Pentecostal/Charismatic: Q&A's

[Biblicist]

Would there be any interest from the regular forum members with requesting that a Pentecostal/Charismatic Q&A forum be established so that both serious enquirers and even the odd hardcore cessationist who wants to vent his rationalist worldview can be free to do so.

This would not only allow those more traditional members to gain a bit of information regarding the things of the Spirit but it would also provide the hardcore cessationist with a safe forum where they can engage with the more experienced Continuists.

 

[Josie Adams]

Sounds like a great idea to me!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Would there be any interest from the regular forum members with requesting that a Pentecostal/Charismatic Q&A forum be established so that both serious enquirers and even the odd hardcore cessationist who wants to vent his rationalist worldview can be free to do so.

This would not only allow those more traditional members to gain a bit of information regarding the things of the Spirit but it would also provide the hardcore cessationist with a safe forum where they can engage with the more experienced Continuists.

That sounds in continuity with the church as a growing organism . and i'd also be interested in participating in that .

 

[lismore]

Hello Biblicist

It sounds like a laudable idea. Good.

But just one problem I can see. On this forum, we can't even agree on how to be saved. If we can't agree on the core issue how can we agree on other things? If a seeker after the gifts came and asked a question he would receive a bewildering array of views and the thread would soon turn into a debate.

God Bless You

 

[Biblicist]

Hello Biblicist

It sounds like a laudable idea. Good.

But just one problem I can see. On this forum, we can't even agree on how to be saved. If we can't agree on the core issue how can we agree on other things? If a seeker after the gifts came and asked a question he would receive a bewildering array of views and the thread would soon turn into a debate.

God Bless You

Yes, I can well imagine the array of questions that would be posted from our cessationist friends over on the more traditional forums but I wonder how many on this side of the fence would be prepared or experienced enough to provide well researched replies. I would like to see a Pentecostal/Charismatic Q&A thread being primarily for those who are neither Pentecostal or charismatic where they are free to challenge or to ask questions regarding our core distinctives, providing of course that they do so in a respectful manner.

If you look at the General Theology threads, at times there almost seems to be as many opinions on a given matter as there are replies to a thread, so if this does (and it will) occur on a Q&A thread then I would expect that it would help us to raise our own theological standards where we will at times all be forced to seriously reconsider some of our treasured opinions.

For those who feel confident enough to provide some serious answers to the following questions then they should be ready and able to jump in as required:

• [FONT=&quot]Are tongues and prophecy for today[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Is the Baptism in the Holy Spirit one of subsequence or is it soteriological[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]How many Manifestations of the Spirit (aka, spiritual gifts) are there[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Are tongues spoken in previously unlearned human languages or of angels[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Can tongues be used to speak to the unsaved[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Does the Holy Spirit speak to man in tongues[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Does tongues + interpretation = prophecy[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]What do cessationists mean (or think they mean) when they use the term “sign gifts”[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Do the distinctive teachings of the wof movement reflect solid Pneumatic theology[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]On the Day of Pentecost, did the 120 speak in known human languages or did the unregenerate Jews receive a 'miracle' of understanding
  [/FONT]

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Would there be any interest from the regular forum members with requesting that a Pentecostal/Charismatic Q&A forum be established so that both serious enquirers and even the odd hardcore cessationist who wants to vent his rationalist worldview can be free to do so.

This would not only allow those more traditional members to gain a bit of information regarding the things of the Spirit but it would also provide the hardcore cessationist with a safe forum where they can engage with the more experienced Continuists.

I think this is a great idea. How would you however control the posters (those who reply)? Because people are adament about their views when it comes to the Holy Spirit.

I don't see how it would be prevented that it would become a big flaming thread. How would that logistically be handled.

I'm not raining on the parade, I do like the idea.

 

[Biblicist]

I think this is a great idea. How would you however control the posters (those who reply)? Because people are adament about their views when it comes to the Holy Spirit.

I don't see how it would be prevented that it would become a big flaming thread. How would that logistically be handled.

I'm not raining on the parade, I do like the idea.

Your questions are certainly valid and we only have to take a look at the General and Traditional theology threads to see that it is rare to see a coherent flow. There have been a few threads in the GT forum that have caught my interest but some of them even after 20 or 30 posts have in my opinion produced little if any worthwhile material. There are always threads where the majority of replies will be of little value but we often come across some posts that can be very helpful.

