Please Explain How these Passages are Consistent with Calvinism

[Albion]

Sounds just like we would expect a monk to talk, doesnt it?

 

[mark kennedy]

Thank you for the sermon, Reverend Mark!

Ouch! I was just trying to do a little exposition.

You just don't get it about me, do you? I have been living in a monastery (in utter poverty) for 21 years! I have given EVERYTHING I am, and everything I have to Jesus, as a free gift, without expecting ANYTHING back. Right now we are just 30 days from being thrown out of the building where we live. I am not in fear about it (well, maybe a little, but I have given the situation to God,) I am doing all that I can to address the issue, and if God wants us out of here, we'll leave. We'll end up on the streets, but I will still be praising Jesus. And if I die homeless, and God has not ELECTED me to get to heaven, then I will go to hell praising Jesus.

NOW do you understand?

I never presumed to know you, I was merely responding to a thought provoking post. I know what you mean about being on the brink, since 2012 I've been there twice, the last time about a year and a half ago after an operation. I'm not a minister but I did study, came within a few credits of a degree in Bible and Theology but my personal problems didn't allow me to finish. I come on here looking for Bible study, that's generally how I saw this discussion. What I was trying to point out is that there are things we can all agree on, it certainly wasn't trying to sermonize.

Did you think you were dealing with a neophyte? Did you think (when launching into that sermon) that I was some newbie in Christ? I am 66 years old. I was learning the Gospel (IN THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH) before you were born! Don't try your cookie cutter on me, because I will break out of the mold. Just like Jesus did when everybody was expecting a king, and he came as a suffering servant.

That was strictly intended as an exposition of some of the related texts, some insights I've picked up along the way, nothing more.

And DON'T expect God to do what you expect from your study of the Bible. God never does what we think He is supposed to do.

Well that much we can agree on, the Most High is Sovereign. I was just trying to point out some things Christians generally agree on and the Scriptures are pretty straight forward about. Like I say I come on here looking for an occasional Bible study and because of the high traffic it's nice to get different perspectives.

That wasn't meant to be a sermon, just tossing my two cents into a casual discussion.

 

[Phantasman]

Sounds just like we would expect a monk to talk, doesnt it?

ROTFL

I don't want to disparage anyone who loves Christ. I guess we each try to understand what our "crosses" are. I never viewed all physical things as evil. There those who abstain from many things, even doctors, blood transfusions, wine, Christmas, etc. If love of God is first, and love of neighbor is second, then we move into things we like or enjoy, as long as it doesn't conflict with love.

No disrespect intended.

 

[Monk Brendan]

That wasn't meant to be a sermon, just tossing my two cents into a casual discussion.

That was just a light stun on my phaser (grin) I am interested in Bible discussion too, but the doctrine must be orthodox. Calvin did not teach an orthodox faith. He limited God, and he limited God's election. God will not fit in any box. Try to do so, and he will break out of it! Nor can a mere man try to tell God who He will, or will not allow into heaven.

If, when I get to heaven (IF I get to heaven--I'm working out my salvation in fear and trembling as St Paul tells us in Phil 2:12) my next door neighbor is a Muslim, the guy on the other side of the street is a Jew, they ALL have come to heaven by the Grace of God, and I will praise God for it!

 

[Monk Brendan]

Sounds just like we would expect a monk to talk, doesnt it?

And you would know because...?

 

[Albion]

Because I know what actual monasticism means and entails.

 

[mark kennedy]

That was just a light stun on my phaser (grin) I am interested in Bible discussion too, but the doctrine must be orthodox. Calvin did not teach an orthodox faith. He limited God, and he limited God's election. God will not fit in any box. Try to do so, and he will break out of it! Nor can a mere man try to tell God who He will, or will not allow into heaven.

If, when I get to heaven (IF I get to heaven--I'm working out my salvation in fear and trembling as St Paul tells us in Phil 2:12) my next door neighbor is a Muslim, the guy on the other side of the street is a Jew, they ALL have come to heaven by the Grace of God, and I will praise God for it!

