (the details of which are obviously up for interpretation, so readers of this post should not digress and get off topic).

Later in the Bible, you have Nebuchadnezzar's dreams interpreted by Daniel. Then you have all the other major and minor prophets.

Some events that are often called prophecies are obviously not (for example, Noah's warning of a flood is just God telling him his intentions, and it can be argued that it is not a real prophecy as it does not require buy-in from any random events or free will)

As opinions go, that is yours.

 

[SuperCow]

And PREDESTINATION is found in Eph 1:4-5 and in Rom 8:29 -30

And FOREKNOWLEDGE is found 1 Peter 1:2 and in Rom 8:29

Freewill is only FOUND once in. Gen 2:16-17 other wise there is no FREE. WILL. , PERIOD. !!
dan p

Free will is clearly found on the part of Nineveh in the book of Jonah. (Maybe not for Jonah himself though) There's all sorts of places where God gives choices to people and warned of the good or bad consequences of their decisions. If there is no free will, then the choice is an illusion, and much of the concept of the Bible is a lie.

If you take free will away from Adam & Eve, then you are left with a much more sadistic creator and a populace that is not responsible for their actions, because God knows what they will do before they are born.

 

[SuperCow]

When God speaks of desiring that all would come to him and not wishing that any should die, those are scriptures showing the heart of God. That is a different thing from the plan of salvation that he put in place and elucidated in John 6.

The choices we make are not free as was Adam’s choice in the Garden of Eden because we have a fallen nature (thanks to Adam’s use of his free-will choice) and can only make choices from that fallen nature until the time comes when we are redeemed (and thus have a redeemed nature). Once we are redeemed and have the gift of the Holy Spirit to guide us, we can make free-will choices. While we are slaves to sin, we cannot make free-will choices. We can make choices, but they are not free-will. There are too many scriptures where this is made clear. Prior to being redeemed, men have evil thoughts all the time, we require a Savior.

There are so many implied contradictions in this paragraph that I'm struggling with how to respond. Adam had free will but lost it. We do not have free will until we are redeemed, because we are currently slaves to sin. You are missing the point. Even a slave has a choice. Even if it's only to comply or be beaten or killed, I can still choose to not comply and be killed. We have the choice to seek or not seek redemption. That is free will, even if my inherited weakness causes me to fail much of the time.

 

[A New Dawn]

There are so many implied contradictions in this paragraph that I'm struggling with how to respond. Adam had free will but lost it. We do not have free will until we are redeemed, because we are currently slaves to sin. You are missing the point. Even a slave has a choice. Even if it's only to comply or be beaten or killed, I can still choose to not comply and be killed. We have the choice to seek or not seek redemption. That is free will, even if my inherited weakness causes me to fail much of the time.

It might be a choice, but it is not a free-will choice. Unless you have been redeemed, you are only making a choice out of your fallen nature. A slave cannot choose to be free. They might have the choice to comply or be killed, but they can’t choose to be free. The options are limited to your nature.

 

[Clare73]

It's clearly in the OT as well.

Not the Greek word prognosis.

For Abraham's covenant to come true, it had to have the foreknowledge of actions of people who weren't born yet (but presumably have free will). As part of that you have Pharaoh's dreams interpreted by Joseph, and Moses as an intermediary fulfilling the Abrahamic covenant with freedom of Israel via the 10 plagues and the destruction of that Egyptian dynasty (the details of which are obviously up for interpretation, so readers of this post should not digress and get off topic).

Later in the Bible, you have Nebuchadnezzar's dreams interpreted by Daniel. Then you have all the other major and minor prophets.

Some events that are often called prophecies are obviously not (for example, Noah's warning of a flood is just God telling him his intentions, and it can be argued that it is not a real prophecy as it does not require buy-in from any random events or free will)

 

[SuperCow]

It might be a choice, but it is not a free-will choice. Unless you have been redeemed, you are only making a choice out of your fallen nature. A slave cannot choose to be free. They might have the choice to comply or be killed, but they can’t choose to be free. The options are limited to your nature.

