Poll - Once Saved Always Saved

Do you believe in the doctrine of Once Saved, Always Saved?

  • No, I don't believe in the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved.

  • Yes, I do believe in the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved.


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Ben johnson

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Quoted by ABIC:
definition of an overcomer... 1 jn 5:4-5
Wait --- when you cited that, did you know that "he WHO believes is the one who overcomes the world"?

Hmmmm; vindicates me for all I've said... :)
Quote:
then why Gal 5:25 Since you are in the Spirit ... walk in the Spirit why did they need to be told?
Good question --- maybe, it has something to do with the whole point of the letter. That is, "Walk in grace, do not be subject again to slavery of Law; you who are seeking to be justified by Law are fallen from grace and severed from Christ".
Quote:
why is there 1 jn 3:2-3 stating that we are not perfect yet... we can sin
Please read the rest of chapter 3. Specifically, verse 4-10. Those who practice sin, are not saved; those who practice righteousness are righteous as He is righteous.

Do you still assert that "we can walk in sin but still be saved"? (See 1Jn1:6-7.)
Quote:
faith is having a hope in a promise from God... heb 11:1 but abraham after he believed gen 15:6 doubted God in gen 15:8 ... yet God still kept his promise
Did Abraham continue in doubt, rather than faith? No.
Quote:
Adam and eve sinned ... they ran away from God YET God made clothing and brought them to Adam and Eve
In 2Cor11:3, Paul worries that WE can be deceived away from Christ, just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's craftiness.

What does that verse mean to you?
 
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Blood

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Quoted by Blood:
What you say here is illogical. Regeneration is the active work of the holy ghost in us. We are not the holy ghost so how can we have anything to do with abiding in something that we were unable to do ourselves? which he had to do for us?
Hi, "Blood". Regeneration is the work of the Holy Ghost in us. But what does "in us", mean?
When god breathed his spirit into adam and adam became a living soul were was the spirit? in him, thats what "in us" means.

That is were the holy ghost is, in us in our spirit. The holy ghost is not seperate from christ they are one as god is one, inside us joined to our spirit so that we are all one, not two, but one.

you said previously this "In essence, we abide in regeneration, as we abide in Christ."

You have seperated the holy ghost from the spirit of christ when they are the same thing (including the father) they all indwell us as one and we become one with them, not because we abide in them but because they abide in us.

Their abiding is their choice to make not ours, and having made their choice it becomes our choice also as we become sycronised with them as we become one with them. Their desire and will to abide becomes our desire and will to abide because we are now one with them in spirit forever.

Does the Spirit indwell an UNBELIEVER? Never.
Thats why its necessary for the holy ghost to regenerate us first. The holy ghost can not indwell a unbeliever, and what believer was not an unbeliever first.
 
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Ben johnson

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Quoted by Blood:
When God breathed hHs spirit into adam and adam became a living soul were was the spirit? in him, thats what "in us" means.
Men have a spirit; and it's not naturally the Holy Spirit. He indwells a man, by the man's faith.
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That is were the Holy Ghost is, in us in our spirit. The Holy Ghost is not separate from cCrist they are one as God is one, inside us joined to our spirit so that we are all one, not two, but one.
The Spirit is a separate person, but you're right, part of one Being.
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you said previously this "In essence, we abide in regeneration, as we abide in Christ."

You have separated the Holy Ghost from the Spirit of Christ when they are the same thing (including the Father) they all indwell us as one and we become one with them, not because we abide in them but because they abide in us.
Sorry, it says "abide in Him". See 1Jn2:26-28 --- abiding in Him is fully optional. That is, continue to abide.
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Their abiding is their choice to make not ours, and having made their choice it becomes our choice also as we become sycronised with them as we become one with them. Their desire and will to abide becomes our desire and will to abide because we are now one with them in spirit forever.
What does 2Jn1:7-9 mean to you? How do you read Heb3:6-14? What do you think when you read Heb4:11?
Quoted by Ben:
Does the Spirit indwell an UNBELIEVER? Never.
Quoted by Blood:
Thats why its necessary for the Holy Ghost to regenerate us first. The Holy Ghost can not indwell a unbeliever, and what believer was not an unbeliever first.
Please show me anywhere in Scripture where "regeneration" preceeds "faith". The only place "regeneration" appears, is in Titus3:5-6; and God regenerates us, by the Holy Spirit, who WAS POURED through Jesus-our-Savior.