Well I believe God is in the business of saving people, the only people that can't be saved are the children of perdition. I think there is a time of decision when you hear and understand the gospel, it's a one time thing, as a result you are either born again or a child of perdition. Then of course there are a lot of other people involved in other religions who God judges on the last day. All I know about that is God reveals the secret motives, when I think about judgment day I always try to keep this verse in mind:

For concerning the righteousness that is by the Law, Moses writes: “The man who does these things will live by them.” But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down) or, ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” (Romans 10:5-7)​

It's one of those verses where Paul wants to quote the Septuagint and the translation in the English is awkward at best. I think what he is saying here given the context, is that asking who is going to heaven and hell is the wrong question. Faith hears and confesses the Word of God, the gospel and trusts God to judge righteously.

We know what people do, God knows why, even when it comes to our own heart sometimes. We are certainly called to submit to Christ in the fear of the Lord (Ephesians 5:21; Proverbs 1:7).

You kind of have me at a disadvantage since I never really had much use for systematic theology. I've studied them somewhat but I'm kind of eclectic about it. I don't think I would be a Christian if it wasn't for the Bible, I was under the impression early the Scriptures are something most, if not all Christians can agree on.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[redleghunter]

I think Jesus was a little more creative when explaining grace, we know the Prodigal returned with nothing but was forgiven, that one is easy. But when you look at the parable of the Pearl of Great Price and the field where a man found a treasure, in both cases it says they went out and sold all they had with great joy. Yes, justification by grace through faith is 'unmerited favor' but in order to receive it you have to surrender all.

Virtually everyone can agree that you must come under conviction of sin, no serious question about that. I don't think I would get much of an argument either way that repentance and justification are the first step in the sanctification process. Indeed there is nothing I can do to earn salvation, nothing I can give in exchange for my soul. Paul describes it this way, you are either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness (Romans 6). James tells us you must believe and not have doubts:

But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do. (James 1:6-8)
​

By the way, that's with regards to the prayer for the wisdom to do God's will. God's grace is the 'unmerited favor' that costs us everything, because with great joy we go out and sell all we have. We must make a choice to either serve sin as slave or righteousness as slaves, the only middle ground is being double minded and unstable in all our ways.

It could cost you worldly possessions as it did the church in Smyrna. You could be persecuted for righteousness sake, Jesus warns in the Beatitudes. But you should jump and shout and leap for joy because they persecuted the prophets who were before you in the same way.

Indeed we are saved by grace through faith, no Catholic, Orthodox or Arminian would dare deny that. We are sanctified by grace and as James tells us, if we don't know how to walk in the righteousness that is by faith we should ask God, who gives us all things in Christ. Grace saves, grace sanctifies, grace equips us for ministry, the very Greek word for gifts of the Holy Spirit, that builds the body of Christ is literally, 'grace'.

We go the extra mile, give asking nothing in return, turn the other check and forgive even as we are forgiven. Why should be be counted as sheep among wolves, strangers and aliens, fools for Christ's sake? We have the righteousness of God, rulers along with Christ in the heavenly realms.

Here's the thing and I know I'm given to rambling posts. Well before we can bear fruit the seed must die and be buried. When it springs up there are hazards, a hard unbelieving heart, persecution, the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches. But the promise of God is that should we receive the word and nurture it like a farmer carefully tends to his crops, it will bear fruit in abundance.

Indeed grace though faith is a free gift, but let us not neglect to warn that the price is, it will cost you everything. No easy believism here, just the promise that it's worth it.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Mark, that was beautiful man.

 

[redleghunter]

I have been living in a monastery (in utter poverty) for 21 years!

God Bless you!

When did the monastery get Wi-Fi?

 

[mark kennedy]

Mark, that was beautiful man.

Well thank you kindly, I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Monk Brendan]

I think there is a time of decision when you hear and understand the gospel, it's a one time thing, as a result you are either born again or a child of perdition.

No! God will give us many chances. Nor is He going to throw you in hell the first time you reject God.

 

[Monk Brendan]

When did the monastery get Wi-Fi?

