Please Explain How these Passages are Consistent with Calvinism

[Anto9us]

" Right now we are just 30 days from being thrown out of the building where we live. "

Mark, I don't mean to make light of your situation, but MANY of us are in that scenario -- it is called "RENT".

I pray for you and the brothers there that you won't be kicked out

 

[mark kennedy]

Being freed from our bondage to sin. We need a divine act to save us. Because cannot save ourselves. They think that Classical Calvinism does not demonstrate "love, charity,". And this is a misunderstanding & caricature of what we believe and why we believe it. They think people are born with the abilities to walk in righteousness & holiness. We lost that in Adam.

Even they believe that all are born in Adam's death. So why they do not understand us, is beyond me. They seem to me, they are borderline Gnostic. Thinking people can reach God through self effort. That we can ascend to God, instead of believing that God descends to us in Christ!

The way I had it explained to me is the Catholic concept is that the image of God is damaged as a result of sin, for Calvinists it's ruined. There's no real question that God must a perform a miracle to make us a new creature in Christ, remove the heart of stone and replace it with a heart of flesh. I was never sure how I felt about that one, guess I could have went either way. Then I encounter a discussion of predestination, which speaks to our self-will verses God providence in salvation. For the Catholics what we were predestined to is the likeness of Christ, which doesn't change. For the Calvinist is more of an emphasis on the converted. This ones kind of tricky but I think the Catholics have a pretty good handle it.

Paul tells us, "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son." (see Romans 8:28-30) and, 'He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ' (Ephesians 1:3-6). There's that word again, 'predestined'. What do you think is more likely, that God knew that all who would be saved would be conformed into the likeness of Christ or he wrote this big book with everyone's name in it?

I favor Calvinism for a lot of reasons, predestination isn't one of them.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Thursday]

Right. It's only those whom the Father gave to Christ as his disciples who could not be snatched away. Judas was in their company, but he did not have Faith in the Messiah.

That is pure conjecture on your part with scriptural basis. Here's a passage that clearly describes such an event:

2 Peter 2:20
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

 

[Thursday]

A text without a context is a pretext and the argument your making is called a strawman.

​

No strawman. You claimed the verse in question was not about salvation. It clearly IS about salvation.

Your filibuster doesn't change the truth.​

 

[Thursday]

Yet I showed you in Romans 3 that Paul continues his dialogue on all people not one, none righteous. It's important to not isolate your one verse to prove a predisposition. That is eisegesis.

Paul's point is that we can't be saved without grace. Upon this you and I agree. However, you deny Paul's other warnings that clearly state that we must persist in cooperating with God's grace and our salvation is conditional on our behavior.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

Romans 11
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

1 Cor 6
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral,nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God

 

[Thursday]

Correct. Now when someone walks away in your model, which of the things Paul lists in Romans 8 makes the person walk away?

1 Tim 1:19
holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith.

 

[Thursday]

Who are "the least of these?"

The poor and rejected.

 

[Thursday]

Now please provide the exegesis and what connects each of those verses under the same context.

Feel free to explain why they don't mean what they clearly state.

 

[mark kennedy]

No strawman. You claimed the verse in question was not about salvation. It clearly IS about salvation.

Your filibuster doesn't change the truth.​

It's about the need for salvation and you've been shown repeated expositions of that verse in it's proper context. Salvation is summed up in the introduction and is not discussed again until the all important transition starting with 'but now, the righteousness of God is revealed'. Paul is saying the Jew is no less a sinner then the Gentile, like I said, how you are missing this is a mystery to me.

Oh by the way, those are expositions of the book of Romans and Paul's timeless exposition of the gospel and justification by grace through faith. The first thing you are confronted with by the gospel is your sinful condition. If you skipped over that part your missing the whole point of the text.

 

[redleghunter]

That is pure conjecture on your part with scriptural basis. Here's a passage that clearly describes such an event:

2 Peter 2:20
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

What and who are the subject of 2 Peter 2?

 

[redleghunter]

Paul's point is that we can't be saved without grace. Upon this you and I agree. However, you deny Paul's other warnings that clearly state that we must persist in cooperating with God's grace and our salvation is conditional on our behavior.

Paul clearly makes comparisons on those who follow the true gospel and those who follow a false gospel or lie.

The very same comparisons Jesus makes in the parable of the soils.

 

[ladodgers6]

Nothing to see, just another Calvinist denying the teaching of Calvin.

If election is unconditional, then God does not repay a person for what they have done in the flesh.

The bible or Calvin, you choose.

Please explain what does Calvin mean by unconditional? Before I respond to your comments, I want to make sure I got it right, first.

 

[redleghunter]

1 Tim 1:19
holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith.

A great verse. Notice there is a rejection of the gospel.

No one posting here denies the warnings of apostasy.

Judas tagged along for free meals and attention for 3 years but was never convinced of the gospel taught and miracles performed by Christ. He killed himself confirming he did not think Christ "big enough" to forgive him. Peter denied our Lord but knew Christ would be merciful.

I believe the ultimate difference between the two was preservation. Not perseverance.

 

[redleghunter]

The poor and rejected.

It's an interesting discussion. Take a look at Matthew 10 where Christ sends out the disciples.

 

[mark kennedy]

What and who are the subject of 2 Peter 2?

He has a serious problem following the context:

For it were better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered unto them. It has happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog turning to his own vomit again, and the sow that had washed to wallowing in the mire. (2 Pet. 2:21,22)
​

They denied Christ, they were false teachers that were involved in all manner of gross immorality. Just as the children of Israel turned in their hearts back to Egypt and raised up idols the early church was being inundated with error from Jewish and Gentile influences alike. The message is very similar to the one in Jude.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I believe the ultimate difference between the two was preservation. Not perseverance.

Jesus says as much:

“Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat. 32But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”

 

[mark kennedy]

A great verse. Notice there is a rejection of the gospel.

No one posting here denies the warnings of apostasy.

Judas tagged along for free meals and attention for 3 years but was never convinced of the gospel taught and miracles performed by Christ. He killed himself confirming he did not think Christ "big enough" to forgive him. Peter denied our Lord but knew Christ would be merciful.

I believe the ultimate difference between the two was preservation. Not perseverance.

Jesus washed his feet and Judas got up and betrayed him to his enemies in fulfillment of Scripture.

 

[ladodgers6]

Paul's point is that we can't be saved without grace. Upon this you and I agree. However, you deny Paul's other warnings that clearly state that we must persist in cooperating with God's grace and our salvation is conditional on our behavior.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

Romans 11
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

1 Cor 6
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral,nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God

Yes Paul warns us about "Antinomianism". Because now being made alive in Christ; which is God doing, not ours. We now live to God.

In Galatians 6 Paul is speaking against those who think that they can sin, because they are not under the Law, but under Grace. These people do not understand the Gospel of Paul. The Gospel is not a license to sin. But we do not MAINTAIN our salvation through our works. We are saved through the person and works of Christ!

1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

In Christ is the only place we can build our piety toward God. Since we have died to sin, we can now live to God, not to attain or maintain our salvation. But because we are ALREADY saved in Christ who accomplished everything for us!

 

[Monk Brendan]

I just noticed your religious affiliation, Melkite Catholic, that's a pretty impressive ecclesiastical tradition. Apparently it goes all the way back to Antioch, where the mission to the Gentiles began in earnest.

That's right! It was at Antioch that they were first called Christian

 

[Monk Brendan]

Mark, I don't mean to make light of your situation, but MANY of us are in that scenario -- it is called "RENT".

No, it is not rent. Some people in the neighborhood don't like monks walking around, we are apt to lose our lease.