This places "Jesus-Our-Savior" first.
Then the Spirit is "poured".
Then regeneration is by the POURED (on us) Spirit.

Nowhere is any man regenerated before believing. This is the biggest error of Reformed Theology; we believe in Jesus, receive Him, and receive the Spirit --- AND the Spirit's regeneration.
 
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Ben johnson

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Quoted by Beloved57:
ben, you dont understand scriptures man..
THen help me understand, "Beloved57". Explain Ezk18 to me. How can a RIGHTEOUS man, turn and do evil? How can an evil man choose to be righteous?

If a righteous man can become evil, you're caught trying to explain how he could BE righteous, but TURN. You'll hafta try to assert "oh he wasn't REALLY righteous, he only went BACK to the evil that was there all ALONG".

And that will be doing what I've charged RT with doing all along: imposing "NOT REALLY", upon Scripture.
 
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A Brother In Christ

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Quoted by ABIC:
definition of an overcomer... 1 jn 5:4-5
Wait --- when you cited that, did you know that "he WHO believes is the one who overcomes the world"?

Hmmmm; vindicates me for all I've said... :)
Quote:
then why Gal 5:25 Since you are in the Spirit ... walk in the Spirit why did they need to be told?
Good question --- maybe, it has something to do with the whole point of the letter. That is, "Walk in grace, do not be subject again to slavery of Law; you who are seeking to be justified by Law are fallen from grace and severed from Christ".
Quote:
why is there 1 jn 3:2-3 stating that we are not perfect yet... we can sin
Please read the rest of chapter 3. Specifically, verse 4-10. Those who practice sin, are not saved; those who practice righteousness are righteous as He is righteous.
Do you still assert that "we can walk in sin but still be saved"? (See 1Jn1:6-7.)
1 jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

romans 13:11 And that knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed
already saved not living it connects to eph 5:7-14

when will you deal with this verse!

What is a righteous acts according to scripture...

belief in what Christ did when we do this the Holy Spirit put us into Christ and counting His righteousness as ours! ... thus we are ungodly and righteous... romans 4:5
Quote:
faith is having a hope in a promise from God... heb 11:1 but abraham after he believed gen 15:6 doubted God in gen 15:8 ... yet God still kept his promise
Did Abraham continue in doubt, rather than faith? No.

Did He not laugh in doubt that Sara was going to have a baby in gen 17:17,19 as well as sara.. gen 18:12 yet God counted this righteousness in gen 15:6

Finnally in gen 22:10 this was a mature belief .. Heb 11:17-19
Quote:
Adam and eve sinned ... they ran away from God YET God made clothing and brought them to Adam and Eve
In 2Cor11:3, Paul worries that WE can be deceived away from Christ, just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's craftiness.

What does that verse mean to you?

This means some people listen to the wrong people.... and do not compare scripture

Oh yeh Eve did not use scripture because it was done by word of mouth
 
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Rick Otto

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Please show me anywhere in Scripture where "regeneration" preceeds "faith". The only place "regeneration" appears, is in Titus3:5-6; and God regenerates us, by the Holy Spirit, who WAS POURED through Jesus-our-Savior.
Joh 3:3 - Show Context Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
 
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Blood

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Sorry, it says "abide in Him". See 1Jn2:26-28 --- abiding in Him is fully optional. That is, continue to abide.
I have been reading through some of your posts and they reveal that you have a very poor grasp of scripture.