It's not wi-fi, thank you. It is a cable modem. And we have had the internet for 18 years, now.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Because I know what actual monasticism means and entails.

Okay, you teach me, please.

You, yourself are married, and not a monk. But I'll wait for you to teach.

 

[redleghunter]

Okay, you teach me, please.

You, yourself are married, and not a monk. But I'll wait for you to teach.

What does "private" mean for marital status? I thought all Catholic orders were celibate.

 

[mark kennedy]

No! God will give us many chances. Nor is He going to throw you in hell the first time you reject God.

No that's not what I mean, of course anyone who truly repents can receive pardon. We stumble in many ways, I just believe that once you realize the person and work of Christ and you depart from it, and I do mean rejecting it, there is no more chance for repentance.

For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, (Hebrews 6:4-6)
​

This isn't talking about falling into carnality, committing a sin or otherwise backsliding. This is what I'm talking about when I say a time of decision. Here I think the falling away is a falling away from the faith, what some would call apostasy. Just as you can make a decision for Christ you can choose to reject him.

I remember this one preacher talking about if the Devil could walk down to this alter and repent he would do it in a minute. I remember laughing out loud, which was awkward because everyone else was taking him seriously. All I could think was no he wouldn't, he is never going to repent of anything. Judas was a child of perdition when Jesus called him, those Jesus condemned for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, they were children of perdition.

There's born again and there is perdition, both are one time events. Of course if you repent and turn to God in contrition he can forgive. The problem is the children of perdition have no intentions of doing anything of the sort.

 

[Monk Brendan]

What does "private" mean for marital status? I thought all Catholic orders were celibate.

Because, it's nobody's business. I am celibate. I just don't choose to advertise it. And Eastern Catholics don't follow the same practice of Benedictine, Augustinians, etc. We make our vows to God in front of the community, and not to a Vicar General or whatever.

 

[redleghunter]

Because, it's nobody's business. I am celibate. I just don't choose to advertise it. And Eastern Catholics don't follow the same practice of Benedictine, Augustinians, etc. We make our vows to God in front of the community, and not to a Vicar General or whatever.

Thank you for the clarification. I asked because "private" by the forum selection indicates an "alternate lifestyle" arrangement.

 

[mark kennedy]

Because, it's nobody's business. I am celibate. I just don't choose to advertise it. And Eastern Catholics don't follow the same practice of Benedictine, Augustinians, etc. We make our vows to God in front of the community, and not to a Vicar General or whatever.

I just noticed your religious affiliation, Melkite Catholic, that's a pretty impressive ecclesiastical tradition. Apparently it goes all the way back to Antioch, where the mission to the Gentiles began in earnest.

 

[ladodgers6]

Those under the law are not free to do good works. Their works are all self-serving;therfore, they are as filthy rags.

If I were trying to gain Heaven by giving my neighbor a cup of water then I am not giving the water to my neighbor. I am giving it to myself.

Unless one is saved by grace, he cannot please God, nor love neighbor.

Being freed from our bondage to sin. We need a divine act to save us. Because cannot save ourselves. They think that Classical Calvinism does not demonstrate "love, charity,". And this is a misunderstanding & caricature of what we believe and why we believe it. They think people are born with the abilities to walk in righteousness & holiness. We lost that in Adam.

Even they believe that all are born in Adam's death. So why they do not understand us, is beyond me. They seem to me, they are borderline Gnostic. Thinking people can reach God through self effort. That we can ascend to God, instead of believing that God descends to us in Christ!

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Being freed from our bondage to sin. We need a divine act to save us. Because cannot save ourselves. They think that Classical Calvinism does not demonstrate "love, charity,". And this is a misunderstanding & caricature of what we believe and why we believe it. They think people are born with the abilities to walk in righteousness & holiness. We lost that in Adam.

Even they believe that all are born in Adam's death. So why they do not understand us, is beyond me. They seem to me, they are borderline Gnostic. Thinking people can reach God through self effort. That we can ascend to God, instead of believing that God descends to us in Christ!

At the end of the day, it's human pride. Coming to understand and accept God's sovereignty in election is utterly humbling.