People in Heaven?

[christiangal522]

I've been thinking about this a lot.

Is there anyone in heaven right now or are they waiting until Christ's return?

I hear people say "they are looking down on me from above" and "so and so is in heaven now" but I dont think I agree.

The way I have read Scripture is that there are few, if any, besides Christ, that are in Heaven.

"For this we declare to you by the word of The Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of The Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.For The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

What do you think??

 

[Zadok7000]

I've been thinking about this a lot.

Is there anyone in heaven right now or are they waiting until Christ's return?

They are there now.

Eccl 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Matt 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mark 12:27
He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Luke 20:38
For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

 

[JesusFreak4L]

They are there now.

Eccl 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Matt 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mark 12:27
He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Luke 20:38
For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

i totally agree with you!! God Bless!

 

[christiangal522]

They are there now.

Eccl 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Matt 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mark 12:27
He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Luke 20:38
For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Those verses dont refer to 'death' of the body so I wouldnt use those to defend people being in heaven.

The verse from the New Testament are not about literal life vs. death. God is the God of the living meaning he is the God of his followers. The dead are those who live in sin and reject God. That does not refer to heaven. The Living are Believers and the Dead are Non-Believers so I wouldnt use those texts.

The Ecc. text does not state whether it is immediately following death or later.

What do you make of 1 Thess 4:15-17? See, if I first read this it tells me: people were in Heaven already then why does Paul say that the dead in Christ will rise first?

After I posted this, I looked at a commentary writer's view that what Paul is refering to is those who died BEFORE Christ was resurrected. This seems to make more sense to me.

 

[icedtea]

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

 

[Barraco]

If we go to heaven after we die, then what would be the point in a resurrection?

And about the spirit returning to the LORD: That spirit is translated from the words meaning 'life' or 'breath.' If you read the whole thing in context, the LORD breathed life (spirit) into the man, and THEN the man became a soul. So when the man dies, he ceases to be a soul until the LORD breathes that spirit of life into the man.

 

[icedtea]

The point of a ressurection then would be a bodily resurrection.
Jesus is the firstborn with a resurrected body. Us saints will have one eventually.

 

[repentant]

We go to a taste of what is to come. If you are going to heaven, you will be in a peaceful place. If you're going to hell, you will be getting a taste of your suffering.

 

[DeaconDean]

Depending on whether they are saved or not and depending on what their destination is, yes, there are saved in Paradise now. What did Jesus teach?

"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." -Mt. 22:32

Because we die, does mean He is no longer our God?

Heaven forbid.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[repentant]

Depending on whether they are saved or not and depending on what their destination is, yes, there are saved in Paradise now. What did Jesus teach?

"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." -Mt. 22:32

Because we die, does mean He is no longer our God?

Heaven forbid.

God Bless

Till all are one.

DeaconDean I had to chuckle at your character. I can picture the Marines going town to town in Iraq carrying a repent sign. I don't know, just brought me a laugh, and a funny picture to my head. Too bad that's not what they do...

 

[christiangal522]

Depending on whether they are saved or not and depending on what their destination is, yes, there are saved in Paradise now. What did Jesus teach?

"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." -Mt. 22:32

Because we die, does mean He is no longer our God?

Heaven forbid.

God Bless

Till all are one.

As I said earlier, you have to be careful how you take verses out of context (I am seminary trained in this so trust me on this one). This verse is not referring to what I am talking about. Read my previous response about this text. It's not talking about physical death or life. (Read my previous post, i dont want to repost it)

Also, you all are referring to a resurrection. Our Bodies will be resurrected, not just our Spirit.

 

[Barraco]

We go to a taste of what is to come. If you are going to heaven, you will be in a peaceful place. If you're going to hell, you will be getting a taste of your suffering.

But Lazarus didn't go to heaven. Neither did the little girl. None that were dead has ascended to heaven. So, according to the Bible's accounts, how can it be that the dead go up to heaven? Its not Biblical that the soul is a seperate entity from the body. The soul is the body with the breath of life in it. This concept was construed when the Hellenized Jews took Christianity, incorporated their gnostic teachings, and gave it back to the churches. Every living thing is a soul. A dead man is just a dead body that SLEEPS until the breath of life is breathed back into it. David went to sleep with his fathers. So did Solomon.
It would not make sense or seem fair that a man should go to heaven only to watch the suffering of his brothers. And it would not be righteous to punish a man and THEN judge him. Would not the judgement come BEFORE the punishment. Again, hell was turned from the grave into a fiery pit for the unrighteous souls by the gnostic teachings of the hellenized Jews; the same Jews that forsook the Law to partake in pagan practices under the encouragement of the Syrio-Grecian Antiochus Epiphanes. So my opinion goes out to those that read this: There is no inner man. God bless


p.s. If you want a better way to look at this:
Eternal Life comes only from God. Those that reject God also reject the eternal life. So the righteous consequence of those that seperate themselves from the God of everlasting life is that they die an everlasting death; never to live again.

 

[Zadok7000]

Those verses dont refer to 'death' of the body so I wouldnt use those to defend people being in heaven.

The verse from the New Testament are not about literal life vs. death. God is the God of the living meaning he is the God of his followers. The dead are those who live in sin and reject God. That does not refer to heaven. The Living are Believers and the Dead are Non-Believers so I wouldnt use those texts.

Oh????
Keep them in context:
But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Where those men alive in the flesh while Jesus spoke?
Of course not. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are ALIVE and WITH HIM. Are you talking about the 2 sides of the Gulf in the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man?? Point is, nobody is lying in a hole in the ground.