When we are regenerated and indwelt by the holy ghost we are indwelt by all of the persons of the trinity on account of them (father son holy ghost) being one. When they inhabit us through regeneration they are then (at that moment) abiding in us. As they are abiding in us we are abiding in them. We become syncronized with them at the foundational level of the spirit. We become one with them (father son holy ghost) and they become one with us. We also become syncronized with them in our person. This doesn't destroy our personhood or theirs. Their abiding in us is a sharing of their life with us, their inate eternal life is now communicated to us and becomes ours because of intimate union between gods spirit and our spirit. We are joined as one with gods spirit and become one in spirit, just like man and wife is one flesh when they are intimately joined together in the marriage bed.

The word abiding means to stay in the same place and thats exactly what happens when god regenerates us. He stays in the same place, in us, in our spirit. Our abiding is exactly the same as his, we stay in the same place, in god, because he is staying in the same place as us, our spirit, which is in our body, which is now the temple of god. Its that simple.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. (1 john 2:26-28)

God assures us of his eternal oneness with us and our eternal oneness with him at the foundational level of intimate spirit union when the scripture says "and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him" that is unalterable, its just going to stay that way eternally because it is set in stone.

Gods spirit teaches us (has taught) that we will abide (stay in the same place) in him that we are currently experiencing. Eternal life joined to god by the spirit is eternal. Its that simple.

Please show me anywhere in Scripture where "regeneration" preceeds "faith".
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (john 3:3)

Nowhere is any man regenerated before believing
If a man is not regenerated than he can not believe savingly. You don't understand this thats why your understanding of scripture is very poor.

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. (math 11:27)
 
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Ben johnson

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Quoted by ABIC:
This means some people listen to the wrong people.... and do not compare scripture
That is correct --- some listen to the wrong people. Perfectly reflecting Col2:8. There are deceivers in the world; if we listen to deceivers (rather than grounding ourselves in the Word), we can become deceived.
Quote:
Oh yeh Eve did not use scripture because it was done by word of mouth
Yet, WE can be deceived by the devil just as EVE was.

No defense against that verse, is there?

:)
 
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Ben johnson

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Qoted by ABIC:
Yet we have scripture.... and some people have never met a gifted teacher of the scriptures
That's true. Though Rom10 says "Without a preacher HOW will they believe?" --- I think Rom2:14-16 asserts that those who were never TAUGHT "the Law" (and Jesus is now "the Law"), can still have Jesus in their hearts.

So I believe there will be Mormons, JW's, Moslems, Buddhists, and people from many other faiths in Heaven. Each can belong to Jesus inasmuch as he/she understands Him.
 
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Rick Otto

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Quoted by Beloved57:
ben, you dont understand scriptures man..
THen help me understand, "Beloved57". Explain Ezk18 to me. How can a RIGHTEOUS man, turn and do evil? How can an evil man choose to be righteous?

If a righteous man can become evil, you're caught trying to explain how he could BE righteous, but TURN. You'll hafta try to assert "oh he wasn't REALLY righteous, he only went BACK to the evil that was there all ALONG".

And that will be doing what I've charged RT with doing all along: imposing "NOT REALLY", upon Scripture.
It is not that we are imposing a "NOT REALLY" upon scripture, it is that you're not grasping in what sense that righteousness is real.
The "evil that was there all along" is an evil present in all mankind even after the righteousness of Christ is imputed. Therefore saints occaisionaly sin, but even that isn't the case of what Ezekial 18:24 is referring to. It is referring to those who turn from their own righteousness, not from the righteousness of Christ imputed:
24: But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. :cool:
 
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A Brother In Christ

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Qoted by ABIC:
Yet we have scripture.... and some people have never met a gifted teacher of the scriptures
That's true. Though Rom10 says "Without a preacher HOW will they believe?" --- I think Rom2:14-16 asserts that those who were never TAUGHT "the Law" (and Jesus is now "the Law"), can still have Jesus in their hearts.

So I believe there will be Mormons, JW's, Moslems, Buddhists, and people from many other faiths in Heaven. Each can belong to Jesus inasmuch as he/she understands Him.

as long as they are trusting God work for their salvation to save them and not their own
 
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