So what happens when a traditionalist or an unsaved poster asks the question, “Does the Holy Spirit speak to individuals through tongues where someone subsequently interprets the message”; of course I would say that the Holy Spirit will never operate in this manner as he will always, absolutely always, direct his words of praise and adoration to the Father. Now others will say that he does speak words of instruction, admonition and encouragement so it is not only up to the OP to work out which position is correct but those who reply to their questions will often be challenged to reconsider or adjust their views.

As to flaming, this is common enough in the General theology forums and I would think that the regular Pentecostal/charismatic forum posters would have to develop a degree of understanding and patience when it comes to the attitudes of many traditionalists as many of them probably have had very little exposure to the person and ministry of the Holy Spirit.

As this particular forum in my opinion is a bit tame, I would imagine that for those regular forum members who would want to seriously engage with those who are at a bit of a loss regarding “spiritual matters” (1Cor 12:1) then I would expect to see our knowledge grow as we are individually challenged to dig further into the Scriptures.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Your questions are certainly valid and we only have to take a look at the General and Traditional theology threads to see that it is rare to see a coherent flow. There have been a few threads in the GT forum that have caught my interest but some of them even after 20 or 30 posts have in my opinion produced little if any worthwhile material. There are always threads where the majority of replies will be of little value but we often come across some posts that can be very helpful.

So what happens when a traditionalist or an unsaved poster asks the question, “Does the Holy Spirit speak to individuals through tongues where someone subsequently interprets the message”; of course I would say that the Holy Spirit will never operate in this manner as he will always, absolutely always, direct his words of praise and adoration to the Father. Now others will say that he does speak words of instruction, admonition and encouragement so it is not only up to the OP to work out which position is correct but those who reply to their questions will often be challenged to reconsider or adjust their views.

As to flaming, this is common enough in the General theology forums and I would think that the regular Pentecostal/charismatic forum posters would have to develop a degree of understanding and patience when it comes to the attitudes of many traditionalists as many of them probably have had very little exposure to the person and ministry of the Holy Spirit.

As this particular forum in my opinion is a bit tame, I would imagine that for those regular forum members who would want to seriously engage with those who are at a bit of a loss regarding “spiritual matters” (1Cor 12:1) then I would expect to see our knowledge grow as we are individually challenged to dig further into the Scriptures.

I see this forum as challenged.

Now, I see what you are saying about the general theology and traditional theology, but I see it quite differently.

Anyone can post on those sub forums. That could be a Catholic, a Spirit Filled and someone without any real church affiliation. I see those sub forums as having a dividing element of the entire Christian religion.

This forum I see that most of our views are the same in THEORY, but it still get's very heated.

So I 'expect' that there will be great contrasts in beliefs. Here however I don't think we have that many, but it sure divides us. So, I don't see that there will be concensus, nor do I think that without constraints it will be successful.

Just my opinion though, but I think it's very valid.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Also, this forum seems to have many 'mature', more judgemental people who are of the opinion that you are not a 'real' Christian unless you are like them. The church is in the toilet, all Christians are this or that, all the church is this or that.

Why do we want to spread that to others? Is bad enough that it fills this forum.

I think it's not going to work and be more of a detrament to visitors than a blessing. It can and has been a depressing here for many people as well as bad behavior chasing away so many new people.

And that's not even mentioning the sin and loose your salvation type of threads. Eeek

 

[Biblicist]

I see this forum as challenged.

Now, I see what you are saying about the general theology and traditional theology, but I see it quite differently.

Anyone can post on those sub forums. That could be a Catholic, a Spirit Filled and someone without any real church affiliation. I see those sub forums as having a dividing element of the entire Christian religion.

This forum I see that most of our views are the same in THEORY, but it still get's very heated.

So I 'expect' that there will be great contrasts in beliefs. Here however I don't think we have that many, but it sure divides us. So, I don't see that there will be concensus, nor do I think that without constraints it will be successful.

Just my opinion though, but I think it's very valid.

In general, I’m not all that convinced that open forums are the best way to communicate to each other or to even share our understanding of the Scriptures; unlike a published book, they lack the peer-review process that these authors are able to obtain before they publish their material. As there are reportedly anywhere between 300-500 million Pentecostals and charismatics, this is probably now the only viable public forum that remains where we can express our views and share our thoughts which could be a reflection of the limitations of open forums.