So do you have a choice to do what is needed to be redeemed, or do I only have the choice that God has condemned me to choose? In other words, maybe it's not in God's plans to see me saved, so I am created in such a way as to reject him.

 

[bling]

It might be a choice, but it is not a free-will choice. Unless you have been redeemed, you are only making a choice out of your fallen nature. A slave cannot choose to be free. They might have the choice to comply or be killed, but they can’t choose to be free. The options are limited to your nature.

Just because all your choices are not free does not mean you do not have limited free will. Not being able to fly around the room does not mean I do not have free will to do other things.

 

[A New Dawn]

Just because all your choices are not free does not mean you do not have limited free will. Not being able to fly around the room does not mean I do not have free will to do other things.

I STATED you can make choices, they just are not free-will choices because your nature is not free (free meaning redeemed in this discussion).

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

If you take free will away from Adam & Eve, then you are left with a much more sadistic creator and a populace that is not responsible for their actions, because God knows what they will do before they are born.

You merely use (nonexisting) freewill to blame and accuse Adam and Eve.

Where is your judgment of this fact happening to them both? Mark 4:15

Why is the perp missing from your position?

We know from scripture that all have sin, Romans 3:9, and that sin is of the devil, 1 John 3:8

WHO then is the perp? Adam and Eve? Adam was God's son. When anyone blames Adam they also point directly to Adam's Father. Did God bear a faulty child? Will God burn His child alive forever or eternally annhilate that child? I think NOT.

OR might it just be fair to say that we are all engaged in the judgments of the TEMPTER and his unseen minions?

Eph. 6:11-12

 

[bling]

I STATED you can make choices, they just are not free-will choices because your nature is not free (free meaning redeemed in this discussion).

You feel Adam and Eve made a free will choice to sin, so obviously you can have free will and sin. If you do not have free will to not sin, then God is at fault for your sinning, since He did not provide you with free will.

 

[A New Dawn]

You feel Adam and Eve made a free will choice to sin, so obviously you can have free will and sin. If you do not have free will to not sin, then God is at fault for your sinning, since He did not provide you with free will.

Adam and Eve were free. They walked and talked with God in glory. WE are fallen. What part of that is confusing?

And man CHOSE to sin, rebelling against God. That is not Gods fault no matter how much you try to blame Him.

 

[bling]

Adam and Eve were free. They walked and talked with God in glory. WE are fallen. What part of that is confusing?

And man CHOSE to sin, rebelling against God. That is not Gods fault no matter how much you try to blame Him.

You are the one blaming God, by saying: "God took man's free will away" which the Bible does not say.
God does not blame me for what Adam and Eve did.
I am blamed and guilty for the free will sins I do, just like Adam and Eve were blamed for the free will sins they did.
Do you think the only thing which kept you from going sin free was your, lack of free will? For that would make you immensely better than Adam and Eve who had free will and only one way to sin, since you now have a ton of ways to sin.

 

[A New Dawn]

You are the one blaming God, by saying: "God took man's free will away" which the Bible does not say.
God does not blame me for what Adam and Eve did.
I am blamed and guilty for the free will sins I do, just like Adam and Eve were blamed for the free will sins they did.
Do you think the only thing which kept you from going sin free was your, lack of free will? For that would make you immensely better than Adam and Eve who had free will and only one way to sin, since you now have a ton of ways to sin.

Man took away man’s free-will by rebelling against God.

God laid it all out in Genesis 3, what HE expected of man for man to continue living in glory with Him. HE told them there would be consequences for them if they broke His commandment, DO NOT EAT OF THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD OR EVIL FOR IN THE DAY THAT YOU DO, YOU SHALL SURELY DIE, and they chose to break it anyway. What is a just and holy God to do when man violates the commandment of God? God chose to have mercy on them and did not let them die, but kicked them out of glory with Him. They died spiritually. That is called the fall. No longer was Adam walking in glory, he had all that stripped away as punishment for breaking God’s commandment. SO STOP BLAMING IT ON GOD!