The Ecc. text does not state whether it is immediately following death or later.

Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Study the preceeding verse in Eccl. 12:
Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

"or ever" = Hebrew "lo" =not, no, none, nay, never, neither, ere, otherwise, before = an adverb of negation.
IE you can't have one without the other. IE as soon as the flesh dies, the spirit returns to God. No delays.

What do you make of 1 Thess 4:15-17? See, if I first read this it tells me: people were in Heaven already then why does Paul say that the dead in Christ will rise first?

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Don't be thrown off by the English. The Greek of "shall not prevent" = "shall not preceed". Those who are in the flesh when HE returns cannot preceed them because they are already there. Those "asleep/dead in Christ" are ALREADY RISEN. Example: The saints are in heaven at the time of the 5th seal (Rev. 6:9-11) and this is not counting the ones to be killed during the tribulation.
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

[christiangal522]

But Lazarus didn't go to heaven. Neither did the little girl. None that were dead has ascended to heaven. So, according to the Bible's accounts, how can it be that the dead go up to heaven? Its not Biblical that the soul is a seperate entity from the body. The soul is the body with the breath of life in it. This concept was construed when the Hellenized Jews took Christianity, incorporated their gnostic teachings, and gave it back to the churches. Every living thing is a soul. A dead man is just a dead body that SLEEPS until the breath of life is breathed back into it. David went to sleep with his fathers. So did Solomon.
It would not make sense or seem fair that a man should go to heaven only to watch the suffering of his brothers. And it would not be righteous to punish a man and THEN judge him. Would not the judgement come BEFORE the punishment. Again, hell was turned from the grave into a fiery pit for the unrighteous souls by the gnostic teachings of the hellenized Jews; the same Jews that forsook the Law to partake in pagan practices under the encouragement of the Syrio-Grecian Antiochus Epiphanes. So my opinion goes out to those that read this: There is no inner man. God bless


p.s. If you want a better way to look at this:
Eternal Life comes only from God. Those that reject God also reject the eternal life. So the righteous consequence of those that seperate themselves from the God of everlasting life is that they die an everlasting death; never to live again.

I agree with you completely!!! - The body and the soul are NOT separate!!! After all, in the resurrection our bodies will be RESTORED. Also, too, if people are in heaven already and judgment is at a different point, how'd they get in without judgement??
That, too, was point when they refer to 'dead' and 'alive' in Scriptures - it's about rejecting or accepting Christ, not always about simply physical death/life.

 

[ikester]

well...Moses and Elias appeared with Christ.....

 

[repentant]

But Lazarus didn't go to heaven. Neither did the little girl. None that were dead has ascended to heaven. So, according to the Bible's accounts, how can it be that the dead go up to heaven? Its not Biblical that the soul is a seperate entity from the body. The soul is the body with the breath of life in it. This concept was construed when the Hellenized Jews took Christianity, incorporated their gnostic teachings, and gave it back to the churches. Every living thing is a soul. A dead man is just a dead body that SLEEPS until the breath of life is breathed back into it. David went to sleep with his fathers. So did Solomon.
It would not make sense or seem fair that a man should go to heaven only to watch the suffering of his brothers. And it would not be righteous to punish a man and THEN judge him. Would not the judgement come BEFORE the punishment. Again, hell was turned from the grave into a fiery pit for the unrighteous souls by the gnostic teachings of the hellenized Jews; the same Jews that forsook the Law to partake in pagan practices under the encouragement of the Syrio-Grecian Antiochus Epiphanes. So my opinion goes out to those that read this: There is no inner man. God bless


p.s. If you want a better way to look at this:
Eternal Life comes only from God. Those that reject God also reject the eternal life. So the righteous consequence of those that seperate themselves from the God of everlasting life is that they die an everlasting death; never to live again.

Who said anything about anyone going to heaven? Or hell for that matter. I said we get a little foretaste of what is to come.

And I don't know where you get your info from, but soul sleep is a gnostic teaching, and the story of Lazarus and the rich man, which you mentioned, is a perfect example given by Christ that this gnostic teaching is not true.

And last time I checked, there are 2 judgments. The personal judgement immediatly after death, and then the final general judgement at the end of the world, after the ressurection. So why does it not make sense to get a foretaste of your future punishment, after death, and after you are judged the first time?

Soul sleep is a gnositic teaching, and was never tought by ANY of the early Church Father's. There is way to much evidence to the contrary in Scripture, not only the story of Lazarus, but also in Revelations.

 

[JesusServant]

They are there now.

Eccl 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Matt 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mark 12:27
He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Luke 20:38
For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

And to add to this because zadok already answered correctly...

Once we die we leave this flesh/body behind. Class? Where did Jesus condemn sin for ALL TIME?

 

[Peterthepebble]

Hello,
New to this forum. I have read your posts with interest. If we are talking about whether you have a soul that goes to heaven when you die, well how about Enoch in Genesis 5:24 it says "and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him". Also in 2 KIngs 2:11 it says "And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, which parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven".
Are these people in heaven or paradise? Are they physically in heaven?

 

[Mark2010]

I agree with you completely!!! - The body and the soul are NOT separate!!! After all, in the resurrection our bodies will be RESTORED. Also, too, if people are in heaven already and judgment is at a different point, how'd they get in without judgement??
That, too, was point when they refer to 'dead' and 'alive' in Scriptures - it's about rejecting or accepting Christ, not always about simply physical death/life.

If one goes to heaven when he/she dies, what need would there be of a body?

 

[icedtea]

Jesus has a resurrected body. We will get ours too.