As the Pentecostal/charismatic forum only permits non Pentecostals and charismatics to ask questions where they are not permitted to challenge our views, I feel that a sub-forum that allows them to both ask questions and to even openly challenge Full Gospel theology will not only help to better educate the traditionalist/cessationist but most importantly it will allow those who want to develop their apologetic skills to gain some experience with doing so.

As for “contrasts in belief”, this will certainly be the case as it is with the other forums but what a wonderful opportunity it would be for the regular forum members to enhance their knowledge and skills. In fact, you only have to open up a good contemporary commentary to see where even the ‘best of the best’ of our scholars will regularly disagree with each other but by discussing their differences we gain from the benefit of their interactions.

A good example of commentaries that discuss the varying opinions within the theological world is with Anthony C. Thiseltons 1400+ page work on First Corinthians and with Craig Keener’s four volume work on Acts. Thiseltons material on 1Cor 12:2-3 has proven to be interesting where he initially provided the opinions of 12 or 13 scholars where he mentioned that he was inclined to lean to one particular opinion in general. After he released his book Bruce Winter released some important research on this passage where in Thiselton’s shorter book on First Corinthians that he released in 2005 he said that he was intrigued with Winter’s work and that it had promise. Anyway, by 2013 where Thiselton had released his important work regarding the Holy Spirit, Thiselton said that he was now convinced that Winter was correct.

So it’s great to be able to see how well respected scholars can change their opinion and if they can do this then why shouldn’t we be able to do similar.

Moderation?

Now I grant that this could be a problem as I'm only aware of there being a single Full Gospel moderator where policy excludes him from moderating threads that he regularly moves within, so how would we prohibit bloggers who try to present Oneness Pentecostal teaching? But I wonder if an exception could be made for a Q&A forum where these things could be pointed out as I'm not all that convinced that the regular moderators (no offence to anyone) would be theologically equipped to handle as Paul said, the "spiritual matters" (1Cor 12:1).

 

[Biblicist]

Also, this forum seems to have many 'mature', more judgemental people who are of the opinion that you are not a 'real' Christian unless you are like them. The church is in the toilet, all Christians are this or that, all the church is this or that.

Why do we want to spread that to others? Is bad enough that it fills this forum.

I think it's not going to work and be more of a detrament to visitors than a blessing. It can and has been a depressing here for many people as well as bad behavior chasing away so many new people.

And that's not even mentioning the sin and loose your salvation type of threads. Eeek

As the main Pentecostal/charismatic forum stands, I'm not all that sure that it all that useful for the cessationist/traditionalist, so a forum that is designed to allow them to ask serious questions or to even challenge Full Gospel theology should serve them well.

But I agree, a Q&A forum would not be a fellowship thread by any means but it would undoubtedly attract the more experienced Pentecostal/charismatic who would value engaging in this manner, whereas at the moment, they might pass the forum by as it can be easily deemed as being a bit tame.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

As the main Pentecostal/charismatic forum stands, I'm not all that sure that it all that useful for the cessationist/traditionalist, so a forum that is designed to allow them to ask serious questions or to even challenge Full Gospel theology should serve them well.

But I agree, a Q&A forum would not be a fellowship thread by any means but it would undoubtedly attract the more experienced Pentecostal/charismatic who would value engaging in this manner, whereas at the moment, they might pass the forum by as it can be easily deemed as being a bit tame.

Well, it's not going to happen. We were the first to get the new rules because of all the reporting and we took all the mods time.

They will not grant us another forum to do a Q & A on the Spirit. We may have out done ourselves with the bickering.

Maybe that's what the teaching threads are for. lol. You can lure them here to a teaching thread.

 

[Biblicist]

Well, it's not going to happen. We were the first to get the new rules because of all the reporting and we took all the mods time.

They will not grant us another forum to do a Q & A on the Spirit. We may have out done ourselves with the bickering.

Maybe that's what the teaching threads are for. lol. You can lure them here to a teaching thread.

Yes, you've made some valid points which could indeed be a problem. The limitation of a teaching thread is that a cessationist/traditionalist cannot start one of these and they probably wouldn't be the best way to initiate a discussion. Could you imagine a teaching thread titled, "Why the gifts of the Spirit ceased with the death of the last Apostle".

Overall, your views could very well be a good reason why a Q&A sub-forum might not work and as I mentioned previously, open forums in general are limited with what they can do where a website such as CF might not be able to accommodate a Q&A forum?

 

[Biblicist]

As we encounter some interesting threads that are started by cessationists where at times they can become interesting, a Q&A sub forum would allow these type of threads to be transferred over. We had a thread last week which was started by a cessationist and after a few hours of interesting discussion the thread was deleted - which was extremely annoying!

