Please Explain How these Passages are Consistent with Calvinism

[Thursday]

Romans 2
6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

1 Peter 1:17
Since you call on a Father who judges each person's work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear.

 

[Albion]

Romans 2
6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

1 Peter 1:17
Since you call on a Father who judges each person's work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear.

Respond to all the verses that support Calvinism and we'll join with you in assessing the whole batch, the apparently pro and the apparently con as well.

 

[Thursday]

Respond to all the verses that support Calvinism and we'll join with you in assessing the whole batch, the apparently pro and the apparently con as well.

If a dogma is directly contradicted by multiple scriptures then it can't be considered true.

It appears you are conceding that these passages directly contradict Calvinism.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I think the whole concept of free will vs predestination runs deeper than anyone of us can fully understand.

 

[Albion]

If a dogma is directly contradicted by multiple scriptures then it can't be considered true.

It appears you are conceding that these passages directly contradict Calvinism.

As a matter of fact, I didn't even read them. I consider cherry-picking of scripture to be out of the question in any exploration of a Bible-based doctrinal matter. But I did offer to have us all, together, look at ALL the evidence, ALL the verses that bear upon the issue, one way or the other.

 

[SPF]

Romans 2
6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. The elect will be the ones who persist.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love. The elect will keep his commands.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. The elect will sow to please the Spirit

1 Peter 1:17
Since you call on a Father who judges each person's work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear. The elect will live out their time as foreigners in reverent fear.

That's how a Calvinist (in red, of course) would interpret those verses. Not too difficult.

 

[Thursday]

That's how a Calvinist (in red, of course) would interpret those verses. Not too difficult.

But that doesn't work, because it is ACCORDING to what they have done.

 

[RC1970]

As a matter of fact, I didn't even read them. I consider cherry-picking of scripture to be out of the question in any exploration of a Bible-based doctrinal matter. But I did offer to have us all, together, look at ALL the evidence, ALL the verses that bear upon the issue, one way or the other.

Exactly. This was part of the point I made in a different thread about non-Calvinists not having a sound understanding of biblical interpretation. The idea that the Scripture interprets Scripture, for example. Or, that the implicit is to be understood in light of the explicit, etcetera. It becomes a lot easier when we apply the proper techniques.

 

[Thursday]

Exactly. This was part of the point I made in a different thread about non-Calvinists not having a sound understanding of biblical interpretation. The idea that the Scripture interprets Scripture, for example. Or, that the implicit is to be understood in light of the explicit, etcetera. It becomes a lot easier when we apply the proper techniques.

Apply the "proper" technique to these passages and tell us why they don't mean what they say:

Romans 2
6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

1 Peter 1:17
Since you call on a Father who judges each person's work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear.

 

[SPF]

But that doesn't work, because it is ACCORDING to what they have done.

Romans 2:6 - He will render to each one according to his works...

Scripture interprets Scripture, right? Well, we know that Christians are saved on account of the merits of Jesus, not our own. Titus 3:5 - He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing and regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.

When looking at this passage, it is important to note that the apostles does not say that people will be rewarded for their deeds, but according (κατά) to their deeds.

The rewards of heaven will be according to their works; that is, they who have labored most, and been most faithful, shall receive the highest reward. (See Matthew 25:14-29). Thus, the ground or reason why they are saved shall be the merits of the Lord Jesus. The measure of their happiness shall be according to their character and deeds. On what principle God will distribute his rewards the apostle proceeds immediately to state.

 

[Thursday]

Romans 2:6 - He will render to each one according to his works...

Scripture interprets Scripture, right? Well, we know that Christians are saved on account of the merits of Jesus, not our own.

Not exactly. We can't be saved without grace, but that grace reaches out to all men. Those who cooperate with the grace of Jesus will be saved.

Matt 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.


and:

Romans 2
6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

1 Peter 1:17
Since you call on a Father who judges each person's work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear.

 

[SPF]

Not exactly. We can't be saved without grace, but that grace reaches out to all men.

Can you support that assertion Biblically?

Matt 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. The elect are the ones who will do the will of the Father.

Again, very easy to respond to.

 

[Thursday]

Can you support that assertion Biblically?

Again, very easy to respond to.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,


Very easy to respond to, but you don't do it.

The words are clear, but your man made dogma must muddy them.