 

[musicalpilgrim]

Quote
"[FONT=&quot]Is the Baptism in the Holy Spirit one of subsequence or is it soteriological"

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I would be interested in an answer to this question; I know of a number of fellow Christians, obviously saved, who love the Lord and yet do not display the signs of the baptism of the [FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit, why are they not baptised with the Spirit[FONT=&quot]?[/FONT]

It has been a long time since I have been in a charismatic church, or been involved in the charismatic scene...so can someone explain this please?[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[Optimax]

Would there be any interest from the regular forum members with requesting that a Pentecostal/Charismatic Q&A forum be established so that both serious enquirers and even the odd hardcore cessationist who wants to vent his rationalist worldview can be free to do so.

This would not only allow those more traditional members to gain a bit of information regarding the things of the Spirit but it would also provide the hardcore cessationist with a safe forum where they can engage with the more experienced Continuists.

Perhaps your questions could be properly dealt with as a formal debate.

 

[Alithis]

Would there be any interest from the regular forum members with requesting that a Pentecostal/Charismatic Q&A forum be established so that both serious enquirers and even the odd hardcore cessationist who wants to vent his rationalist worldview can be free to do so.

This would not only allow those more traditional members to gain a bit of information regarding the things of the Spirit but it would also provide the hardcore cessationist with a safe forum where they can engage with the more experienced Continuists.

Hi Biblicist

iv sent a note and link upstairs for you.. just to let them know of the idea .

 

[Biblicist]

Hi Biblicist

iv sent a note and link upstairs for you.. just to let them know of the idea .

Thanks for that.

As I’ve already mentioned, about a week ago a thread was started by a cessationist which I grant was against forum rules but after a few posts the thread in my opinion started to become rather interesting as I’ve found that some of these threads can turn themselves around where the OP might actually get something out of their questions – and then it was deleted, which got me thinking.

As there are undoubtedly many people whose only exposure to the Full Gospel would be via a forum such as this, this could be a good opportunity for people to engage with us where we each understand that there may be a ‘slightly’ more elevated level of discussion where an extra degree of grace may be required by all.

If we could maybe restart the “Spirit Filled / Charismatic Debate” forum where we could archive the existing threads under a sticky heading this might make things reasonably simple. Ideally, after a period of time this type of thread might be able to attract the more experienced Pentecostals and charismatics who may relish an opportunity to engage with those who may be either inquisitive or dare I say even hostile toward the Full Gospel. Even though I view cessationism and theology as being something of a conundrum, where the two are at opposite poles, I know that I would value engaging with a hardcore cessationist as I am convinced that anyone who is open to both the Spirit and the Word will eventually embrace the fullness of both God’s Word and with his Spirit.

The existing thread could possibly be renamed along the line of “Spirit Filled / Charismatic Debate (for enquirers only)”; I was going to say “for cessationists” but that might only confuse those cessationists who don’t realise that they are in fact cessationists.

 

[Biblicist]

Perhaps your questions could be properly dealt with as a formal debate.

The questions that I posted earlier were merely a quick sample of the types of questions that cessationists often ask and if we can provide them with a sub-forum where they can ask what they want then I would imagine that almost every question under the sun would be up for grabs.

At this point of time the Pentecostal/Charismatic forum does not seem to be all that friendly or accommodating for those who are cessationist/traditionalists where there are still many people out there who for some strange reason have never had the opportunity to encounter Full Gospel theology within their own circles; which I grant in this day and age this does seem a bit odd.

So when a cessationist asks the question “Why do Pentecostals have so many fake ministries”, how are we to respond? Of course we can easily make the same claim about cessationist ministries but this could be akin to comparing a 500 Kg bomb with a firecracker but of course this might not be the best approach to take, at least not with the words that I have just used.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Would there be any interest from the regular forum members with requesting that a Pentecostal/Charismatic Q&A forum be established so that both serious enquirers and even the odd hardcore cessationist who wants to vent his rationalist worldview can be free to do so.

This would not only allow those more traditional members to gain a bit of information regarding the things of the Spirit but it would also provide the hardcore cessationist with a safe forum where they can engage with the more experienced Continuists.

There already WERE two forums for that sort of discussion which were apparently considered unnecessary, and are now DEAD and "Read only".

SO why add another one that the "Management" doesn't think to feel a need for?????