 

[SPF]

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Yes, Jesus work on the cross made it possible for all people to be saved, but I think one thing we share in common is that we are not Universalists, so we know that while Christ's death on the cross was sufficient to save all men, not all men will be saved. It is only those that the Father has drawn towards them (John 6:44), and have been given the gift of faith (Ephesians 2:18) that will actually be saved.

Very easy to respond to, but you don't do it.

I did, it was in red.

The words are clear, but your man made dogma must muddy them.

Thursday, this isn't very irenic. If you're attempting to help me better understand Scripture, I recommend you try engaging with some civility in how you speak. Honestly, your insults are doing nothing but backfiring as every non-Catholic has got to be laughing when they see you write something like that.

 

[Thursday]

Yes, Jesus work on the cross made it possible for all people to be saved, but I think one thing we share in common is that we are not Universalists, so we know that while Christ's death on the cross was sufficient to save all men, not all men will be saved. It is only those that the Father has drawn towards them (John 6:44), and have been given the gift of faith (Ephesians 2:18) that will actually be saved.

I did, it was in red.

Thursday, this isn't very irenic. If you're attempting to help me better understand Scripture, I recommend you try engaging with some civility in how you speak. Honestly, your insults are doing nothing but backfiring as every non-Catholic has got to be laughing when they see you write something like that.

I provide scripture, you respond with man made dogma explaining why the scripture means something other than what it says.

God's grace has appeared to all men. We will be judged according to our actions.

A man reaps what he sows.

Biblical concepts that are an anathema to Calvinism.

 

[SPF]

I provide scripture, you respond with man made dogma explaining why the scripture means something other than what it says.

You do realize that every time you explain what a passage means you're engaging in man made interpretation. You're not free from this any more than anyone else is. Our goal is to do the best we can given the totality of Scripture to maintain a cohesive and consistent understanding of what it says.

God's grace has appeared to all men.

Your interpretation of the passage that this statement comes from is flawed. Calvinists would certainly agree that Christ's life, death, and resurrection made Salvation for all possible. But taking this further and somehow saying that God's grace has been applied to all men is not Biblical.

We will be judged according to our actions.

We sure will. The Bible talks about judgment. But our actions do not determine whether or not Christ forgives us. Salvation comes to us VIA grace, through faith, which is a gift. Not by works, so that no man may boast. If Salvation came by even one work of mine, I would have room to boast.

A man reaps what he sows.

You're absolutely right, and Calvinists agree. Those that sow according to the flesh will reap things of the flesh, and those that sow according to the Spirit will reap things of the Spirit.

 

[amariselle]

Exactly. This was part of the point I made in a different thread about non-Calvinists not having a sound understanding of biblical interpretation. The idea that the Scripture interprets Scripture, for example. Or, that the implicit is to be understood in light of the explicit, etcetera. It becomes a lot easier when we apply the proper techniques.

Interesting... "non-Calvinists" don't have "a sound understanding of Biblical interpretation?" ALL non-Calvinists?

That seems to be a pretty common argument from one group to another, basically, "we have the proper understanding and interpretation of Scripture, and you do not."

Most often there are misunderstandings and errors on BOTH sides of an issue.

And I'm not trying to be sarcastic or rude, but if the Calvinist doctrines of "Unconditional Election" and "Total Depravity" are in fact true, then is it really a non-Calvinist's fault that they apparently do not have a "sound understanding of Scripture"?

I mean, everything has been decided by God already right, and we have no free will or ability to seek God (including in His word).

I guess those who can understand Scripture must be the "elect", the rest of us are therefore lost.

 

[Albion]

And I'm not trying to be sarcastic or rude, but if the Calvinist doctrines of "Unconditional Election" and "Total Depravity" are in fact true, then is it really a non-Calvinist's fault that they apparently do not have a "sound understanding of Scripture"?

I mean, everything has been decided by God already right, and we have no free will or ability to seek God (including in His word).

Wrong. Election and Total Depravity do not mean that God has decided everything in advance.

 

[amariselle]

Wrong. Election and Total Depravity do not mean that God has decided everything in advance.

So we DO have free will and the ability to seek God and turn to Him?

 

[Albion]

So we DO have free will and the ability to seek God and turn to Him?

That conclusion certainly does NOT follow from what I said in the previous post.